2H no oil pressure after new oil and replaced turbo line? (1 Viewer)

[Max Garwood]

So my truck ('89 60 series with a 2H engine) was running great 6 months before I put it in to storage. I dropped the old oil at this point. Fast forward to a few days ago when I refilled the oil and changed the oil filter in order to fire it up again ready for driving. I cranked it over a few times with the glow plugs disconnected to generate oil pressure before firing it up because I figured if it had sat for 6 months with no oil in the sump it might need some lubrication, figured it couldn't hurt. Then I hooked it all up, cranked and started perfectly but no oil pressure was generated either on the dash gauge or my auxiliary oil gauge (know the dash gauges are kinda iffy). After about 5-10 seconds the EDIC must have flipped it off after not detecting pressure.

Great, now what? The only things I did while it was in storage was work to the turbo (it's an aftermarket Australian turbo 2H), I also replaced the turbo oil hose. No work to the engine was done, nothing that I can think would have disrupted the oil system. Anyway, I know the 2H has an oil relief valve just after(?) the oil pump, I pulled it out and it was all clean, no snagging. I cranked the engine over without it installed figuring that if the pump was pumping then it would pump some oil out of the hole where the relief valve goes. No oil, nothing. I overfilled the sump a little bit to ensure the strainer was in clean oil. I also tried pumping a little bit of oil in the the hole where the oil relief valve goes with the hope that the oil would flow back to the pump and prime it because I know the pumps can have issues with priming. This didn't seem to work and oil just ended up creeping out of my oil filter seal (i guess the oil went the other way up the pipe towards the filter since it may have filled the pump?).

After none of this worked I dropped the new oil and pan and checked the pickup sieve. Everything looked great, absolutely nothing in the oil, only a tiny bit of sludge (less than my VW 1.8 petrol). What on earth could this be? Since I am getting absolutely no oil pressure, I am assuming the pump just isn't pumping, or there is a block between the oil relief valve and the pump. If the pump isn't pumping I'm assuming it isn't priming, or it just needs more time to get the fresh new oil up the sieve and into circulation after sitting for 6 months. I'm scared to try running the truck again if it isn't getting oil, I don't want anything to break . Anyone have any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks heaps!

 

[duncanrm]

Oil Filter will take a 5 or so seconds to fill at idle.. I'd be tempted to let it run for another 5-10 seconds or so at idle.. if in doubt, you could also drop the oil filter and prefill..

If you havent already.. reinstall the relief valve first.

 

[Max Garwood]

Alas I prefilled the filter before I installed it.

 

[duncanrm]

Alas I prefilled the filter before I installed it.

Very odd.. I have nothing else to offer. Faulty new oil filter? (is this even possible?).. There is a second oil relief valve in the timing cover.. but when it fails it generally results in overpressure, not "no pressure".

 

[Max Garwood]

I've got a sump gasket in the post, so once that arrives the sump will go back on. I'm almost certain that it is an issue with the pump not being primed, especially since it sat for 6 months with no oil in it. This link gives a good rundown I think. Will update once sump is on.

 

[duncanrm]

I've got a sump gasket in the post, so once that arrives the sump will go back on. I'm almost certain that it is an issue with the pump not being primed, especially since it sat for 6 months with no oil in it. This link gives a good rundown I think. Will update once sump is on.

Good luck.. hope it works out.

Also relevant link: Zero oil pressure 2H

 

[gerg]

Don't run your engine without oil pressure ever. I had a 3b sit for a year and it lost prime on the oil pump and I was in exactly the same spot your in 5 months ago. I've no idea why, but i tried everything to get it to prime and finally the only thing that worked was to plug the crankcase breather with a heater hose and a plug on the end, and take the dip stick out and pressurize the crankcase with 40 lbs of air pressure and then crank it over with glow plugs out. It finally primed and I got pressure. It's not too bad to do it like that with no plugs as the bearings are seeing almost no load, but if I ran it like that for sure I'd of turned a bearing. Once your oil pump gears have no oil on them they are too sloppy to create enough suction to prime the pickup tube from the pan and positive pressure can really help. Another way if you prefer, is to take the oil pan off and the pickup line to the pump off and pack some vasoline into the gears. Once they are just a bit wet they will make an airtight seal and can create negative pressure enough to prime the pick up tube. The vasoline then disolves n your oil. I was just about to do that when I tried pressurizing the case as a last ditch measure. If you still have the pan off I'd do that before you put it all back together. Pressurizing it saved me a lot of work. Don't let impatience destroy your engine.

