2977cc B and 3431cc 3B parts interchangeability (1 Viewer)

[lostmarbles]

I see quite a few new engine parts available for 3B engines but seldom see any available for my smaller (and less common) B engine. (Looking on places like eBay.)


Yet I know that the following parts are common to both engines:

• oil filter (Toyota 15600-41010, Ryco Z9, AC PF2, Highway 51016, FRAM PH8A)
• fuel filter (Ryco Z169A, FRAM P4178, etc)
• primer pump (Bosch 2 447 010 033, Bosch 2 447 010 038, Bosch 2 447 222 125, Bosch 2 447 222 126, Denso 09219-50)
• Injection pump diaphragm (Denso 090580-0041) where an "in-line type" injector pump is utilised
• Glow plugs 8.5V (Toyota 19850-68030 or HKT PT104) - provided the engine utilises 12V-battery-power and provided it has a MANUAL glow sytem (without "superglow" feature)

And it looks like the exhaust manifold and its gasket are "very similar" on both engines too(See posts 12, 14 and 16 below) Edit-12 Sept 08 - They appear to be the same except for that most B engines employ a 2-bolt pipe-flange (compared to the stronger 3-bolt flange on the 3B) and some B engines may use "smaller diameter exhaust manifold studs".



So if anyone knows of other ENGINE PARTS that are interchangeable between these engines, could they please help me by posting replies here?

PS. I'm trying to update this post (and/or #5 post) as I go (with info I gain from working on this thread)

Edit 12 Sept 08 - Post No.4 in this thread talks about starter motor interchangeability: -
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/239928-help-starter-b-motor.html
So does post # 32 in this thread: -
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...6917-bj40-starter-problems-2.html#post3650411
And here's another thread:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...2949-b-3b-starters-flywheels.html#post3698334
So it looks like the B engine in a 1979-onwards BJ40 employs the same 2.5kW gear-reduction starter motor as the 3B in a 1982 BJ42 for instance.

But if your looking for a replacement starter motor for your B or 3B engine, check out this thread first:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/248398-3b-starter-compatibility.html
As you can see from reading it, you may be able to buy a starter that was designed for an entirely different vehicle (and as such, may be cheaper and more readily-available in your country) and then simply swap your old "starter nose" onto it to make it fit your vehicle.

And this thread here talks about replacing a 2B engine with a 3B.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...swapping-lhd-3b-into-rhd-1981-bj-44-w-2b.html

So it appears that a "latemodel" B or 2B bellhousing bolts straight up to a 3B (as used in a BJ42) with the original B/2B engine mounts able to be re-used on the 3B. (Sounds almost too good to be true!) I guess a feature to look for is that both original and transplant engines have/had "gear-reduction starter motors" - because I have heard of odd-ball early B-engines (with simpler/lower-torque starters) that had significant differences from the 3B (making such transplants very much more difficult.)

Thanks in advance for any help and/or corrections offered.



Note: This all gets a little complicated because two engines can have the same designation (B, 3B or whatever) yet still have differences. For instance I know some 3B engines have rotary injection pumps instead of the more rugged/dependable in-line type. And while a 3B in a BJ42 may use the same glow plugs as my B engine in my BJ40, a 3B in a BJ60 will not. Furthermore, a 24 volt model will CERTAINLY use different glow plugs to a 12 volt model. (Note: Even some 3B-powered BJ42s use different glow plugs. For instance a 1984 12 Volt BJ42 will feature "superglow" and be fitted with 6V plugs.)

 

[Snailtrail]

Hey mate, i had a quick look on the EPC to see if any of the parts you listed swap between the B and 3B.

First off, the bore/stroke specs are 95 x 105mm for the B and 102 x 105mm for the 3B so the pistons, rings and head gasket will be different.

I checked the big end bearings, main bearings, con rods, camshaft, camshaft bearings, intake and exhaust valves, Pre cups, rockershaft and injectors.

The only parts that swap are the main bearings, camshaft, camshaft bearings, rockershaft and injectors.

Is your BJ40 an import or NZ new? I cant say ive seen many of the original style B's around, the odd one shows up on trademe, but they always look as though they've been sitting in a farm shed for 15 years!

If your planning to keep the original engine it might pay to buy a rebuild kit now and store it away for a future freshen up.

Toyota B

The 2977cc B was produced through the 80's and probably well beyond, being updated as it went. It was also made in direct injection form from about '85 on known as the 11B so theres plenty of replacment motors out there. Not forgetting the larger B's in 3168cc, 3431cc, 3661cc or 4104cc sizes that swap in with minor mods.

 

[lostmarbles]

Hey mate, i had a quick look on the EPC to see if any of the parts you listed swap between the B and 3B.....

