2001 LX - Mobil 1 ATF and oil?

[namsag]

Guys I got to ask for a hand here. I have done a lot of searching and skimming but not sure of the right answer. My search and skim skills may be fading.

Vehicle under consideration is a 2001 LX in great shape with 123,000 miles. I have not been very involved with cruisers for a couple of years. On previous cruisers I have just used the "general" Mobil 1 Synthetic 5w30 and ATF.

Apparently my old maintenance logs for my other cruisers were not detailed enough, I wrote "Mobil 1 Synthetic 5w30" and Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF."

Well, now I'm looking at Mobil 1 and there are 5 or 6 or more types of both oil and ATF.

I am thinking the Mobil 1 Truck and SUV might be most appropriate for an LX? I am not looking for High Mileage formulation.

On the ATF, I do not have a 2001 FSM to check ATF spec. It seems like the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF Multi Vehicle Formula may be a likely candidate?

Crazy how many choices there are now.

Would really appreciate advice on what would be best to get.

Thanks, namsag.

 

[Rednexus]

The older Toyota transmissions that you have are pre-WS spec and requires a basic Dexron transmission fluid. I've personally used Valvoline MaxLife ATF (multi-vehicle) in pre- and post-WS Toyota transmissions without issue; it's full synthetic and works fine. In the 4-speed A340F we put it in, shifting was noticeable better than whatever fluid it had in it previously. I'd use whatever fluid you want to that it backwards compatible with the Toyota spec for your transmission. The MaxLife is available at WalMart for <$20 a gallon, so it's cost effective and easy to find. That and their basic gear oil are the only Valvoline products I use, everything else gets Mobil.

No need to worry too much about the oil on these engines. I personally use Mobil 1 5W30HM, change it every 5K, and have zero seal or other oil leaks at 175K. HM oil has seal conditioners that can help reduce leaks on a higher-mileage engine, although I've personally never noticed it stopping any leaks - hard to say if it is or isn't doing anything.

 

[donco]

We bought our 2000 off-lease with 31k miles. At around 50k miles I started doing 4.5 quart ATF drain and fills with Amsoil ATF and subsequently every 2nd or 3rd engine oil change up til about 175k miles, then slacked off. I just did another 4.5 quart drain & fill 2 weeks ago at 241k miles. Old fluid was clean and red. Mostly for peace of mind but so far no issues with the trans. Hope to get many more miles out of it. Mobil 1 5-30 or 10W30 in the engine, 18 month/10k mile intervals.

Edit: I changed the rear diff 2 weeks ago with Amsoil 80/90 gear oil, much quieter and smoother, infamous "clunk" is much quieter. U-joints are good. A little sloppy in the ring & pinion.

 

[Eyedaho]

The older Toyota transmissions that you have are pre-WS spec and requires a basic Dexron transmission fluid. I've personally used Valvoline MaxLife ATF (multi-vehicle) in pre- and post-WS Toyota transmissions without issue; it's full synthetic and works fine. In the 4-speed A340F we put it in, shifting was noticeable better than whatever fluid it had in it previously. I'd use whatever fluid you want to that it backwards compatible with the Toyota spec for your transmission. The MaxLife is available at WalMart for <$20 a gallon, so it's cost effective and easy to find. That and their basic gear oil are the only Valvoline products I use, everything else gets Mobil.

No need to worry too much about the oil on these engines. I personally use Mobil 1 5W30HM, change it every 5K, and have zero seal or other oil leaks at 175K. HM oil has seal conditioners that can help reduce leaks on a higher-mileage engine, although I've personally never noticed it stopping any leaks - hard to say if it is or isn't doing anything.

I would personally avoid high mileage oil if it hasn't been used before. It's not good for seals, and you'll have to keep using it forever. Add AT-205 if you have a seal leak that you're trying to fix without replacing the seal.

 

[nissanh]

I too took extreme care on my 2000 LC's transmission, but the transmissions in 2000 are not reliable until the O/D needle roller bearing is replaced. Search 2000 LC transmission failures. IF it has been already rebuilt, then no worries.

 

[Rednexus]

I would personally avoid high mileage oil if it hasn't been used before. It's not good for seals, and you'll have to keep using it forever. Add AT-205 if you have a seal leak that you're trying to fix without replacing the seal.

