1HZ-T vs 1HD-T ( IDI vs DI )

[crushers]

lets debate this a bit (just for fun):
1790kg weight of a 70 shorty
1750kg weight of a 40 shorty

1885mm height of a 70 shorty
1905mm height of a 40 shorty (note: 40 has a fibergalss top section)

2310mm wheelbase of a 70 shorty
2285mm wheelbase of a 40 shorty

4.11 gearing of both JDM 40 and 70

165 hp HD-T
215 hp 1FZ (available in 90+ 70 series)
140 hp 2F

same full box frame for both series
same leaf suspension for both series.

all in all, both models share the same characteristics and yet teh 70 series can be had with 215 hp stock.

so my take on this comparision is that a HDT (or 1HZ+turbo=Intercooler) is a fine combination in a 40 series... hold on, i KNOW that this set up works very well in a 40 series.

please debate.

 

[bagh33ra]

So, if I am reading this correctly, 1HZ, 1HD-T, and 1HD-FT are all possibilities for sticking with Toyota Diesels in something the size of a 40/70. So then we are left with the question of best matrix of cost/ease of install/power (gain over existing engine)/fuel efficiency (least comprimise, most bang for buck sort of deal).


All of this is, of course, purely theoretical from where I am sitting. Good info for the long term I suppose, but at this point mostly academic.

A 1HD-FT in a 40 would be close to extreme silliness.
A lot of fun, but can you really use that much power in a part time 4wd of that weight?

Well, certainly not the most extreme thing someone's dropped into a 40. As far as can it be used? I honestly don't know; but you know how we Americans are, we like the sound of "more power" even if it is silly.

I mean, for the sake of practicality, the 1HZ might be the best way to go. Of course *most* practical is not doing an engine swap.

FWIW, it's things like climbing Tehachapi pass or going up into the Sierras that has me thinking of such things. That and long expedition efficiency where highway runs are inevitable. As much as I'd rather not do it, the '42 does see some highway duty. Off road, well more power is MOAR POWA!!!

Please, debate away the technicals for my edification.

 

[crushers]

okay, i have posted this before but will again for this thread.
"B" series engines, tough reliable, fuel efficient but parts are getting harder and harder to fid each year that passes, good for 500K - 700K depending on driver and maintainence, cheaper for engine swap unless needing a rebuild
"H" series engines, no sleeves, can be a thrifty as the "B" series and usually good for 300K to 500K depending on the owner and maintenece but once again a dated engine that parts are getting harder and harder to find. cheaper for engine swap unless needing a rebuild.
1PZ, quiet, more powerful than the B series, same or better fuel milage, cheaper than the HZ or HDT, good for 500K, parts availabe for at least 10-20 years yet (a lot of parts interchange with the HZ)
hz, quiet, more powerful than the B or H series, rated the same power as the 12HT although much slower, parts availabe for at least 20 years, 500K engine
hdt, quiet, very powerful, a bit more thirsty than the PZ or the HZ, sensitve throttle in manual configuration, parts for at least 20 years. 500K engine.

of course my favorite is the HZTI, driving this in a 40 is just fun. able to lug down to 400 rpm, able to rev to 4700 rpm, 28+ mpg at 55 mph, ability to tow what ever you want, crawl ability remains but drivability is improved, depending on the driver and his right foot this configuration can last an expected 500K... the more you redline it the faster the engine will die.
next favorite is the PZTI with propane assist with a max boost of 16 psi and the R141. this moves a 4000 lb vehicle with 4.11s and 35s from 0-100 in under 12 seconds but still able to lug down to 400 rpm and is completely drivable.

a NA diesel sucks at elevation and really should be turbo'd if you want it to perform satisfactory in an elevated pass.

 

[Dougal]

lets debate this a bit (just for fun):
1790kg weight of a 70 shorty
1750kg weight of a 40 shorty

1885mm height of a 70 shorty
1905mm height of a 40 shorty (note: 40 has a fibergalss top section)

2310mm wheelbase of a 70 shorty
2285mm wheelbase of a 40 shorty

4.11 gearing of both JDM 40 and 70

165 hp HD-T
215 hp 1FZ (available in 90+ 70 series)
140 hp 2F

same full box frame for both series
same leaf suspension for both series.

all in all, both models share the same characteristics and yet teh 70 series can be had with 215 hp stock.

so my take on this comparision is that a HDT (or 1HZ+turbo=Intercooler) is a fine combination in a 40 series... hold on, i KNOW that this set up works very well in a 40 series.

please debate.

Looks like we can't get a shorty 70. The only versions sold in NZ have the wheelbase around 3m for the troopy and almost 3.2m for the cab chassis.
Troopy is 2300kg, cab chassis is a little over 2t.
Toyota New Zealand - Dimensions
Toyota New Zealand - Dimensions

 

[crushers]

no wonder the troopies are common down there...lucky buggers.
although i have seen used mid 73/74 series for sale on the traders in NZ, they must have been used JDM imports...

 

[tmarx]

Here are some real time comparative figures, all at sea level, in March 2007 at a club dyno day in Cape Town. Unfortunately no 1HD-T's around....

Since then I had my injectors done and these are my latest figures, as on 16/10/2007.

Dyno Figures:
119.4 KW @ 3934 Rpm
370 Nm @ 2268 Rpm ( 330 @1500 Rpm - 300 @ 3800 Rpm)

Compression test accross all 6 cylindersBar)
33 , 31 , 30 , 31 , 31 , 31.

