200,000 Mile Full Transmission Flush or Drain and Fill?

[CruiserKentucky]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and I recently purchased a 2013 200 Series from the original owner. The rig currently has 209,900 miles. The original owner did the original transmission flush at 129,000 miles. The rig has zero known issues with the transmission and seems to shift perfectly driving down the road.

What are your thoughts on a full transmission flush vs. a drain and fill?

I have searched through the forum and have found some mixed responses on which one is the best way to go. I am concerned that a full flush could potentially cause debris to clog the lines and lead to some serious issues. I have spoken to several Master Techs at my local Toyota Dealership and they have all recommended a full flush.

Pics for attention.

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

Fill and drain

 

[CruiserKentucky]

Fill and drain

Thank you for the input. Shouldn't you drain before you fill?

 

[gaijin]

Hello,

I am new to this forum and I recently purchased a 2013 200 Series from the original owner. The rig currently has 209,900 miles. The original owner did the original transmission flush at 129,000 miles. The rig has zero known issues with the transmission and seems to shift perfectly driving down the road.

What are your thoughts on a full transmission flush vs. a drain and fill?

I have searched through the forum and have found some mixed responses on which one is the best way to go. I am concerned that a full flush could potentially cause debris to clog the lines and lead to some serious issues. I have spoken to several Master Techs at my local Toyota Dealership and they have all recommended a full flush.

Pics for attention.

View attachment 3923715

View attachment 3923717

View attachment 3923718

I agree with the Drain and Fill.

If you know what fluid was used by the original owner at 129,000 miles, go ahead and use that. If you don't know, then I highly recommend using Toyota brand ATF-WS.

Semper Fi

HTH

 

[CruiserKentucky]

I agree with the Drain and Fill.

If you know what fluid was used by the original owner at 129,000 miles, go ahead and use that. If you don't know, then I highly recommend using Toyota brand ATF-WS.

Semper Fi

HTH

Thanks! It was done at a Toyota Dealership at 129,000 so I am sure that is the fluid they used. I will be having a Toyota Master Tech do the work for me this time as well.

 

[doru]

I personally do not see a problem with full flush done properly. You have 80k miles from last one.
If you do drain and refill, you'll have to do a couple of them over a period of time.

 

[slipkid13]

Never Do THIS To Your Toyota and Lexus Transmission | Do's and Don'ts For Transmission Fluid

 

[CruiserKentucky]

I personally do not see a problem with full flush done properly. You have 80k miles from last one.
If you do drain and refill, you'll have to do a couple of them over a period of time.

I guess my concern with the full flush is the potential for lines getting clogged. I’m also worried that the “gritty” particles inside the transmission that help it to catch would potentially get flushed out, and can cause it to start slipping.

 

[ceylonfj40nut]

No need to risk dislodging crap into circuits. All you need to do is refresh the fluids as much as possible.

 

[NikP]

I am in the same boat as you. I've done two drain and fills starting at 220,000 miles with no problems and getting ready to do another one with my 225,000 mile oil change. I've saved all my oil if for some reason I have any issues and need to get back to where I started by adding back oil with friction particles floating around in it.

 

[Valgrind]

I'm at 225k... tbh I am very nervous about doing any drain and fill before because i have no records of it being done. I have heard that it can make the clutches slip if its waiting too long.
Still not sure what to do, leaning towards doing a drain and fill with ws
What is the capacity on a drain and fill?

 

[mceagle555]

Drain & fill. You'll get about 4-5 qts of fluid out on each exchange. Toyota WS Fluid.

If you've never done the drain/fill yourself, need to go through the level-check procedure to ensure it has the correct amount. Those who have verified the level in the past via drain/fill, typically measure what comes out and put the same amount back in.

 

[doru]

My point is that although the rig has 200k the fluid was flushed before.
The flush is actually a gentle procedure; you do not forcefully flush anything. The full procedure starts with dropping the pan and cleaning. You should also replace the filter while in there.
The concern with the flush is that the high concentration of new fluid might dissolve/dislodge larger particles from the clutches or somewhere else. While the drain/refill is diluting the new fluid with the remaining old fluid. ATF does contain detergents to remove varnish from those clutches (preventing glazing) but at a much lower concentration than engine oil about 1/15 to 1/20 lower.
So, if you never replace the fluid at 200k go with the drain/refill.
If memory serves the manual says change fluid every 60k. Given that I do not wheel or tow I'm doing a flush every 100k.

 

[gasman4u]

Assuming the Tundra uses the same transmission, I've seen videos where the filter is changed and is effectively nothing more than a screen. If you're dropping the pan, sure change it. If you're not, IMO you should leave the transmission closed and NOT just drop the pan to change the rock catching filter. My $0.02, HTH.

 

[Mingus Dew]

My point is that although the rig has 200k the fluid was flushed before.
The flush is actually a gentle procedure; you do not forcefully flush anything. The full procedure starts with dropping the pan and cleaning. You should also replace the filter while in there.
The concern with the flush is that the high concentration of new fluid might dissolve/dislodge larger particles from the clutches or somewhere else. While the drain/refill is diluting the new fluid with the remaining old fluid. ATF does contain detergents to remove varnish from those clutches (preventing glazing) but at a much lower concentration than engine oil about 1/15 to 1/20 lower.
So, if you never replace the fluid at 200k go with the drain/refill.
If memory serves the manual says change fluid every 60k. Given that I do not wheel or tow I'm doing a flush every 100k.

Yeah I think the term "flush" is a bit misleading as it implies that exterior pressure is being used to forcibly clean and drain the tranny.

I don't know much about this but my limited understanding is that most modern ATF full replacements are done using exchange machines where no outside pressure is introduced into the system. The machine just ensures that all of the old fluid is replaced with new fluid, which obviously a drain and fill will not achieve.

Seems to me that if putting completely fresh fluid in the tranny causes a problem then you are likely already in hot water and just waiting for another issue. But maybe I'm wrong on that.

P.S. I think manual says 60k miles if you are towing or otherwise using the truck in heavy service. If you're not doing that, Toyota says ATF is lifetime fluid (LOL).

 

[mceagle555]

I've personally changed the filter (around 150k miles). Agree it is not much more than a mesh item.

If I were at 200K, I would leave the tranny sealed and just drain/fill. The greater risk of changing the filter is actually snapping one of the many bolts (13 if I recall) that holds the lower housing on. Note: Anyone that does attempt to change the filter I strongly recommend doing two things:

1. Use rust penetrant on the bolts 2-3 days BEFORE you drop the tranny pan
2. Have replacement bolts on hand (Cheap insurance)

 

[CruiserKentucky]

I'm at 225k... tbh I am very nervous about doing any drain and fill before because i have no records of it being done. I have heard that it can make the clutches slip if its waiting too long.
Still not sure what to do, leaning towards doing a drain and fill with ws
What is the capacity on a drain and fill?

A drain and fill will only replace 30-40% of the fluid. If you don’t know the history you can always have someone check the coloring of it. They can usually tell if it’s been serviced before based on how dark the fluid is.

I have a 2012 Tacoma as well and was not sure of the transmission service history. Had a Toyota Master Tech check the fluid for me. He said it’s too dark and was likely never serviced so I have left that rig alone.

 

[CruiserKentucky]

Yeah I think the term "flush" is a bit misleading as it implies that exterior pressure is being used to forcibly clean and drain the tranny.

I don't know much about this but my limited understanding is that most modern ATF full replacements are done using exchange machines where no outside pressure is introduced into the system. The machine just ensures that all of the old fluid is replaced with new fluid, which obviously a drain and fill will not achieve.

Seems to me that if putting completely fresh fluid in the tranny causes a problem then you are likely already in hot water and just waiting for another issue. But maybe I'm wrong on that.

P.S. I think manual says 60k miles if you are towing or otherwise using the truck in heavy service. If you're not doing that, Toyota says ATF is lifetime fluid (LOL).

Yes, a true flush uses a machine that replaces 1 quart of fluid at a time. (Empties 1 quart of old fluid then cycles 1 quart of new fluid).

I tore my owners manual apart and couldn’t find any information on transmission service except 1 section that says you should check, and potentially service, the transmission fluid at 120,000 miles, only if you are towing frequently/ loading down the vehicle.

I’m not sure this thread has helped me decide what to do, but it is a great discussion.

 

[CruiserKentucky]

I've personally changed the filter (around 150k miles). Agree it is not much more than a mesh item.

If I were at 200K, I would leave the tranny sealed and just drain/fill. The greater risk of changing the filter is actually snapping one of the many bolts (13 if I recall) that holds the lower housing on. Note: Anyone that does attempt to change the filter I strongly recommend doing two things:

1. Use rust penetrant on the bolts 2-3 days BEFORE you drop the tranny pan
2. Have replacement bolts on hand (Cheap insurance)

That is good to consider for sure. Thanks.

 

[doru]

You should look in the Warranty service manual not the owners manual.
Here it is from my 2013 manual