 

[Max Garwood]

Thanks heaps for the advice gerg! I'll make sure I don't start the engine until I get oil pressure (while cranking a little). I still have the oil pan off, so I'll take off the intake pipe with sieve attached and see if i can pack some Vaseline up in to the gears of the pump. Would it be worthwhile taking off the pipe coming out the other side of the pump and packing some Vaseline up on the outlet side of the gears?

Once it is packed, I then just put the pan back on and fill it up with oil, then give it a crank (with glow plugs out) and see if oil comes out the relief valve hole which is directly connected to the output pipe from the pump? If successful, how long do you reckon it would take the pump to draw oil up the intake pipe to replace the air in it (at cranking speed not running speed)?

If it doesn't work I'll try the air pressure trick, it sounds pretty smart!

 

[gerg]

I read it on a Chevy forum I think, yuck. But it's a good trick anyhow. I don't think it matters which side you gum the gears up from. The vasoline just needs to help the gears make a better air seal so it can create more suction. Don't crank the engine while packing the gears. If your in there I'd be tempted to kind of go overboard with the packing as its a dirty job to get in there, so since your there already....

I'd be tempted to use like a 5-30 oil too as it will pump easier and you have to change it anyhow with all the vasoline contamination. The vasoline will melt after the oil gets to operating temp.

If I were you I'd be tempted to pack the gears as well as put positive pressure in the case because you really want it to work the first time in as little time as possible. Your engine is really vulnerable right now.

So when I did mine I was paranoid that I'd cranked it for a couple minutes in short bursts and got no prime. I had visions I'd pushed all the bearing journals full of air. I took off the low oil pressure sender and mushed on a small clear tube with a hose clamp in a 1/8 npt male male pipe adaptor and made a PVC tank connected to it with a fill hole and plug and an air fitting. I filled with oil and then pressurized it which shot all the oil into the journal. I use like 25lbs pressure as I just wanted it to circulate and didn't want an emergency room visit to remove PVC from my face. The oil had to be absolutely clean as it was directly injected into the journal. It worked perfectly and I got pressure on my gauge without turning my engine over. I then pressurized my crankcase.

 

[gerg]

Read the bottom of the page. Shows what I did.
Wobbly Harmonic Balancer (main pulley) on 1HDFT

 

[Max Garwood]

So I finally had time to give this a go, and first up let me say WOOPIE! It worked as far as I can tell!

I took off the strainer pipe and pushed as much vaseline up in to the intake side of the oil pump as possible, between the teeth of the gear that I could see. I also took two breaks to crank the engine (I know, bad me, but I needed to be sure that the vaseline was getting in there). These cranks were only blips of about 0.5 seconds each, with the glow plugs out and injection pump unhooked, but enough to see the vaseline get sucked up in to the pump. After that I put a little vaseline in the strainer pipe and cleaned the mating faces and put it back together with a little RTV. Got the sump back on and filled it with oil, turned the key and cranked for about 5 seconds, nothing came out the relief valve near the pump.

With no luck, I got my small compressor and plumbed it to the oil dip stick pipe with a hose of rubber and hose clamps. Squeezed shut the crankcase vent hose and pressurized the case to ~30ish PSI. Tried cranking again for about 5 seconds and oil came flying out the relief valve hole along with a gob of vaseline haha! Relief valve is back in and everything is back to normal (glow plugs aren't back in yet). However my oil filter has been leaking around its seal. Not sure why that is, at first I thought I bought the wrong filter and the output holes are blocked, but I'm almost certain it's the correct filter after checking.

Maybe it isn't tight enough, or maybe there is a blockage upstream of it, but if that were the case I would have thought the relief valve on the filter housing would have prevented it from overflowing due to high pressure. Tomorrow the investigation continues.

Thanks again for the advice gerg!

 

[hj 60]

Glad you got it right, dont know if simple second start would have solved it to.
Below a lot of txt but just to find out what is normal and what is worn out but still working:

For older engines (300k kilometer) I think first start and abort by edic is normal when idle is 650 rpm.
My hj does that all the time ( I dont worry at all) and I can avoid it by more rpm (but with cold engine I rather dont do that) and most times it is about to switch off and then immediately starts trough (so rpm sound goes slightly down but not enough to stall, no click from controller)

I should ask the person that makes his own edic how the timer can be set to one second more, that would really be nice (or know what the exact time should be! are all edic timers the same?)

