35" tyres on landcrusier (6 Viewers)

[Fireguy]

The 100 series forum is the most confusing forum for someone who is thinking about buying a 100 and trying to do research. Seems like you always have the same one guy claiming something, and ten other guys, some who are considered industry experts saying the exact opposite.

If we bump up to a 100, I'd like to run 35's to get the maximum clearance I can due to some of the rocky trails I like to run. One guy says no need for a bodylift and posts the same pics over and over, another member who obviously uses his 100 A LOT offroad says it really helps.

One guy says no spacers needed, yet it seems like the majority of members on this forum running 35's say that yes, you do in fact need spacers.

From what I gather, for a mix of expedition use such as high speed desert, dirt road, truck loaded full of gear, mixed in with slow speed rocks, I will probably need a body lift and spacers unless I want to do with some serious rubbing. Am I wrong in assuming this? I can deal with a bit of rubbing, but rubbing ruins expensive $300 offroad tires. Or am I to believe that just setting the front end to 2.75" will allow me to run 35's?

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Hilarious! Good luck with your build!

 

[spressomon]

The 100 series forum is the most confusing forum for someone who is thinking about buying a 100 and trying to do research. Seems like you always have the same one guy claiming something, and ten other guys, some who are considered industry experts saying the exact opposite.

If we bump up to a 100, I'd like to run 35's to get the maximum clearance I can due to some of the rocky trails I like to run. One guy says no need for a bodylift and posts the same pics over and over, another member who obviously uses his 100 A LOT offroad says it really helps.

One guy says no spacers needed, yet it seems like the majority of members on this forum running 35's say that yes, you do in fact need spacers.

From what I gather, for a mix of expedition use such as high speed desert, dirt road, truck loaded full of gear, mixed in with slow speed rocks, I will probably need a body lift and spacers unless I want to do with some serious rubbing. Am I wrong in assuming this? I can deal with a bit of rubbing, but rubbing ruins expensive $300 offroad tires. Or am I to believe that just setting the front end to 2.75" will allow me to run 35's?

Well without starting a war of words the real issue is taking the 100 platform to the ragged edge of what it really wasn't designed to do. 2.75" is really the max you can raise the front of a 100 Series; some (me included) would argue 2.5" is really the max height when considering any negative effect on steering and/or CV angles or suspension (caster, wheel to wheel track width, steering component geometry, etc.). If some of us could get an honest 3"-3.5" of front lift WITHOUT inducing all the downsides some of us have to accept even at 2.75" there would be alot more modding and use of this platform by/within the off-road world!

The 80, for comparison, has a much larger window for lift height. So to squeeze every last bit of performance and/or lift out of the 100 Series platform you really are talking about a lot of little details. Some of these details never come into question or realization based upon the individual's application; some do as in my situation.

I've tried to relay what and why I have done to my rig as not everyone...in fact most everyone...isn't going to drive where and how I do and wouldn't ever realize some of the benefits (and also shortcomings) of the mods I have performed.

And piggybacking on that last statement you have to realize for every mod gain there is a negative somewhere in the equation/teeter-totter. The closer you get to the absolute limit, in this example the 100-Series front lift height, the smaller the performance gains to be had and bigger the downside potential in other areas.

Christo advised me a long time ago the path I have chosen for my mods on my 100 were going to come at a price. And he was 100% correct. The major limitation for some of us centers around the lack of front lift height potential...there are many compromises to consider.

BTW: The one mod I think all of us running 35" tires would agree on is pounding/folding & pounding that body seam at the bottom are of the rear side of the front inner fender wall. You will need to do this OR you WILL snag your tire into this body panel seam. Its easy: Large adustable type wrench (12-14" "Crescent" wrench), large hammer and a sharp utility knife to cut the inner plastic fender liner bulge away at this interfering seam location.

 

[Fireguy]

Hilarious! Good luck with your build!

Very helpful post.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Very helpful post.

It's obvious based on several posts that you favor the opinions of others on the board. That's fine, nothing personal, no reason to ask why. They can assist you in building your rig just fine.

I was just laughing at your comments about me vs experts. I had a lift on, a home made diff drop (the design was later given to Slee), 35's, an ARB bumper, winch, etc 9-years ago before any of these experts ever wheeled in a 100. Hell, Slee didn't even sell 100 gear then. That doesn't make smarter than your experts. I'm not bragging. On the contrary...I think most of them way outsmart me especially on the technical side. I have huge seat time though and have worked through every obstacle possible to address Roklimo's 4-wheeling issues. Slee and other experts have since assisted me very well along the way. I've learned a lot. You will as well from whomever you decide to listen too.