Darn! Why didn't I think of that?

....First off, the bore/stroke specs are 95 x 105mm for the B and 102 x 105mm for the 3B so the pistons, rings and head gasket will be different.

I checked the big end bearings, main bearings, con rods, camshaft, camshaft bearings, intake and exhaust valves, Pre cups, rockershaft and injectors.

The only parts that swap are the main bearings, camshaft, camshaft bearings, rockershaft and injectors....

Thanks. (Finding out all that would have taken you quite a bit of time too. )

Is your BJ40 an import or NZ new? .....

I imported it from Oz so it is an import which was "assembled in Japan for the Australian market". (I understand Toyota Australia imported theirs fully-assembled while Toyota NZ imported theirs as CKD.)

...I cant say ive seen many of the original style B's around, the odd one shows up on trademe, but they always look as though they've been sitting in a farm shed for 15 years!....

I don't think mine looks quite like that. This is the engine bay:



I'm working on the body/chassis etc now.

 

[lostmarbles]

..........
I wonder what the story is with the injectors though. An injector of mine apparantly has part number 23600-56011 while the nozzle alone is 23620-54010. Yet these part numbers change for engines produced after Oct 82. And when I look at people offering injectors for a 3B engine they never seem to specify procuction periods??........

I'm in the process of ordering reconditioned injectors and I've been asked for an injector body number.

Mine is 1800 (See photo)

 

[lostmarbles]

Hmmm. I seem to be the only one answering my own stupid questions........................

I've just finished ordering all the gear to be able to do a full engine overhaul (whenever the need arises) on my B diesel so I now never need to consider again the idea of obtaining/storing a replacement 3B engine. (Until now I've been scared that my B engine was too scarce to be able to get spares for it and was looking at swapping to a 3B some time in the future to ensure continued parts-availability.)

Here is some info that I gather to be true (from information the supplier of my "engine overhaul kit" has provided me with):

B combustion chambers (precups) are common with the 2B engine only.

B injectors are common with 2H and H 6-cylinder engines (Hmm. - But the ones they supplied have "3B" stamped on them, so it looks like some 3B engines my use them too - perhaps 3B engines that use injectors with "an 1800 body"?)

Cylinder liners are unique to the B

Pistons are unique to the B

Big end shells are common with the 2B only

Main bearing shells are common to the 2B and 3B

Gudgeon pin bushes are common with the 2B and 3B

Full gasket set is common with the 2B only

Piston ring set is common with an 11B (What is an 11B?)



(ps. Such info may be useful to someone)

 

[lostmarbles]

Righty-ho.

I've done serious damage to my "savings account" and bought some goodies for my B engine. I did this mainly for "peace of mind". (I now know I can continue running this engine until I snuff it - And because this vehicle is destined to be a "family heirloom", hopefully one of my young-uns can do the same.)

I was pleasantly surprised to find ALL parts are readily available for it. (Thanks to Snailtrail and Rosco for helping me source a good supplier - "Engine Australia".)

It may take me a while to post all the photos of what I've bought because I'm checking things out as I go and am bound to get distracted into doing other things along the way.

First - I'll start with the pre-combustion chambers I bought. You can see from the packaging that they suit both the "B" and "2B" diesels:



PS. There's always plenty of eye-candy for 3B owners so I thought it was about time we had something for owners of the humble "B".

 

[lostmarbles]

And here are the "B engine" cylinder liners:



PS. I chose to buy "semi-finished liners" because it makes more sense to me to "bore them to size" once they've been pressed into the block. After all, I seem to remember it takes 5000kg to press them in and I would expect that much force could deform them slightly (- Not that I have much experience in the way of engine reconditioning though!)

 

[BillyGHusk]

I like it all!!!

Wish I had that stuff for my 3B....


Tim

 

[lostmarbles]

Some more:
These bigend shells are shared with the 2B engine:



and these camshaft bearing are shared with the 3B and 13B engines:


And these gudgeon pin bearings are shared with the 2B and 3B engines:

 

[lostmarbles]

These main bearings are shared with the 2B and 3B engines



And this "full gasket set" is shared with the 2B engine:



And they even supplied this kit with guidelines for engine reconditioning:

 

[lostmarbles]

Well I dunno what the "7S" stands for on my existing ex-factory injectors but the reconditioned ones I've been supplied with have "3B" stamped there instead.

I guess that suggests the injectors are interchangeable between the B and 3B engines - But then the box suggests the 1800 body is common with only the H and 2H engines - so I'm a little confused.