Not my experience at all with HM oil. I've used it intermittently (no leaks when normal oil was used), used it on vehicles with some pre-existing leaks (it didn't stop them, but they were from gaskets and not seals), and used it on vehicles without leaks (no new leaks). I did have a rear main drip on my 2UZ that didn't dry up with HM oil but did dry up with AT-205. AT-205 is a seal conditioner (at a very high dose), presumably similar to the lower-dose conditioners used in HM oil. Come to think of it (other than the rear main seal drip from my UZ), I've never had a seal leak from any of the vehicles I've owned.

 

[namsag]

Thanks guys this is good stuff.

 

[2001LC]

I agree: Avoid HM oil. Stuff should come with a warning.

When I first heard about the bad effects of HM oil, in mud. I called Mobil One support. I actually called twice and spoke with two different techs. I got the same answer each time: (read from Mobil manual) "If HM oil used 2 for two oil changes. It must then be used for life of engine."

According to AT-205 tech support (under old ownership): "AT-205 is a plasticizer same as we use in our seal manufacturing. It adds back what time dries/leaches out." "HM oil has a petroleum base seal modifier additive, that swells rubber" "AT-205 only needs to be use once in 7 to 10 years, at recommend ration on bottles. It can be left in or flushed, after minimum of 5 hours use time."

I personally have had more than one 4.7L 100 series, come to me leaking badly. I' mean leaking at every rubber seal. When asked if they used HM, answer was yes, and more than once. We've seen some help, by flushing with two cans of BG EPR, then adding At-205 with fresh oil.

You'll also hear:
Do not switch from conventional (AKA: regular, Deno) to Synthetic oil. It will cause engine to leak. This is somewhat true. If regular oil has not been changed, on average ever 3K miles. It building up deposit (gunk) on inside of engine. The gunk covers seal also, leaching out the plasticizer drying out the rubber. The rubber then shrinks and hardens. The gunk is plugging the leaks.

Synthetic oil does not break down like convention oil. It actually cleans the gunk from your engine. When old hard shrunken rubber seal, get gunk cleaned from them. They will often leak. Typicaly the cure is add AT-205, to revitalize old rubber seals.

For AT I use:
98-02 Mobil One MV ATF (Great stuff) or Mobil MV full synthetic (good).
2003 Toyota IV or Mobil MV full synthetic.
04-up Toyota WS or Mobil MV full synthetic.

Note: Toyota AT fluid is made by Exxon Mobil.

 

[Eyedaho]

I agree: Avoid HM oil. Stuff should come with a warning.

When I first heard about the bad effects of HM oil, in mud. I called Mobil One support. I actually called twice and spoke with two different techs. I got the same answer each time: (read from Mobil manual) "If HM oil used 2 for two oil changes. It must then be used for life of engine."

According to AT-205 tech support (under old ownership): "AT-205 is a plasticizer same as we use in our seal manufacturing. It adds back what time dries/leaches out." "HM oil has a petroleum base seal modifier additive, that swells rubber" "AT-205 only needs to be use once in 7 to 10 years, at recommend ration on bottles. It can be left in or flushed, after minimum of 5 hours use time."

I personally have had more than one 4.7L 100 series, come to me leaking badly. I' mean leaking at every rubber seal. When asked if they used HM, answer was yes, and more than once. We've seen some help, by flushing with two cans of BG EPR, then adding At-205 with fresh oil.

You'll also hear:
Do not switch from conventional (AKA: regular, Deno) to Synthetic oil. It will cause engine to leak. This is somewhat true. If regular oil has not been changed, on average ever 3K miles. It building up deposit (gunk) on inside of engine. The gunk covers seal also, leaching out the plasticizer drying out the rubber. The rubber then shrinks and hardens. The gunk is plugging the leaks.

Synthetic oil does not break down like convention oil. It actually cleans the gunk from your engine. When old hard shrunken rubber seal, get gunk cleaned from them. They will often leak. Typicaly the cure is add AT-205, to revitalize old rubber seals.

For AT I use:
98-02 Mobil One MV ATF (Great stuff) or Mobil MV full synthetic (good).
2003 Toyota IV or Mobil MV full synthetic.
04-up Toyota WS or Mobil MV full synthetic.

