2021 LC200

[M1911]

Sounds like they’re trying to make it illegal, or at least discourage, pinning police locations on the Waze app while driving.

The driving factor is people getting distracted by their phones while driving and running into things as a result. Only a very small number of those are pinning police locations in Waze. There was plenty of discussion among the political classes about distracted driving, but nothing about police locations in Waze.

 

[M1911]

No. Please check before telling that what I am saying untrue. Go online, call dealers and verify the prices.

He is a high volume dealer.

 

[LBridges]

No. Please check before telling that what I am saying untrue. Go online, call dealers and verify the prices.

I think maybe you and Eric are comparing apples to oranges.

I'm guessing that Eric, as a GM of a Toyota dealership, is well aware of other dealer pricing.

I'm not in Texas, but in the local Florida area we I've seen dealers that quote "below invoice". But they also add on bogus mandatory dealer fees that are all over $650. They add on dealer installed "options" like pin striping, paint sealant, interior fabric protector, etc. at a pricing around $800 when it costs then maybe $50. Finally, a dealer in my county also requires one to finance through their preferred lender to get that pricing (and they get a kick-back from the lender). Probably other money makers like talking one into extended warranty, etc.

So is it still below invoice?

 

[bloc]

I think maybe you and Eric are comparing apples to oranges.

I'm guessing that Eric, as a GM of a Toyota dealership, is well aware of other dealer pricing.

I'm not in Texas, but in the local Florida area we I've seen dealers that quote "below invoice". But they also add on mandatory dealer fees that are all over $650. They add on dealer installed "options" like pin striping, paint sealant, interior fabric protector, etc. at a pricing around $800 when it costs then maybe $50. Finally, a dealer in my county also requires one to finance through their preferred lender to get that pricing (and they get a kick-back from the lender). Probably other money makers like talking one into extended warranty, etc.

Either way, I get the impression Eric is moving more new Landcruisers than the vast majority of other dealers in the US. His opinion on pricing should be something approaching "fact".

 

[luke27617]

I think it all depends on location of the dealer. I am in Raleigh, NC where there are people with money so they are aggressive on pricing but don't give away at cost, maybe when unloading last year's model. 100 miles away in a smaller town I got my 2020 3% below invoice and premium in trade in value. I believe income levels and size of city has a lot of to do how aggressive. Those dealers in smaller towns don't know how to market LC and often want to get rid off one vs keeping in inventory for weeks. This what happened when I got one of the first 16LC sold in US which I have bought below invoice as well.

 

[fasteddie2015]

Hey Eric, Why would we shoot the messenger when he brings good news. My 15 lc has risen to the top of my best car ever list, replacing my previous favorite, 99 GS400. I'll get a fresh version in a few years when the 200 run does come to an end and keep it running as long as I can.

 

[Eric Sarjeant]

No. Please check before telling that what I am saying untrue. Go online, call dealers and verify the prices.

The last thing I want to do is get in a dual with a fellow LC patron. At the end of the day, this is a brotherhood and no one needs to show off the size of their balls to win an argument.

The statement I said was "untrue" was

The pricing is interesting as most dealers are below invoice price.

Since only a select group of corporate regional managers (and highers) at TMNA in Plano TX could have that info; I claimed that statement as "untrue" because:
A) no way you could know that, unless you work at TMNA and if you did you would not share that info (here of all places)
B) Why am I selling Heritages within days of them dropping in Indiana for $2000 over invoice at a distance of 2000+ miles away (+shipping costs) being priced thousands more?
C) There is no way you have "seen it online". Although a dealer CAN sell a vehicle below invoice, a dealer CAN NOT advertise it below invoice (on their website/print/or any other 3rd party website). By violating our marketing covenant (advertising below invoice) you are subject to lose three-quarters of your hold back money on every vehicle you sell for that month, which would amount to $75k+ per month at a small dealership and hundreds of thousands per month at larger dealerships. No one violates their covenant....

So let's take a step back and

Go online, call dealers and verify the prices.

