I think one aspect of the LC vs Sequoia debate that is not mentioned enough is the fact that the new LC250 will be built in Japan and the Sequoia's are all built in the USA (unless I am mistaken). Do you buy into the superiority of the Japanese plants? I also always hear the Land Cruiser components are just higher quality than other Toyota parts. Is that true? Will it continue to be true?
2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (13 Viewers)
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One small example is that the Japanese built 2UZ engine had forged connecting rods vs the US made engine's cast connecting rods. Although this is an old data point.
The retro theme is well proven, aka, Bronco and their retro round headlights, they sell all they can produce. Retro sells, nostalgia sells, but, I understand those that don't have fond memories of early Land Cruisers, going back to the FJ40, etc, they may not care for the retro look.
When I read between the lines of some of the source leaks, I get the feeling we actually may see both, tri-beam headlights on lower trims and round headlights on the upper trims.
if I recall correctly from the sequoia release videos, Toyota HQ was actually going to drop the Sequoia all together, but Mike and Co. convinced them that they could make the Sequoia work. That’s probably why the seating/cargo capabilities are compromised; the whole vehicle is a compromise.
Edit: found the video. “Arm wrestling” and “negotiating”? Definitely doesn’t describe a flagship type of car, maybe only by size and price.
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i live in la. dont even see new sequoias at all
if the new 4runner is more tacoma - will it be built in baja?
Supposedly, Toyota originally planned to develop an HD platform to use on tundra and Sequoia with a turbo V8. They scraped that around 2017(?) seeing the rise of Tesla and decided to use the lighter duty shared platform with the rest of the bof models. So everything tundra and Sequoia had to be limited to what the ga-f platform can handle.
I think it's also the case that Toyota is squarely at odds with dealers. Both Toyota and Lexus dealers want the bigger SUV. Toyota doesn't want to build it. Not sure why. Lexus dealers have been begging for a full size SUV for years. Toyota still says no. The TX is great, but also not really what they want. Hard to figure out the logic beyond the problem that the smaller chassis limits what they can build and they don't have an engine that's big enough. And the long range plan to get out of that market?
I think it's also the case that Toyota is squarely at odds with dealers. Both Toyota and Lexus dealers want the bigger SUV. Toyota doesn't want to build it. Not sure why. Lexus dealers have been begging for a full size SUV for years. Toyota still says no. The TX is great, but also not really what they want. Hard to figure out the logic beyond the problem that the smaller chassis limits what they can build and they don't have an engine that's big enough. And the long range plan to get out of that market?
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I might be just one data point, but after 4 RAV4's, 4 Highlanders, 6 T4R's, 3 LC200's, 1 LC100, and 1 LC80, I can attest that Japanese, is Japanese. Specially when I was able to compare Highlanders build in Japan (2008) vs built in the USA (post 2008, late 2008 and 2009 onwards), and RAV4's Japanese and USA made. Would it be the same in 2024? I cannot tell, but gut tells me, yes.
The build quality on our USA made Highlander is very good, as it was on my Mexican made Mazda 3. I have not noticed much of a difference between those (in terms of panel fitment etc) and my Japan-made GX and previous Japan-made Subaru Forester. Japanese brands seem to know how to export their quality.
My Japanese WRX has been junk (lemon), while my Mexican Tacoma has been fantastic.
The fit and finish and production quality on the new Tundra was so poor that I declined to buy a Tundra I had planned to buy after seeing it in person and driving it. I'm not sure how much of that to chalk up to new model and covid issues. But, it was not good. And that was obvious stuff I could see on a new vehicle without any special effort investigating. It wasn't Tesla bad, but it was surprising to say the least. If it wasn't brand new - I would have been sure it was at a minimum a respray on parts of the paint.
It's a sample size of one. The older Tundra I bought instead is much better in that respect. Paint still kinda sucks, but it's consistently heavy orange peel across all the panels.
In terms of long term reliability - Sequoia beats Land Cruiser in the only long term large sample size data set I know of. It's not very good data due to the low LC volumes. I don't think they even score the LC200 because the sample population is too low. Not sure how much weight to put on it. But the Tacoma and 4Runner are practically identical. And the Lexus LX scores slightly below the Sequoia - but probably close enough to be in the margin of error. It's only a sample population of 2230 LX and around 10,000 Sequoias.
It's a sample size of one. The older Tundra I bought instead is much better in that respect. Paint still kinda sucks, but it's consistently heavy orange peel across all the panels.
In terms of long term reliability - Sequoia beats Land Cruiser in the only long term large sample size data set I know of. It's not very good data due to the low LC volumes. I don't think they even score the LC200 because the sample population is too low. Not sure how much weight to put on it. But the Tacoma and 4Runner are practically identical. And the Lexus LX scores slightly below the Sequoia - but probably close enough to be in the margin of error. It's only a sample population of 2230 LX and around 10,000 Sequoias.
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I know the Japanese built stuff has a good reputation and rightfully so but I could not see any discernible differences in quality between say a 4Runner (Japan) and Tacoma (Mexico).
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Thanks to the help of @CArunnerz on the toyota-4runner-org website we have solved the mystery. He noted that the lighter image is the one with Round Headlights and the darker image is actually a second trim level with Tri-Beam Headlights. See my updated image below for details. This confirms what I had heard on the Plano grapevine that there were multiple models/trims.
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So are we expecting the v6 to make an appearance in the US LC?
We already know for a fact the global version won't have a V6.
The tea leaves say maybe, here is the info from my running summary, a big thanks to @Carmaker1 for sharing much of the background information.