Note: Toyota AT fluid is made by Exxon Mobil.

@2001LC I was hoping you'd stop by and say that!

I'm curious why you prefer the M1 synthetic blend over the full synthetic ATF for 98-02. Closer viscosity to the Dexron III?

 

[Rednexus]

I agree: Avoid HM oil. Stuff should come with a warning.

When I first heard about the bad effects of HM oil, in mud. I called Mobil One support. I actually called twice and spoke with two different techs. I got the same answer each time: (read from Mobil manual) "If HM oil used 2 for two oil changes. It must then be used for life of engine."

According to AT-205 tech support (under old ownership): "AT-205 is a plasticizer same as we use in our seal manufacturing. It adds back what time dries/leaches out." "HM oil has a petroleum base seal modifier additive, that swells rubber" "AT-205 only needs to be use once in 7 to 10 years, at recommend ration on bottles. It can be left in or flushed, after minimum of 5 hours use time."

I personally have had more than one 4.7L 100 series, come to me leaking badly. I' mean leaking at every rubber seal. When asked if they used HM, answer was yes, and more than once. We've seen some help, by flushing with two cans of BG EPR, then adding At-205 with fresh oil.

You'll also hear:
Do not switch from conventional (AKA: regular, Deno) to Synthetic oil. It will cause engine to leak. This is somewhat true. If regular oil has not been changed, on average ever 3K miles. It building up deposit (gunk) on inside of engine. The gunk covers seal also, leaching out the plasticizer drying out the rubber. The rubber then shrinks and hardens. The gunk is plugging the leaks.

Synthetic oil does not break down like convention oil. It actually cleans the gunk from your engine. When old hard shrunken rubber seal, get gunk cleaned from them. They will often leak. Typicaly the cure is add AT-205, to revitalize old rubber seals.

For AT I use:
98-02 Mobil One MV ATF (Great stuff) or Mobil MV full synthetic (good).
2003 Toyota IV or Mobil MV full synthetic.
04-up Toyota WS or Mobil MV full synthetic.

Note: Toyota AT fluid is made by Exxon Mobil.

My leak-free 175K 2UZ, with 40K of that under my ownership and 5K oil changes, plus my experience with other vehicles (including switching back and forth) is contradictory to your statements. Do you have evidence that the HM oil caused the leaks, or perhaps it was poor maintenance prior to using HM oil causing a building of gunk on the seals as you have indicated? Were the leaks there before the HM oil? Also, do you specifically know what seal conditioners/additive M1 HM has relative to AT-205? Did AT-205 say M1 HM uses a seal swelling agent or did that come from Mobil? What specifically about AT-205 is so much better than the lower-dose conditioners in M1 HM?

From the horses mouth, the HM oil has a higher base stock viscosity and some conditioner additives that reduce seal leakage. Nothing about seal swellers.

High mileage oils FAQs

Get the answers to frequently questions about Mobil™ high mileage motor oils.

www.mobil.com

 

[Eyedaho]

Here's the composition of AT-205, as per the MSDS (linked below). Glycol ethers, which are commonly used as plasticizers.

Mobile is a little mum on how their seal conditioners work, but here's Valvoline:

When to Start Using High Mileage Oil: A Practical Guide - Valvoline™ Global Europe - EN

Many experts recommend using high-mileage oils after 75,000+ miles, but there are also a few more factors to consider.

www.valvolineglobal.com

 

[Rednexus]

For the record, AT-205 is indeed great stuff, and (in my experience), more effective than HM oil alone. Next time I change TC and diff fluid I'll likely add some there, and to my transmission as well when I do a fluid change in the future, as I have some minor seepage on a few of those components.

I could just as easily switch my argument to "HM oil provides no benefits", as I've noticed really no big difference either way. If the HM oil is doing something to the seals it's very, very minor - my rear main dripped for a year on HM oil, then immediately dried up with the AT-205 and has stayed dry for ~2 years now (still on HM oil). My theory is that the seal conditioner in the M1 HM oil is a very light dose. Hard to say if it is helping my seals - other than they don't really leak on any of my vehicles. That could also be a false positive is there is no way to prove the seals would have started leaking if I had kept using normal oil. Either way, in my vehicles, there has been zero indication that the HM oil has hurt anything at all.