1) Edmunds.com which is the biggest data sample of actual sold prices (BMV records) says: you save $4538. Which equates to $4500 over invoice.
So when you say

The pricing is interesting as most dealers are below invoice price.

I assume "most" = ">50%" by definition. How can most be buying under invoice when avg savings is $4500 over invoice? That would take an incredible about of MSRP deals to compensate that average of "below invoice deals".

Addition supporting evidence you are mistaken:

• Edmunds.com says $88,970 is a "Great deal" ----- $6000 more than I sell them for
• Go to Edmunds.com and search: 2020 Land Cruiser, Nationwide Distance, Sort by Lowest Price -> Highest Price, and then let me know how many you see "below invoice which is $80,300-$81,000 depending on color/adds".
• Then as an exercise of futility and to the same on AutoTrader and then on CarGuru

 

[Madtiger]

No. Please check before telling that what I am saying untrue. Go online, call dealers and verify the prices.

You’re right for regular LC. He is talking about Heritage Edition pricing.

 

[desmocruiser]

Thanks for sharing the 2021 information, glad to see it make another year. I also think it may be sign T may not let the LC die in the US and hopes we see the the next iteration with the Land Cruiser badge.

Personally, I think 2020 will be a decent year for Land Cruiser sales, they will sell all they produce as always, just a little quicker largely due to the positive press and the knowledge it has to be near the end of the line!

I wouldn’t expect there will as large a number of leftovers as has been in the past, just an opinion.

 

[Madtiger]

Thanks for sharing the 2021 information, glad to see it make another year. I also think it may be sign T may not let the LC die in the US and hopes we see the the next iteration with the Land Cruiser badge.

Personally, I think 2020 will be a decent year for Land Cruiser sales, they will sell all they produce as always, just a little quicker largely due to the positive press and the knowledge it has to be near the end of the line!

I wouldn’t expect there will as large a number of leftovers as has been in the past, just an opinion.

Not to brag or anything, but I personally had a hand in bringing LC back from obscurity: 2019 Year of LC!

 

[Angelo1]

Untrue

Agreed! I tried a few in my 300mi. radius when i bought mine and the best i found was $5k off MSRP. I’m sure I could have expanded my search to find a better deal or use as Broker friend of mine but a used ‘19 popped up that triggered excitement and end of story FyI- my local dealer had 2 of them new and sold a week after I test drove one. Sales are good.

 

[yonah]

The driving factor is people getting distracted by their phones while driving and running into things as a result. Only a very small number of those are pinning police locations in Waze. There was plenty of discussion among the political classes about distracted driving, but nothing about police locations in Waze.

My post was tongue-in-cheek; a law isn’t going to prevent people from playing with their phones while driving. Daily I see lane drifters and cars tapping into curbs in a locale that mandates hands-free device use while driving. TBH, your political class is more concerned with adding another revenue generating traffic law to the books.

I agree with you that it would be nice to simply pair Waze/Maps with my dash nav screen. The utility of mobile GPS apps makes the LC OEM unit look like a typewriter in comparison.

*fingers crossed for an amazon green, forest/jade green special edition....

How about Amazon Green with Terra interior?

 

[fasteddie2015]

TBH, your political class is more concerned with adding another revenue generating traffic law to the books.

Maybe not the right place, but have to disagree with you. Austin is thick with motorcycle speed traps, had red light cameras (which they've stopped) so I can spot a revenue generator as well as anyone. Distracted driving is another story. Its rare to see someone NOT on their phone in Austin. My only gripe is that its not enforced nearly enough. I'd welcome the chance to report people myself. If it was a revenue generator, they'd have figured out how to enforce it. If any of you think its ok, STOP before you cause harm to someones property or person.

I regularly drive a stretch of undivided road (US 290 and TX21) that probably average a fatal crash per month. Many of the wrecks are head on and involve distracted driving or alcohol. I've rolled up on a few minutes after they happened. Preventable. I dont ever want to be injured or my LC totaled by someone on their phone. My kids drive that stretch as well. I've made my point. The potential for harm really pisses me off.