So again...good luck with your build!

Oh, and to add to tech and/or address your question about running 35's on the 100? Regardless of whether or not the front wheel is compressing 100% and who is rubbing the fender, and AHC vs non-AHC, and body lift vs bump stop adjust.....blah blah....

Roklimo easily out RTI's on a 20* ramp and articulates more in the real world than the other 100's on the forum (unless they have followed my mods or have a SFA). That is WITHOUT body lifts and/or front bump stop adjusts, or tearing up tires from bad rubbing. That's my way and it's worked for 160,000 miles and over 100+ trail trips. Others do things their way as they have different requirements.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

And piggybacking on that last statement you have to realize for every mod gain there is a negative somewhere in the equation/teeter-totter.

It's funny you bring this up. It's one of the reasons I was fine moving from the 80 to the 100. With my 80 I was constantly making adjustment - slightly taller springs, adjustable control arms, etc. One mod would necessitate another and another.

With the 100 there's a relative "limit" to what you can do. It keeps me from constantly making changes to the truck and instead driving it more.

 

[OGBeno]

It's funny you bring this up. It's one of the reasons I was fine moving from the 80 to the 100. With my 80 I was constantly making adjustment - slightly taller springs, adjustable control arms, etc. One mod would necessitate another and another.

With the 100 there's a relative "limit" to what you can do. It keeps me from constantly making changes to the truck and instead driving it more.

Dude....just be honest.....you got sick of getting up and down from under the rig.

old man....

 

[dclee]

This is real simple. Take the pic below. I am compressed, I have full suspension travel, My 35 does NOT hit the fender now or if I turn in either direction.

Wow, I don't read this thread for a day, and here we go again! Did someone flunk Physics 101? The lift of the vehicle with independent suspension (important point) has NOTHING to do with affecting the limits of travel or whether a wheel will touch the fender under full compression. All it does is change the starting point of the suspension stroke. The stroke itself is the same. The only way to alleviate this is to alter the stroke (move the mounting points of the suspension links), or change the limiters (bump stops, shock length).

Now, for a solid axle, John's point might be correct in certain scenarios, which is another reason I am such a fan of solid axles on off-road vehicles!

 

[sleeoffroad]

Whether or not you are on the bumpstop here I can not say since I can not see it, what I do know if you can not turn in this situation. You will rip the fender. Therefore the tires does not fit.

John, go take that same picture with the wheel turned to full lock and see what happens.

Cranking the torsion bars does not create more clearance. If the tire is able to touch the fender when in stock mode, They can tough it with lift or replacement torsion bars. Changing or cranking torsion bars does nothing in terms of CLEARANCE. All you do is move the starting point of wheel travel further away from the fender. Or if you change torsion bars to stiffer bars you will get more resistance for the tire to go up as well as a further starting point./


So yes, a small bump that hit before, might not hit now, but increase the bump until it hits. Take your torsion bar off, jack the suspension up all the way until it hits the bumpstop. This is how far the tire will go up. Check clearance on turning or straight ahead. If it touches, it will touch off-road. If you don't get it to touch, just find a bigger hooptie-do in the road or go faster.

Or if you change torsion bars to stiffer bars you will get more resistance for the tire to go up.

For the original poster, 35's can be done, but you have to be careful on your selection of wheels and tires. If the tire is too wide, or you use a 18" wheel, then most likely you need wheel spacer to get the tire away from the A-arm. If you do that, then you increase any rubbing issue you might have, both in straight line, and worse in turning situations.

Now the fact that John has run this for so long is because BFG AT's are a pretty small tire for it's size. A 315/75/ in a BFG is probably a 33" tire in real life. Also, the pic above is static. I would dare John to drive through that section and turn at that exact spot and let me know if the tire does not contact the fender lip.

I have the same tire on a 17" TRD wheel on my truck, and I can assure you I can hit the fender repeatedly when doing higher speed dirt road driving. I am running 1" wheel spacers on mine.

 

[gearguywb]

Now we have the definitive answer.

 

[spressomon]

Christo,

The 285/75 18" (8" OEM wheel width and backspacing) tire size I'm running (about 11"x35") fits fine without spacers with only slight/minor frame rub at full steering lock. I assume you referred to a 12.5"+ width tire...

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Christo,

The 285/75 18" (8" OEM wheel width and backspacing) tire size I'm running (about 11"x35") fits fine without spacers with only slight/minor frame rub at full steering lock. I assume you referred to a 12.5"+ width tire...

Same story with 295/70-18. Nitto shows it as a 35x11.50-18

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Wow, I don't read this thread for a day, and here we go again! Did someone flunk Physics 101? The lift of the vehicle with independent suspension (important point) has NOTHING to do with affecting the limits of travel or whether a wheel will touch the fender under full compression. All it does is change the starting point of the suspension stroke. The stroke itself is the same. The only way to alleviate this is to alter the stroke (move the mounting points of the suspension links), or change the limiters (bump stops, shock length).

Now, for a solid axle, John's point might be correct in certain scenarios, which is another reason I am such a fan of solid axles on off-road vehicles!

You missed some of my words? Like these:

"Look, I know that when the front lower arm is on it's bump stop that the truck's at the same height as a stock Cruiser. I get this."

I must have passed Physics.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Whether or not you are on the bumpstop here I can not say since I can not see it, what I do know if you can not turn in this situation. You will rip the fender. Therefore the tires does not fit.

John, go take that same picture with the wheel turned to full lock and see what happens.

*After 120,000 miles on 315's I've been in situations like that a hundred times. I understand the situation...at full compression a 35 should hit. It just hasn't happened in years and years.

Cranking the torsion bars does not create more clearance. If the tire is able to touch the fender when in stock mode, They can tough it with lift or replacement torsion bars. Changing or cranking torsion bars does nothing in terms of CLEARANCE. All you do is move the starting point of wheel travel further away from the fender. Or if you change torsion bars to stiffer bars you will get more resistance for the tire to go up as well as a further starting point./

You missed this comment of mine too?

"Look, I know that when the front lower arm is on it's bump stop that the truck's at the same height as a stock Cruiser. I get this."


So yes, a small bump that hit before, might not hit now, but increase the bump until it hits. Take your torsion bar off, jack the suspension up all the way until it hits the bumpstop. This is how far the tire will go up. Check clearance on turning or straight ahead. If it touches, it will touch off-road. If you don't get it to touch, just find a bigger hooptie-do in the road or go faster.

I understand all this as I stated in the thread.

Or if you change torsion bars to stiffer bars you will get more resistance for the tire to go up.

I've told folks this for 9-years and recommended they use the thinnest bar for their setup.

For the original poster, 35's can be done, but you have to be careful on your selection of wheels and tires. If the tire is too wide, or you use a 18" wheel, then most likely you need wheel spacer to get the tire away from the A-arm. If you do that, then you increase any rubbing issue you might have, both in straight line, and worse in turning situations.

Now the fact that John has run this for so long is because BFG AT's are a pretty small tire for it's size. A 315/75/ in a BFG is probably a 33" tire in real life. Also, the pic above is static. I would dare John to drive through that section and turn at that exact spot and let me know if the tire does not contact the fender lip.

Like I've always been I'm very curious and will try to duplicate this. I'm sure you are correct and I agree with you and the others. I've stated the same thing theoretically...except it hasn't occured on the trail for years.

I have the same tire on a 17" TRD wheel on my truck, and I can assure you I can hit the fender repeatedly when doing higher speed dirt road driving. I am running 1" wheel spacers on mine.

Well one thing I do not do is high speed dirt driving. Then, on the trails I'm a crawler. I remember only once hopping the truck severely. Normally I take another line until sucess.

IF...IF...it's my thicker Sway A-Way T-bars that now and then disrupt 100% compression and THAT'S what's saving me the fender damage...then I say go SAW and not OME or stock when running 35's. If I don't get the last 3/4" up-travel up front at least I have added 3" more down-travel (at the rear tread) thanks to your help by adding L's. Stability-wise it's the best suspension setup currently available for crawling (my application...I need articulation).

 

[sleeoffroad]

Please explain to me how you can turn in this situation? Your tire is under the lip of the fender. If you turn, it is going to hit.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

I hear ya! We'll play this weekend!

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

John your response is feckless at best

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

No reason to elaborate any more for now. In fact, this whole thread has gotten kind of rediculous. There's a TON of 100's out there running trails on 35's and I don't see any "I RIPPED MY FRONT FENDER OFF" threads.

So will it touch on mine? I'lll try to make it happen...we'll see. Others? Haven't heard (except from you). Is everyone taking their 35's off because of the info brought up here? NOPE! Are they gonna? NOPE!

 

[spressomon]

I have had my fender damage repaired from bottom out damage incurred when I ran 1" wheel spacers. And I'm on my second set of liners and they're chewed up...need to get real (adjustable) bump stops...or more BL.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Ya, I can imagine that high speed stuff you do causing that.