b and 3b starters and flywheels (1 Viewer)

[79fj40moneypit]

Well today I thought I would put my 'NEW 3b Rebuilt starter" in my old "B" engine since the old one was out it went really easy, That was the end of a easy time turned the key and the starter spun but didn't engage, took it back out checked it out drive pops out like it's supposed to.everythings working ok. So I stick it back in same thing happens damn! So I take it back out look at the flywheel looks just like the 3b flywheel,So I measure from the shoulder on the fywheel to the top of one of the teeth on the "b" and on the "3b" it seems there is a slight difference like 1/8 the "b" is bigger.

Ok so if anyone out there has a "b" and "3b" flywheels out could you take a measurement of the flywheel and post them up

It seems there is a difference it the two of them the starter that was in mine was a straight style not gear reduction so after reading a bunch of posts on the two engines it looked like the "3b" starter would go in which it does but won't grab the flywheel.

 

[79fj40moneypit]

flywheel measurements b and 3b

well I took some measurements on the flywheels

______________________________________________"3B"*********************"B"
flywheel shoulder to out side of ring gear tooth______1.000********************1.160
step on flywheel shoulder________________________.445*********************.455
mounting face to flywheel________________________.650*********************.640
tooth depth____________________________________.245*********************.270
starter drive gear______________________________1.590

I just looked at the part#s for B and 3B Flywheels 13453-56020 same number for both! what is going on here?

These are not perfect measurements I did then with a set of dial calipers but close the biggest difference is the shoulder to the ring gear tooth .160

maybe I can find a starter drive gear with smaller diameter

I took the starter out of my 3B engine and stuck the New rebuilt (that won't start the B) in and it works perfect in it.

 

[KOOTENAY KRUZER]

After 25 years my 3B is still starting with the starter I took from my B engine, but it is a reduction gear starter. Maybe the direct drive starter drive gear is different somehow?

 

[lostmarbles]

I think it is only the later model B-engine having the gear-reduction starter (like in my 1979 BJ40) that can accept the starter motor from a 3B (as found in say a 1982 BJ42). - Because I believe these starter motors are identical.

I suspect your B-engine is older than 1979.

Did your B-engine originate from a cruiser or from some other vehicle?

 

[79fj40moneypit]

I don't know if "that" motor was in there originally but it came with a diesel as all the wiring is there and the badges (of course none of it is connected) And the truck came from South America.

The starter that was in there had 9 teeth on the drive gear the gear reduction has 11, With measuring both gears I need a gear that is .80 smaller or elongate the top hole on the starter to rotate it away from the gear, it's kinda hacking though.I would have to grind the steel spacer plate also.(last resort)

 

[cruiser_guy]

And the truck came from South America.

This says it all!! It likely has been hacked previously so the motor may very well not be original!! My FJ45LV had all sorts of changes to it, some good, like fine spline axles, and some not so good, like flexible brake lines patched with electrical tape !!

It is a Central American truck originally and is still here in Guatemala undergoing a frame-off restoration and diesel transplant.

 

[lostmarbles]

I don't know if "that" motor was in there originally but it came with a diesel as all the wiring is there and the badges (of course none of it is connected) And the truck came from South America.

The starter that was in there had 9 teeth on the drive gear the gear reduction has 11, With measuring both gears I need a gear that is .80 smaller or elongate the top hole on the starter to rotate it away from the gear, it's kinda hacking though.I would have to grind the steel spacer plate also.(last resort)

I'm puzzled by your signature-line Pat.

Should it read 1979 FJ40 rebuild with diesel B-engine transplant (rather than 3B)?
Or which vehicle has got your 2977cc B engine in it?

cheers
Tom

 

[79fj40moneypit]

Lostmarbles,

In my sig line is a 79fj 40 that I am converting to a 3B 5 speed,that is LONG term. But I have a South Amercian bj40 that I bought for $500.00 a couple of years ago.So when I feel like beating myself a little I work on it. I am just trying to straighten one thing at a time out. It's still the starter right now!!

 

[79fj40moneypit]

Looks like I might be able to put a 9 tooth drive gear on My Auto electric guy Jim Woods is very good with this starter, I'll post up the results.

 

[79fj40moneypit]

3b flywheel needed

So it looks bad for the starter drive gear,It seems the shaft size is wrong for the starter. So it looks like a flywheel change for me, So if anyone has a extra one out there please let me know.

 

[79fj40moneypit]

Well it's been some time and I haven't worked on this much but I found a 9 tooth starter drive that is smaller than the 11 tooth, It's off a kubota tractor but all the dim's are the same besides the drive gear.So I ordered it and i'm going to give it a try it's only $17. keeping my finger's crossed that this will work.

 

[79fj40moneypit]

Ok I finally got the 9 tooth starter drive gear, it is a good fit in the starter now to try it it is a .160 thousands smaller than the 11 tooth toyota drive gear the application for the 9 tooth was from a kutbota tractor. Here's hoping.

 

[79fj40moneypit]

Success with starter!!

I put the starter in today and it works great! no binding at all. So a later model gear reduction 3b starter can work in a "B" ENGINE with a starter drive gear change to a 9 tooth from the stock 11 tooth. If your "B" engine came with the older style non gear reduction starter.

I'll find the drive gear number and post it up also.


WAI 54-82211 part number for the gear,.......... kubota Starter that the pinion gear was from 028000-500

 

[lostmarbles]

Well done Pat.

 

[ozwallaby]

I put the starter in today and it works great! no binding at all. So a later model gear reduction 3b starter can work in a "B" ENGINE with a starter drive gear change to a 9 tooth from the stock 11 tooth. If your "B" engine came with the older style non gear reduction starter.

I'll find the drive gear number and post it up also.

And the winner is..............

 

[79fj40moneypit]

Starter gear part number posted.

 

[moto7man]

I have the exact same problem on a 1977 BJ 40 B Diesel. Do you have the part number for the 3b Starter that you used?

 

[lostmarbles]

I have the exact same problem on a 1977 BJ 40 B Diesel. Do you have the part number for the 3b Starter that you used?

I had forgotten this thread...

I'd be interesting in hearing the tech details of swapping starter drive cogs too.

More specifically .... Can this cog really be easily pulled off and replaced by another?:



PS. The 3B gear-reduction starter under discussion is presumably this one (that I have on my B):

 

[moto7man]

Thanks for the response! On Monday, I'm going to try to get my direct drive starter rebulit. If that fails and I can't find a replacement, I'm going to try a 3b gear reduction starter and install 9 tooth pinion gear.

 

[Count Lokshire]

Starter gear part number posted.

Hi, I am in the same boat... I have owned a 77 cruiser down here in Costa Rica for the past 15 years. The only thing that is wrong with her is the starter. Luckily we have lots of hills to pop start it!!! I came across this thread a few months ago and finally found the reduction starter. I have the new 9 tooth gear... I am with the mechanic, and we just have one question, ...when we opened up the starter, I see that the new 9 tooth gear is shorter than the original 11 tooth. There is also a spacer on the end on the shaft. Do I simply put the 9 tooth gear on and put the spacer back??? Any and all help is appreciated...