A short story for those who think its ok to use their smart phones while driving. In Chicago, shortly after cars were invented and took to the streets, a man was hit and killed by a drunk driver. The case went to court and the judge ruled that because the driver was drunk and impaired, he couldn't be held accountable for his actions. Seems ludicrous now, If we're distracted at high speed or in heavy traffic, we're impaired.

</ rant>

 

[Joshuak172]

The last thing I want to do is get in a dual with a fellow LC patron. At the end of the day, this is a brotherhood and no one needs to show off the size of their balls to win an argument.

The statement I said was "untrue" was

Since only a select group of corporate regional managers (and highers) at TMNA in Plano TX could have that info; I claimed that statement as "untrue" because:
A) no way you could know that, unless you work at TMNA and if you did you would not share that info (here of all places)
B) Why am I selling Heritages within days of them dropping in Indiana for $2000 over invoice at a distance of 2000+ miles away (+shipping costs) being priced thousands more?
C) There is no way you have "seen it online". Although a dealer CAN sell a vehicle below invoice, a dealer CAN NOT advertise it below invoice (on their website/print/or any other 3rd party website). By violating our marketing covenant (advertising below invoice) you are subject to lose three-quarters of your hold back money on every vehicle you sell for that month, which would amount to $75k+ per month at a small dealership and hundreds of thousands per month at larger dealerships. No one violates their covenant....

So let's take a step back and

1) Edmunds.com which is the biggest data sample of actual sold prices (BMV records) says: you save $4538. Which equates to $4500 over invoice.
So when you say

I assume "most" = ">50%" by definition. How can most be buying under invoice when avg savings is $4500 over invoice? That would take an incredible about of MSRP deals to compensate that average of "below invoice deals".

Addition supporting evidence you are mistaken:

• Edmunds.com says $88,970 is a "Great deal" ----- $6000 more than I sell them for
• Go to Edmunds.com and search: 2020 Land Cruiser, Nationwide Distance, Sort by Lowest Price -> Highest Price, and then let me know how many you see "below invoice which is $80,300-$81,000 depending on color/adds".
• Then as an exercise of futility and to the same on AutoTrader and then on CarGuru

View attachment 2186020

View attachment 2186021

Eric, crushed it.
On another note, it would be great to hear from a similar person at a Lexus dealer to hear what the plan is for the 2021 LX. It may give us further insight into the fate of the LC.

 

[studio19atx]

The last thing I want to do is get in a dual with a fellow LC patron. At the end of the day, this is a brotherhood and no one needs to show off the size of their balls to win an argument.

The statement I said was "untrue" was

Since only a select group of corporate regional managers (and highers) at TMNA in Plano TX could have that info; I claimed that statement as "untrue" because:
A) no way you could know that, unless you work at TMNA and if you did you would not share that info (here of all places)
B) Why am I selling Heritages within days of them dropping in Indiana for $2000 over invoice at a distance of 2000+ miles away (+shipping costs) being priced thousands more?
C) There is no way you have "seen it online". Although a dealer CAN sell a vehicle below invoice, a dealer CAN NOT advertise it below invoice (on their website/print/or any other 3rd party website). By violating our marketing covenant (advertising below invoice) you are subject to lose three-quarters of your hold back money on every vehicle you sell for that month, which would amount to $75k+ per month at a small dealership and hundreds of thousands per month at larger dealerships. No one violates their covenant....

So let's take a step back and

1) Edmunds.com which is the biggest data sample of actual sold prices (BMV records) says: you save $4538. Which equates to $4500 over invoice.
So when you say

I assume "most" = ">50%" by definition. How can most be buying under invoice when avg savings is $4500 over invoice? That would take an incredible about of MSRP deals to compensate that average of "below invoice deals".