What helps with my hj is parking nose down a few cm, strange but works.
Has new oil relief valve and it was about to fail when I saw it (lot of scratches on lower side but no high oil pressure, just maintenance replacement)
When I change oil I sometimes take a few hours for the oil to drip out (so pump should be empty I think) but the pressure is there.
Mostly I overfill engine oil when replacing halve filled oil filter, start and shut down without glowing to get a bit of oil around 3x and then start idle few seconds and drain a liter of black old oil that is still in the engine (after draining)

So: my hj 300k : controller clicks when edic switches engine off because low oil pressure, bummer when it happens but no damage because oil pressure is rising, 30 years/300k ago it might have been better...
hot engine: never edic abort
cold engine, 650 rpm: many aborts by edic, most stall and go edic interventions.
cold engine, 650 rpm on slope front wheel down: never abort by edic (still try/measure this official)
cold engine, after 3 seconds 1000 rpm: no edic abort, stalling prevented.
replaced and overfill oil in warm engine after few hours: no edic abort, after a few seconds and a bit rpm drain >one liter black oil

The cut out switch is only <0.3 bar, this might also be bad after-market or find out what original cost (this is not the switch to measure oil pressure at dash)
SWITCH ASSY, OIL PRESSURE
08.1980 - 02.1985= 8353014010
8353028030

dash sender is
83520 GAGE ASSY,OIL PRESSURE SENDER
83520‑60020 HJ6*..EUR, 24V

 

[Max Garwood]

Great info! Once I get the oil filter leak sorted out I will see how my oil pressure works out during idle and running, and also how it works after I switch the oil to fresh oil after running it a little.

 

[hj 60]

Most heavy splashing oil leaks are from the old rubber O-ring still connected to the body (so using two rings),
wheeping is not a real problem, not over-tightening is difficult as 3/4 turn after base contact seems so loose.

My oil relief valve pictures/install/fsm copy: hj60.freeforums.org • View topic - EDIC manual, oil pressure switch, relief valve

filterbase:
without thread

with thread:

converter came out when new filter did not match and would not screw on: mental breakdown

 

[Max Garwood]

So I just thought I'd post back with a final update in case anyone else stumbles upon this thread with a similar issue to the one that I had. In my second last reply I said that I had managed to get oil pressure, however after trying to crank the truck again the next day I did not get any oil pressure. Turned out I never managed to prime the pump despite the vaseline and crankcase pressurising tricks. After several days of hitting dead ends I finally found a method that worked for me. It is based off a method described in an old airplane technical manual I found.

Make sure the oil filter is on the engine (after prefilling it a little), and make sure the two oil pressure relief valves are installed. Next I removed the plug on the oil filter housing near the pressure relief valve and turned an aluminium fitting for it that screwed in (M12x1.25 if I recall right) and had a barb for a hose on the other end. You can easily buy a fitting, but it was quicker and cheaper for me to make it. Chuck a hose (clear is best) on the end and a funnel on the end of the hose and pour engine oil down the hose. Let the oil sit for a few minutes and then start hand cranking the engine backwards (fan off, 46mm socket on the cranknut, turn anticlockwise). Since the oil is going in to the system at a higher level than the bottom of the oil pump gears, the oil will eventually reach the gears and turning the crank backwards sucks the oil through the pump backwards. If it's working you will see the oil in the tube start getting sucked in to the engine. Once you think the engine has sucked in enough and the pump is potentially primed, turn the crank forward and if oil comes back up the tube you're in luck.

Put it back together and fire the engine up, check for pressure.

P.S. this is the plug where you can add the oil. Pretty sure it's above the pump.

 

[sved]

I can confirme the air pressured oilsump method works even on a 12HT. Had the same problems like the OP.This solved it in 10 min-
Oil pressure comes up direct to 4-6 Bar with short bursts on the starter motor. External oil pressure gauge was conected to the oil pressure sender connection point so i had a reading during starting bursts
I had no fuel connected to the injectionpump because i wanted to be sure i had oil pressure when trying to start the engine after standing for 3 years .I saw the pressure already rising on the gauge when i just connected air presure 2-3 bar feeded in the dipstick pipe.

Many many thanks to Gerg for this easy solution.