Here are the photos:







Oh - The box says "6 pcs" and I suspect it originally contained 6 injectors (for a 6 cylinder H or 2H engine). But when I received it, the packet was already torn open - presummably to remove 2 of the injectors because I need only 4 of them.

 

[lostmarbles]

A post in another thread by eleblanc (Eric) has just informed me that a "JC439" exhaust manifold gasket set is common to the 2B and 3B. At first I thought this would imply that the manifolds themselves are swappable between these engines. But then I saw from the photo that this is "a set of 4 separate gaskets" - one for each port. ---- So I can't draw that conclusion from this information alone.

See these photos that Eric supplied in that thread:





And here is the link to that thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/207275-3-b-exhaust-manifold-gasket-source.html

 

[TOBASH]

Lostmarbles and Snailtrail, you have made this an awesome thread. Stickie maybe?

Mods, what about making this into a stickie???

You answered so many questions I have been holding back on that I am amazed.

Next time I will wear my tinfoil helmet to keep you guys from reading my thoughts.

Best,

TOBASH, a very thankful newbie.

 

[lostmarbles]

Mods, what about making this into a stickie???

You answered so many questions I have been holding back on that I am amazed.

Next time I will wear my tinfoil helmet to keep you guys from reading my thoughts.

Best,

TOBASH, a very thankful newbie.

Great that you find it useful Tobash cos that was the aim.
I've still got more photos to post here (glow plugs and pistons) - but I'm adding to this thread mainly just when the weather outside is bad (so my outdoor workshop is closed) and when I can spare the time.

Weather's fine at the moment so I've been refitting my freshly painted RH mudguard instead ----- errrrrr - fender.

 

[amaurer]

Great that you find it useful Tobash cos that was the aim.
I've still got more photos to post here (glow plugs and pistons) - but I'm adding to this thread mainly just when the weather outside is bad (so my outdoor workshop is closed) and when I can spare the time.

Weather's fine at the moment so I've been refitting my freshly painted RH mudguard instead ----- errrrrr - fender.

While I have no use for it, I agree this is an awesome thread. I read it anyway just to oogle your nice new parts.

 

[lostmarbles]

In post #12, that exhaust gasket set (JC439) contains 4 individual "port gaskets" (rather than one single gasket) - So based on this alone - It wasn't really clear that the manifolds themselves were interchangeable. However by studying the EPC, I note that exhaust manifold part number 17141-56030 (substitute numbers 17141-56031 and 17141-56050) is listed for both B and 3B engines. So they must indeed be interchangeable (and I suspect the 2B manifold is interchangeable too).

22 June 08 - just searched the Toyota EPC for details on the exhaust manifold gasket - toyota part number 17173-56022 and the results confirm that it fits both the 3B and B diesels (and the link in post #12 above confirms it is still available from Toyota)
The results say it fits:
3B engine fitted to a Coaster
B and 3B engines fitted to Dyna
B and 3B engines fitted to landcruiser BJ4#
3B engine fitted to a BJ60

Edit 30 Dec 08 - Discovered complication -- Exhaust manifold gasket 17173-58010 is listed in the EPC for B, 3B, 11B, 13B, 13BT etc engines from about Sept/Oct 1984 onwards. So it looks like this date may limit manifold interchangeabily too.

And beware (as mentioned before) that earlier B-diesel manifolds (including the one on my 1979 BJ40) feature the 2-bolt exhaust-pipe flange (compared to the 3B's 3-bolt) and there are rumours that some employ smaller studs to bolt them to the head

 

[lostmarbles]

Here are the pistons (unique to the B engine) and gudgeon pins (common with 2B and 3B). All are well-packaged to protect them from corrosion too

Man - those pistons are much heavier than I thought they would be!



And here is the warning that was stuck on the box:



And here are the piston rings (made in Taiwan but to Japanese standards):

 

[lostmarbles]

And here are the new 8.5V glow plugs (HKT) I've bought alongside the original ex-factory Toyota ones for my B-engined BJ40:



One annoying feature of the new ones is that the electrical-connection size has been reduced from M5x0.8 to M4x0.7

These glow plugs are used in a "12V manual glow system".

I turn my ignition key backwards and hold it there - typically for 20 seconds (long time!) before turning the key forwards to engage the starter.

I believe these plugs are also used in the following vehicles provided they too utilise a 12V-battery (rather than a 24V battery) and have a manual glow system (without "superglow" feature):

• BJ42 (3B engine)
• Some HJ series cruisers of around 1978 to 1983 vintage (2H engine).

 

[lostmarbles]

And here are the specifications for the B engine courtesy of Engine Australia:

(I don't have a scanner so I had to take photos.)

 

[lostmarbles]

And the last batch of engine specifications from Engine Australia: