200 - Last of a Great Breed

[185]

To keep things in perspective:
-average transaction price these days on all new car and truck transactions is around $48k. The 250 starts at just $7k more in theory, and is built on TNGA-F which is optimized to spread out development costs as much as possible.
-The price after inflation for a new 200 series LC would be $93k, almost double. Program budget to build in quality would also be higher.
-The used 200 market is fierce and its profits are not realized by Toyota or its affiliates. Why not tap that market with a rig that costs the same as a used 200, get a bunch of new owners into the brand, who may purchase other products? These new buyers will forgive the quality sacrifices after proudly purchasing a new rig with factory backed platform and deeply integrated aftermarket support.
-Previous gen owners have their legendary rigs to themselves without speculators ruining the landcruiser enjoyment factor for new would be owners.
-perceived value would be on the owner. Land cruisers are synonymous with quality, dependability and reliability. However to reap those benefits you need to keep an LC till its proverbial wheels fall off. These days, most folks are not doing that. Keeping it past the warranty is a struggle, and if you look at the new car ownership trends 87% of all new Toyotas are leases. When you get into BOF/6K lb weight class owners tend to lease even more. Why engineer in decades of longevity when the first sale, where the company can realize profits wont keep it pass 24-36 months.

 

[ToothDr]

yup let the poor people enjoy their 250

That’s one reason Toyota created the Prado platform back in the 90s. A cheaper alternative to the 80 series back in the day. And of course as mentioned not top of the range materials etc. 200 series was the end of the full sized “Toyota Land Cruiser DNA” in the USA market which can be traced all the way back to the 60s. Although the Lexus lx 600 shares 300 underpinnings, not the true successor to the 200 series.

 

[peneumbra2]

To keep things in perspective:
-average transaction price these days on all new car and truck transactions is around $48k. The 250 starts at just $7k more in theory, and is built on TNGA-F which is optimized to spread out development costs as much as possible.
-The price after inflation for a new 200 series LC would be $93k, almost double. Program budget to build in quality would also be higher.
-The used 200 market is fierce and its profits are not realized by Toyota or its affiliates. Why not tap that market with a rig that costs the same as a used 200, get a bunch of new owners into the brand, who may purchase other products? These new buyers will forgive the quality sacrifices after proudly purchasing a new rig with factory backed platform and deeply integrated aftermarket support.
-Previous gen owners have their legendary rigs to themselves without speculators ruining the landcruiser enjoyment factor for new would be owners.
-perceived value would be on the owner. Land cruisers are synonymous with quality, dependability and reliability. However to reap those benefits you need to keep an LC till its proverbial wheels fall off. These days, most folks are not doing that. Keeping it past the warranty is a struggle, and if you look at the new car ownership trends 87% of all new Toyotas are leases. When you get into BOF/6K lb weight class owners tend to lease even more. Why engineer in decades of longevity when the first sale, where the company can realize profits wont keep it pass 24-36 months.

I'm sure what he's saying, but I completely agree with it.

 

[gasman4u]

To keep things in perspective:
-average transaction price these days on all new car and truck transactions is around $48k. The 250 starts at just $7k more in theory, and is built on TNGA-F which is optimized to spread out development costs as much as possible.
-The price after inflation for a new 200 series LC would be $93k, almost double. Program budget to build in quality would also be higher.
-The used 200 market is fierce and its profits are not realized by Toyota or its affiliates. Why not tap that market with a rig that costs the same as a used 200, get a bunch of new owners into the brand, who may purchase other products? These new buyers will forgive the quality sacrifices after proudly purchasing a new rig with factory backed platform and deeply integrated aftermarket support.
-Previous gen owners have their legendary rigs to themselves without speculators ruining the landcruiser enjoyment factor for new would be owners.
-perceived value would be on the owner. Land cruisers are synonymous with quality, dependability and reliability. However to reap those benefits you need to keep an LC till its proverbial wheels fall off. These days, most folks are not doing that. Keeping it past the warranty is a struggle, and if you look at the new car ownership trends 87% of all new Toyotas are leases. When you get into BOF/6K lb weight class owners tend to lease even more. Why engineer in decades of longevity when the first sale, where the company can realize profits wont keep it pass 24-36 months.

But Muh hai-bred GaS sAVinGz!!!!

 

[185]

Fuel economy untouched, but moooorreee powahhhh, whether onboard or under the go pedal. Same story with the LX600. Toyota has done a terrible job at customer education at how tgna-F hybrids and ice vehicles work. They just want a sale with minimal effort these days.

 

[gasman4u]

View attachment 3732664

Fuel economy untouched, but moooorreee powahhhh, whether onboard or under the go pedal. Same story with the LX600. Toyota has done a terrible job at customer education at how tgna-F hybrids and ice vehicles work. They just want a sale with minimal effort these days.

“I am an alien” one of the criminally underrated bits of that legendary series!!!

 

[ryanCA]

That’s one reason Toyota created the Prado platform back in the 90s. A cheaper alternative to the 80 series back in the day. And of course as mentioned not top of the range materials etc. 200 series was the end of the full sized “Toyota Land Cruiser DNA” in the USA market which can be traced all the way back to the 60s. Although the Lexus lx 600 shares 300 underpinnings, not the true successor to the 200 series.

you dont think the 300 series is a true successor to the 200 series?

 

[ToothDr]

you dont think the 300 series is a true successor to the 200 series?

The Lexus version. Not the 300 series Toyota Land Cruiser.

 

[willstroo]

I drove the 300 series LandCruiser (Australia, with the diesel) and was completely underwhelmed. Bought a Lx570 a week later. In Aus:

- 300 series with diesel: $140k drive away
- Lx600 petrol: circa $200k drive away

My 2016 Lx570 - $72k drive away, and was twice as nice an experience to drive. Solid like a tank, confidence inspiring, beautiful (I think). Now with new LC rims and fatty tyres it’s simply epic.

I love this thing.

 

[W4632018]

The Lexus version. Not the 300 series Toyota Land Cruiser.

The new Armada is the true replacement for the 200 series in the USA. It’s now finally a patrol. My 2c

 

[Supra Turbo]

The new Armada is the true replacement for the 200 series in the USA. It’s now finally a patrol. My 2c

I understand why you might think that, but IMO - adding a rear locker might bring an Armada closer to Patrol, but a 200 series Land Cruiser replacement it is not. To me, the closest replacement if it can even be called that is the GX550 OT, but even that's a stretch.

 

[MCtree]

I drove the 300 series LandCruiser (Australia, with the diesel) and was completely underwhelmed.

Willstroo,
Would you expand on this? What was wrong with the 300?
I have been thinking that the LX600 was the best successor to the LC200 available to us.

 

[Artie]

I just looked up the new Armada…. Typed up a comment, deleted it. The title of this thread sums it up.

 

[Boston Mangler]

I really do feel like the 200 is the last of its kind that we will see, at least from Toyota. For all of the negative on-line articles over the years about it being a dinosaur, clunky, lacking technology, etc., it's the most solid, reliable, tank of a truck that exists. I have owned several 200 series, buying my first in August 2009, and have driven one essentially ever since, minus a 9 month period when I lost my mind and bought a Range Rover. My current 200 is a 2019 and I love it as much as the day I got it.

I bought a 250 and kept it for 6 days before deciding to trade it back in. It's not that the 250 is not a nice truck, but it is also not like a 200. I love the V8, I love the noise the doors make when you slam them closed, I love the tailgate. I love the fact that it's basic in many ways but also luxurious in many ways. Take the factory stereos (especially on LX but also on LC). The leather seats. The overall heavy feel of the steering. It is just a solid beast of a truck. Even if they did bring the 300 here as an LC, it's not the same thing. The twin turbo V6, etc. versus the old school engine and components in our trucks. The lack of a tailgate, etc.

It's a shame that Toyota had to make decisions based on EPA regulations and whatever else, but I am for one thankful for the fact I have a 200 and can keep it a long time. I have had my truck almost 5 years and it only has 67,000 miles on it. I plan to drive it until it won't go any more.

View attachment 3722279

Those wheels look so sexy non gold

 

[stonepa]

Willstroo,
Would you expand on this? What was wrong with the 300?
I have been thinking that the LX600 was the best successor to the LC200 available to us.

Especially the Overtrail version of the LX600 and LX700.

 

[W4632018]

I understand why you might think that, but IMO - adding a rear locker might bring an Armada closer to Patrol, but a 200 series Land Cruiser replacement it is not. To me, the closest replacement if it can even be called that is the GX550 OT, but even that's a stretch.

I don’t think so. In my opinion, there are two “successors” until/unless we get a real 300.

The LX600 is the first that comes to mind for reasons that everyone here already knows. But it has two problems that make it not a clear successor to me: 1) It is a compromised product by way of its completely impractical front grille
2) Gaudy exterior and image. The appeal of the LC was it not being completely obnoxious yet extremely comfortable and capable. The. LX600 is in my opinions the most obnoxious looking bof vehicle on sale.
-The 200 is from the factory ready to tackle any terrain, even in stock tires, and the Toyota badge and exterior design is understated and powerful.

The 2025 Armada/Patrol. It has a comparable, yet not equal, reputation for reliability and capability throughout the world where the real models were sold (ME, AUS, etc). It has 3 rows, better out of the box performance in Pro4X trim than a 200 (rear locker standard), and is cheaper than a 200 series.
Glaring issue: it’s not a toyota.

GX550 is just not comparable from what I’ve read. Between that engine, poor build quality, gaudy exterior, 2 rows, impractical bumper… problems too numerous to a be successor.

I believe the new 2025+ Armada is the best overall successor to the 200 series for the same reasons I purchased a 200.

 

[2021 LC200]

For me a 2025 Nissan Armada or the Infinity model is not at all a worthy replacement of the 200 series, since it is a V6 and Nissan is no more the same with Renault getting involved more and more.

Then something about taste, which I dread bringing forward as it maybe the attraction of the same for many of you. I just happen to find the fender feature extremely ugly and they have kept it on every update. I would rather buy a Toyota Corolla than be seen in this.

 

[W4632018]

For me a 2025 Nissan Armada or the Infinity model is not at all a worthy replacement of the 200 series, since it is a V6 and Nissan is no more the same with Renault getting involved more and more.

Then something about taste, which I dread bringing forward as it maybe the attraction of the same for many of you. I just happen to find the fender feature extremely ugly and they have kept it on every update. I would rather buy a Toyota Corolla than be seen in this.
View attachment 3814487

View attachment 3814483

View attachment 3814482

The true successor to the 200, the 300, has a V6. So the fact that the Armada has a V6 does not rule it out. Not a fan of the fender, but as far as aesthetics go, it’s a couple magnitudes less offensive than a snowplow Lexus grille.

Also, the Armada/Patrol are historically much more reliable and special than basic Nissans. And from what I’ve read, the biggest issue with modern Nissan cars are the jatco CVT’s, which the armada has never had.

 

[2021 LC200]

The true successor to the 200, the 300, has a V6. So the fact that the Armada has a V6 does not rule it out. Not a fan of the fender, but as far as aesthetics go, it’s a couple magnitudes less offensive than a snowplow Lexus grille.

Also, the Armada/Patrol are historically much more reliable and special than basic Nissans. And from what I’ve read, the biggest issue with modern Nissan cars are the jatco CVT’s, which the armada has never had.

Tastes differ. For me it is beyond ugly and they would have to pay me to drive one.

I do find the Lexus design acceptable, though much prefer the LC version of the 200 and 300 series.

 

[W4632018]

Tastes differ. For me it is beyond ugly and they would have to pay me to drive one.

I do find the Lexus design acceptable, though much prefer the LC version of the 200 and 300 series.

Looks are indeed subjective