2024 Toyota Land Cruiser 250
Revealed: Aug 1, 2023
Launch: Q2 2024
Engines: i-Force MAX 2.4L Turbo I-4 Hybrid
2025 Toyota 6th gen 4Runner (Tacoma influenced)
Reveal: Q1 2024 (teasers start 4 - 6 weeks ahead of reveal)
Launch: Q3 2024
Engines: 2.4L turbo I-4, i-Force MAX 2.4T I-4 hybrid, alleged PHEV, No TTV6
Latest Rendering: Carscoops is out with a new rendering as of 7/31/2023, you can see how it corrects some of the shortcomings the CarBuzz rendering had.
Insiders said the CarBuzz rendering was close but needed, a) needs to be more angular, like the new Tacoma. b) The Tacoma headlight design is extremely similar, but 4Runner has a different curvature than the Tacoma units. c) The C-Pillar is more upright for better ease of entry and a slopped D-Pillar.
DISCLAIMER: Dates and information gathered from verified sources and is believed to be accurate at time of posting. However, all dates and information are subject to change as additional information is uncovered.
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Maybe I just lack sufficient "imagination" or inability to suspend reality......but I fail to see how they can characterize the dark photo profiled school bus as a rival/competitor to the Jeep/Bronco/Defender segment.
I really hope you are right, and that Toyota will offer different trims of the LC Prado in the USA, I do. 
... however, those two pics are the same. If fact, either they really take perfect balanced pics, or they are just pure computerized pics; did you notice how the shadows are not real by mirrors of the silhouettes in the Car & Driver pic? Also, it is VERY difficult to take a real pic and by balancing the inputs, not able to discover more, meaning, not being able to see ANYTHING whatsoever other than the silhouette's and a bit of the edges, is made, not real pics. Now, the pics real or not, do tell a story and where the LC Prado is heading. That and the new GX are clear indications ! Once again, I will buy the LC Prado unless is ridiculously priced in which case a GX550 would make more sense. These are VERY exciting times for us living here in the USA: A Lexus GX ("Prado") that actually has the 4x4 things we want, AND PLUS, a soon to be revealed LC Prado !!!! I have not been this exited since the Trail edition was announced in the 5th Gen T4R !!!!! The ice in the cake for me would be a LC Prado in Shoreline Blue Pearl !
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... however, those two pics are the same. If fact, either they really take perfect balanced pics, or they are just pure computerized pics; did you notice how the shadows are not real by mirrors of the silhouettes in the Car & Driver pic? Also, it is VERY difficult to take a real pic and by balancing the inputs, not able to discover more, meaning, not being able to see ANYTHING whatsoever other than the silhouette's and a bit of the edges, is made, not real pics. Now, the pics real or not, do tell a story and where the LC Prado is heading. That and the new GX are clear indications ! Once again, I will buy the LC Prado unless is ridiculously priced in which case a GX550 would make more sense. These are VERY exciting times for us living here in the USA: A Lexus GX ("Prado") that actually has the 4x4 things we want, AND PLUS, a soon to be revealed LC Prado !!!! I have not been this exited since the Trail edition was announced in the 5th Gen T4R !!!!! The ice in the cake for me would be a LC Prado in Shoreline Blue Pearl ! View attachment 3367788
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I remember that web site, used to use it quite a lot !
The issue with the LC is more about the amount of data, rather than the quality.
I would still buy a Sequoia over other vehicles, but I couldn't buy the new one, I had ordreded and all, but really just failed to me.. I was determined once the LC300 was scratched in the USA.... I am happy I waited !
Cheeers,
The issue with the LC is more about the amount of data, rather than the quality.
I would still buy a Sequoia over other vehicles, but I couldn't buy the new one, I had ordreded and all, but really just failed to me.
. I was determined once the LC300 was scratched in the USA.... I am happy I waited !Cheeers,
The fit and finish and production quality on the new Tundra was so poor that I declined to buy a Tundra I had planned to buy after seeing it in person and driving it. I'm not sure how much of that to chalk up to new model and covid issues. But, it was not good. And that was obvious stuff I could see on a new vehicle without any special effort investigating. It wasn't Tesla bad, but it was surprising to say the least. If it wasn't brand new - I would have been sure it was at a minimum a respray on parts of the paint.
It's a sample size of one. The older Tundra I bought instead is much better in that respect. Paint still kinda sucks, but it's consistently heavy orange peel across all the panels.
In terms of long term reliability - Sequoia beats Land Cruiser in the only long term large sample size data set I know of. It's not very good data due to the low LC volumes. I don't think they even score the LC200 because the sample population is too low. Not sure how much weight to put on it. But the Tacoma and 4Runner are practically identical. And the Lexus LX scores slightly below the Sequoia - but probably close enough to be in the margin of error. It's only a sample population of 2230 LX and around 10,000 Sequoias.
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You are 100% correct, my apologies, @Carmaker1 and myself rely on unofficial leaks from Toyota insiders. There can be a multitude of motivations by different ones. Some believe they have full company knowledge but in fact may only know one piece of the pie. In the case of the source who said the LC was their "hardcore" model to go up against the Bronco Badlands and Wrangler Rubicon, well, for now, I think we can all agree, while this may have been an internal aspirational goal, the reality is, I think it was more wishful thinking. (I've removed that point from my summary).
That said, it seems many of the Land Cruiser people, for the most part, like it and say how it reminds them of the 80 or 100 series, so that's good. The hardcore offroad people and some Bronco / Wrangler people, may have already been turned off at this point. For myself, it is exactly what I was looking for, a lower cost GX/Prado like model. It will be hard to pick between the LC and the 6th gen 4Runner once that is revealed, speaking of course for my personal needs.
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