Addition supporting evidence you are mistaken:

• Edmunds.com says $88,970 is a "Great deal" ----- $6000 more than I sell them for
• Go to Edmunds.com and search: 2020 Land Cruiser, Nationwide Distance, Sort by Lowest Price -> Highest Price, and then let me know how many you see "below invoice which is $80,300-$81,000 depending on color/adds".
• Then as an exercise of futility and to the same on AutoTrader and then on CarGuru

View attachment 2186020

View attachment 2186021

All I am going to say is that I am not a dealer or don’t have any inside info as you have. However, dealers have sold under invoice and that is the truth.
“Most” was for the 2020 models, not Heritage Edition in particular.

 

[studawg]

This is welcome news. The 200 is a great Land Cruiser. I am dreading the day that the next one is announced with a quad turbo hybrid inline-5 that only runs on 50% ethanol.

 

[FrazzledHunter]

This is welcome news. The 200 is a great Land Cruiser. I am dreading the day that the next one is announced with a quad turbo hybrid inline-5 that only runs on 50% ethanol.

Ditto.
I suppose it's too much to dream that Toyota will wake up, see the error of their ways, and offer future LC's with a 6.6 or 7.0 L engine.
Just kidding. I know that will never happen.

 

[luke27617]

The last thing I want to do is get in a dual with a fellow LC patron. At the end of the day, this is a brotherhood and no one needs to show off the size of their balls to win an argument.

The statement I said was "untrue" was

Since only a select group of corporate regional managers (and highers) at TMNA in Plano TX could have that info; I claimed that statement as "untrue" because:
A) no way you could know that, unless you work at TMNA and if you did you would not share that info (here of all places)
B) Why am I selling Heritages within days of them dropping in Indiana for $2000 over invoice at a distance of 2000+ miles away (+shipping costs) being priced thousands more?
C) There is no way you have "seen it online". Although a dealer CAN sell a vehicle below invoice, a dealer CAN NOT advertise it below invoice (on their website/print/or any other 3rd party website). By violating our marketing covenant (advertising below invoice) you are subject to lose three-quarters of your hold back money on every vehicle you sell for that month, which would amount to $75k+ per month at a small dealership and hundreds of thousands per month at larger dealerships. No one violates their covenant....

So let's take a step back and

1) Edmunds.com which is the biggest data sample of actual sold prices (BMV records) says: you save $4538. Which equates to $4500 over invoice.
So when you say

I assume "most" = ">50%" by definition. How can most be buying under invoice when avg savings is $4500 over invoice? That would take an incredible about of MSRP deals to compensate that average of "below invoice deals".

Addition supporting evidence you are mistaken:

• Edmunds.com says $88,970 is a "Great deal" ----- $6000 more than I sell them for
• Go to Edmunds.com and search: 2020 Land Cruiser, Nationwide Distance, Sort by Lowest Price -> Highest Price, and then let me know how many you see "below invoice which is $80,300-$81,000 depending on color/adds".
• Then as an exercise of futility and to the same on AutoTrader and then on CarGuru

View attachment 2186020

View attachment 2186021

Eric,
Is the data they judge a great deal or not is based on advertised prices or actual sold prices? As an example the dealer I have bought from advertised 2020 at MSRP but I bought at 3% under invoice. They had one more 2019 which was more aggressively priced so assume they didn't want sabotage 2019 sale by being aggressive on 2020.
TY

 

[Eric Sarjeant]

Eric,
Is the data they judge a great deal or not is based on advertised prices or actual prices sold? As an example the dealer I have bought from advertised 2020 at MSRP but I bought at 3% under invoice. They had one more 2019 which was more aggressively priced so assume they didn't want sabotage 2019 sale by being aggressive on 2020.
TY

Based on BMV/DMV registration data. SO it's accurate on real selling price.... Our wonderful states have found a new revenue stream selling our data to car-buying websites.

 

[luke27617]

Based on BMV/DMV registration data. SO it's accurate on real selling price.... Our wonderful states have found a new revenue stream selling our data to car-buying websites.

Thanks!