 

[2001LC]

@2001LC I was hoping you'd stop by and say that!

I'm curious why you prefer the M1 synthetic blend over the full synthetic ATF for 98-02. Closer viscosity to the Dexron III?

M1 does not have a blend!
Mobil 1 (M1) oils, are all full synthetic.
Mobil, offers convention, blended and full synthetic.
About 2 years ago. Mobil reformulated their MV ATF blend, to a full synthetic.

I spoke with Mobil about the difference between them and Mobil 1. They said Mobil 1 is stable to a slightly higher temp. Mobil is one shelve below Mobil 1.

Mobil MV full synthetic ATF is the only one rated for: All years on the 100 & 200 series. Toyota III (Dex III) 98-02, Toyota IV (03) and Toyota WS (04-up).

I would use Mobil One MV ATF in all, but they 've not rated it for all.

Mobil One does have a full synthetic WS ATF. But it is not sold in the USA.

Some say Toyota WS ATF is a full synthetic. I do not think so, for two reasons, which I'd love to be wrong.
1) Price, which WS ATF is cheaper than full synthetic from Mobil or Mobile 1. All are made by Exxon Mobil.
2) Bottles do no say they're synthetic. Again Toyota is to proud not disclose on the bottle.

 

[Eyedaho]

M1 does not have a blend!
Mobil 1 (M1) oils, are all full synthetic.
Mobil, offers convention, blended and full synthetic.
About 2 years ago. Mobil reformulated their MV ATF blend, to a full synthetic.

I spoke with Mobil about the difference between them and Mobil 1. They said Mobil 1 is stable to a slightly higher temp. Mobil is one shelve below Mobil 1.

Mobil MV full synthetic ATF is the only one rated for: All years on the 100 & 200 series. Toyota III (Dex III) 98-02, Toyota IV (03) and Toyota WS (04-up).

I would use Mobil One MV ATF in all, but they 've not rated it for all.

Mobil One does have a full synthetic WS ATF. But it is not sold in the USA.

Some say Toyota WS ATF is a full synthetic. I do not think so, for two reasons, which I'd love to be wrong.
1) Price, which WS ATF is cheaper than full synthetic from Mobil or Mobile 1. All are made by Exxon Mobil.
2) Bottles do no say they're synthetic. Again Toyota is to proud not disclose on the bottle.

That makes sense. I got a little confused by this:

"For AT I use:
98-02 Mobil One MV ATF (Great stuff) or Mobil MV full synthetic (good)."

I get what you meant now though. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[2001LC]

My leak-free 175K 2UZ, with 40K of that under my ownership and 5K oil changes, plus my experience with other vehicles (including switching back and forth) is contradictory to your statements. Do you have evidence that the HM oil caused the leaks, or perhaps it was poor maintenance prior to using HM oil causing a building of gunk on the seals as you have indicated? Were the leaks there before the HM oil? Also, do you specifically know what seal conditioners/additive M1 HM has relative to AT-205? Did AT-205 say M1 HM uses a seal swelling agent or did that come from Mobil? What specifically about AT-205 is so much better than the lower-dose conditioners in M1 HM?

From the horses mouth, the HM oil has a higher base stock viscosity and some conditioner additives that reduce seal leakage. Nothing about seal swellers.

High mileage oils FAQs

Get the answers to frequently questions about Mobil™ high mileage motor oils.

www.mobil.com

I'm happy HM oils has worked for you.

But I will continue to warn all: DO NOT USE HIGH MILEAGE oil.

I've explained how I first learned of damaging effects of High Mileage oil use. Which was in this forum!
I gave info from my vetting of the info. Where I was personally on the phone twice at different times with two different techs at Mobil 1. Wherein they, reading from their manuals: "If used for two oil changes, must then be used for life of engine".
It was many years ago, but not likely any change since. You can call them and ask yourself.

Think about that statement form Mobil 1. HM "Must be then use for life of engine".

I gave specifics of 4.7L I've seen the affected by HM oil.

You can also search mud and google High Mileage oil. You'll find many testimonials of the bad effects of High Mileage oil.

Also look at why they created HM oil. Also what "they" consider high mileage engine; "75,000 miles. Which is a typical 5 year old vehicle. 100 series 4.7L at 5 year old, is barley broken in and typically do not leak or use a drop.