The truck had 225K kms on it with the last 30K being turboed

It would be difficult to compare a 1HZT and 1HD-T as the R151 box vs the H151/0 box makes a big difference, IMHO. In terms of RPM, she happily revs to 4500 but I seldom need to do that. Usually I can just stay in the torque band by changing up to 2nd and cross dunes that the 4.5's can only do in 1st gear

 

[stu050]

A 1HD-FT in a 40 would be close to extreme silliness.
A lot of fun, but can you really use that much power in a part time 4wd of that weight?

I would have thought that it would be just about the same as dropping in a 327/350 chev?


my .02

.

 

[Tapage]

Been driven a FZJ-71 series / HJ-61 / HZJ-70 / HDJ-80 / HJ-60 ( and Tencha ) / HZJ-80 I would definately still stick with turbo engines ..

There is no point of comparision between, a NA with a Turbo engine .. ( just IMOP I not gonna buy/own a NA diesel engine ever .. ) no matter how much important will be the economy and reliability.

My 1HD-T it's real thirstly ... close to 18 - 20 km/g city and I'm hapy with that ..

Other personal note, are the DI engines have nothing to do with IDI engines .. are the DI engines by far much more fast that the IDI ..

Compared 71 series that come with the H151 tranny with a HDJ-80 with H151 tranny the 1FZ-FE ( all stock comparisions ) will fly over the diesel ..

I thought also it's much more cheaper improove the performance in a DI factory turbo engine .. love the low end torque.

 

[Tapage]

back to the thread there is a friend here that make a 70 body with a short 80 frame, 80 suspension and sure the 1HD-T engine ..

What rig Sr. ...

But all in all, all build are related to the kind of target that you speck from that Cruiser .. tires, gearing etc ..

 

[Dougal]

I would have thought that it would be just about the same as dropping in a 327/350 chev?


my .02

.

Yep.

 

[crushers]

(tangent) side notes on V8s:
in this case installing a turbo diesel increases the resale value where as (at least in this country) a gasser V8 swap depreciates the truck...

the drivability of the truck is different between a V8 and a trubo diesel.
most gasser V8s do not like verticle or sidehills, do not like to lug down to 400 rpm. (unless fuel injected)
most V8 swaps are all about hp and little about torque (espec since the old 2F produced the same hp as a stock 350 but more torque)
the fuel milage of a gasser V8 is about the same as the old Toyota six.

i must admit the sound of a healthy V8 through a free flowing exhaust system makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end and aplaud.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

To throw another aspect into the debate, I've been told that IDI engines are better for running biofuels due to the fact that the precups mix the incoming fuel better. Do any of you guys run bio, and can you refute or attest to this??

 

[rtarh2o]

I am just reading this post researching a possible 1HD-T conversion in my 97 FZJ80. I am a bit dissapointed to find out the 1-HD-T is direct injection due to the fact that the IDI's are better for biofuel and WVO which I am currently running in my 6.2. The IDI's are better for these fuels because the fuel isn't directly sprayed into the cylinders thus reducing the possibility of coking. However if the fuel is heated via a 2 tank system it is thought to be ok to run DI engines on WVO, coking occurs because the fuel is not properly atomized when too thick and does not completely burn and leaves residue on the cylinder walls. When the fuel is heated it is thin enough to spray correctly and burn completely. I am currently blending in my 6.2 diesel to reduce the viscosity and I have a heated fuel system, if I do all of this with the 1 HD-T hopefully it will be ok.
What type of IP does the 1 HD-T have?
Rusty

 

[83bj60]

Rotary... I know, it's not the best candidate for WVO. I've put my own WVO plans on the backburner, but you can probably blend some cleaned WVO in with the diesel without risking damage, at least in summer.

For your use you should look at the noin turbo 1HZ instead, but you'll still be dealing with a rotary IP.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Rotary... I know, it's not the best candidate for WVO. I've put my own WVO plans on the backburner, but you can probably blend some cleaned WVO in with the diesel without risking damage, at least in summer.

For your use you should look at the noin turbo 1HZ instead, but you'll still be dealing with a rotary IP.

I'm pretty sure that the 1hdt intake manifold / turbo will bolt right up to the 1hz, so you can have the best of both worlds, a turbo and IDI

 

[Tapage]

I'm pretty sure that the 1hdt intake manifold / turbo will bolt right up to the 1hz, so you can have the best of both worlds, a turbo and IDI

yes i fyou source all part from a 1HD-T are right bolt on to the 1HZ engine ..

 

[rtarh2o]

I am not sure I understand, the intake off of a 1hd-t will bolt on to a 1hz? Are the heads interchangeable? In other words could I take the 1hd-t engine and bolt on a 1 hz head so I could have an IDI engine?
Rusty

 

[Tapage]

the cross over pipe share the same bolt pathern at the intake rail .. not sure if the bolts and cooling gallerys are the same .. to swap heads.

 

[Jim_Hbar]

Rusty:

The basic block, crank, and ancillary bits are the same between the 1HZ and the 1HD - pistons, and head are different due to injection configuration, and the 1HD has larger wrist-pins, making the conrod assembly different also... 1HD block has the oil drain port for the turbo - 1HZ does not. If the manifolds are off of the engines, you really have to know your stuff to spot the differance, and by then it's easier just to read the stamping on the block.

HTHs

Jim

 

[rtarh2o]

So, are the heads interchangeable? I found a 1HD-T but I want an IDI engine run single tank WVO blend.
Rusty