If one wants a good additive, beyond that of Mobil 1 non HM. I use BG MOA. It helps keep parts lubricated during start-up.

 

[sunfic]

Not my experience at all with HM oil. I've used it intermittently (no leaks when normal oil was used), used it on vehicles with some pre-existing leaks (it didn't stop them, but they were from gaskets and not seals), and used it on vehicles without leaks (no new leaks). I did have a rear main drip on my 2UZ that didn't dry up with HM oil but did dry up with AT-205. AT-205 is a seal conditioner (at a very high dose), presumably similar to the lower-dose conditioners used in HM oil. Come to think of it (other than the rear main seal drip from my UZ), I've never had a seal leak from any of the vehicles I've owned.

you rear main seal leakage is caused by HM oil. At-205 is safe for this engine but not high mileage oil.

the seal reconditioner material are totally different from HM oild and AT-205

 

[Rednexus]

you rear main seal leakage is caused by HM oil. At-205 is safe for this engine but not high mileage oil.

the seal reconditioner material are totally different from HM oild and AT-205

My rear main seal is not currently leaking, neither are any of my other seals or gaskets. Per my post the leak dried up 2 years ago. The leak was also there when I bought the GX - no clue what kind of oil the P.O. used.

Please provide specific information on which seal conditioner M1 HM oil uses and how it is different than AT-205.

 

[Rednexus]

I'm happy HM oils has worked for you.

But I will continue to warn all: DO NOT USE HIGH MILEAGE oil.

I've explained how I first learned of damaging effects of High Mileage oil use. Which was in this forum!
I gave info from my vetting of the info. Where I was personally on the phone twice at different times with two different techs at Mobil 1. Wherein they, reading from their manuals: "If used for two oil changes, must then be used for life of engine".
It was many years ago, but not likely any change since. You can call them and ask yourself.

Think about that statement form Mobil 1. HM "Must be then use for life of engine".

I gave specifics of 4.7L I've seen the affected by HM oil.

You can also search mud and google High Mileage oil. You'll find many testimonials of the bad effects of High Mileage oil.

Also look at why they created HM oil. Also what "they" consider high mileage engine; "75,000 miles. Which is a typical 5 year old vehicle. 100 series 4.7L at 5 year old, is barley broken in and typically do not leak or use a drop.

If one wants a good additive, beyond that of Mobil 1 non HM. I use BG MOA. It helps keep parts lubricated during start-up.

That is fine, however the specific questions I posed were not answered, the supporting information is correlational (not causational) and is lacking things such as the maintenance history of the vehicles which you noted had the leaks, what brand of HM oil they are used, information form Mobil about the additive package vs. AT-205, and information about when the leaks appeared. When the statements are absolute ("DO NOT USE" in all caps), they should be supported with detailed information. If the information is not provided or not available, neither I or others can verify the claims that are being made.

Until someone can provide the info about what is in Mobil 1 HM vs. AT-205, it's a moot point. No information has been provided to demonstrate that M1 HM has any seal swelling agents in it. In fact, the information from Mobil 1 is contradictory to what folks it has said in this tread (implies it's a seal conditioner not a seal sweller, and nothing on the M1 HM bottle nor their website says anything about having to use it for the "life or engine").

If you (or someone else) has this information, please provide it, as I am very curious to know what they are using and how it may be affecting the engines I am and have been using it in.

 

[Bisho]

I know suggesting to folks which oil to use is the equivalent of religion and politics. Mobil 1 was once upon a time the cats meow (as long as you didn't use it in an airplane engine), but there are many better oils on the market today. Project Farm did a great youtube series on synthetic oils. I choose to run Pennzoil Ultra Premium, now that they took Rotella Gas Truck off the market.

 

[Eyedaho]

I know suggesting to folks which oil to use is the equivalent of religion and politics. Mobil 1 was once upon a time the cats meow (as long as you didn't use it in an airplane engine), but there are many better oils on the market today. Project Farm did a great youtube series on synthetic oils. I choose to run Pennzoil Ultra Premium, now that they took Rotella Gas Truck off the market.

View attachment 3463840

Seems weird to do a bracket instead of just ranking them. Just tell me which one to buy!