1HD-T / LS1 or ??? (1 Viewer)

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Presuming you're doing IDI for the extended rev range? Aside from the "because I can and I want to" angle that gets us all into trouble.

Haha, yes actually, but now it looks like it won't happen :-( My brother is all bummed out about the money he's spent on the race car that he is thinking of parting it out or selling it! So there goes the diesel idea - shame, I had sponsors lined up and everything.

Yesterday I was talking to Darren at "Autpocraft" in melbourne. He works on Landcruisers a lot. He said that 1HZ cranks may be cast...... Suggested the surface quality suggested a difference and he has seen broken cranks (he also said that the new V8 diesel is breaking of 1 and 2 cyls at the rank when injectors go bad and uneven torque between cylinders. He's got probably 5 cruisers on the go at any one time, so see's a lot.

So... I had been of the opinion the cranks were the same quality/simply the same, however perhaps they are not?

If you can find a 1HDT, buy that instead would be my advice - they are a performance engine waiting for someone to bolt a good turbo to and tune.
 
Aren't the hz and hdt cranks the same?

If you can find a hdt for a decent price then that's definitely better than a hz I reckon, but they're bloody expensive and hard to find compared to HZs
 
I wouldn't think so. But don't know for sure. The HZ just break too easily IMO. Once boosted the crank and con rods/con rod bearings take alot of abuse. Yet the HDT crank isn't the weakest link even under enormous boost. As mentioned by crushers, the HDT factory bearings had issues. Basically they where the wrong size. All you have to do is measure each 1 on your crank, measure the shells and work it out. To make sure it's spot on, double check it with some plastigauge. I've just done this on my truck. But trying to compare the HZ to HDT because of bearing issues is laughable. 1 is boosted and 1 is not - big difference.
 
I've heard a lot about the bearing issues but they don't seem to be a big deal as long they're replaced before they do any damage. I heard a while ago that it was something about the difference in oils used between here and Japan, although that sounds a bit far fetched. I still can't see how the hz is more unreliable when turbo'd when it's built for it. The cranks apparently have the same part number
 
I've heard a lot about the bearing issues but they don't seem to be a big deal as long they're replaced before they do any damage. I heard a while ago that it was something about the difference in oils used between here and Japan, although that sounds a bit far fetched. I still can't see how the hz is more unreliable when turbo'd when it's built for it. The cranks apparently have the same part number

Because it can't be built for it without literally turning it into a 1HD-T...
 
I've heard a lot about the bearing issues but they don't seem to be a big deal as long they're replaced before they do any damage. I heard a while ago that it was something about the difference in oils used between here and Japan, although that sounds a bit far fetched. I still can't see how the hz is more unreliable when turbo'd when it's built for it. The cranks apparently have the same part number

Not sure what you're getting at there. The 1HZ was never built to be turbocharged.
The higher compression ratio alone greatly increases crank loads over the lower compress 1HD-T.

I found a research paper online about solving cavitation in the crank bearings of a 6 cylinder diesel engine. One of the authors was a Toyota engineer.
Coincidence?
 
That just it right there. IT'S NOT BUILT FOR IT. Toyota built the HZ, great engine for its time and N/A. Then they decided to turbo it. Took that engine and turbo'd it. Found all the problems, and fixed them. Some drastic changes had to be made. Namely the compensator and IDI for starters. Thus the HDT was born without any of the issues associated with turboing a HZ. It can be done successfuly with longivity. solong as your running low boost and afr's/egt's are in check. Performance, fuel Eco, longevity and reliability still all hands down go to the DT.

To get the better Eco crushers talks about from a turbo'd HZ. It would need to be running very very lean down low = gutless and slow.
 
To get the better Eco crushers talks about from a turbo'd HZ. You need to be in an alternate universe.

Fixed that for you.
There's no way a turbo 1HZ can beat a 1HD-T for efficiency/economy. It uses more fuel right across the load/speed range.

In stock form, the 1HD-T and the non turbo have similar full-load injection volumes. From that same amount of fuel, the 1HD-T gets ~360Nm, the 1HZ gets ~295Nm.
 
Dougal said:
Not sure what you're getting at there. The 1HZ was never built to be turbocharged.
The higher compression ratio alone greatly increases crank loads over the lower compress 1HD-T.

I found a research paper online about solving cavitation in the crank bearings of a 6 cylinder diesel engine. One of the authors was a Toyota engineer.
Coincidence?

I realise all this, but if you don't have the option of swapping a hz for a hd but you can build a hz to handle a turbo better (upgraded piston, compensator, etc, not lowering compression though, I feel that defeats the purpose, just have a bit lower boost) then you shouldn't be worried that its going to explode as soon as you put some boost into it.

With the bearings, I was only saying what I heard on mud a couple of years ago. If Toyota came up with a reason it was happening then that's good

Edit: it's the same reason lots of people persist with the 3b when the 13bt is so much better-13bts are bloody rare and expensive :(
 
If you priced up a compensator, pistons, crank, turbo kit etc. it will be the same price as a DT anyway. And the idi will still increase egt's. there's no getting around it.
 
TheBigBoy said:
If you priced up a compensator, pistons, crank, turbo kit etc. it will be the same price as a DT anyway. And the idi will still increase egt's. there's no getting around it.

Yeah maybe, but that's assuming you can find one. If toyodiy is to be believed then the cranks are the same.
Higher egts if you try and get the same amount of power out of it, that's fair enough. IDI is inferior, I know that. It's one of the reasons I'm replace my 3b with a 12ht :)
 
I have a BJ42 which I am preparing for offroad challenges/competitions.
Till now it has volvo portal axles and coilsprings. I put on the 3B engine a turbo and intercooler...

But I am planning to install a more powerfull engine.
But I am not sure what would be the best choice:
- 1HD-T
- LS1 V8
- ???

Can someone give me some advice :) !?
Does the 1HD-t fit well in a BJ42? Is a 1HD-T heavier than a 3B engine?

Thanks in advance!

Best regards,
Bas

IMO looking at the amount of water/mud involved I would go with a non EFI turbo diesel and beefed up auto transmission. If you can get 1HDT easily enough go with that, one of Graemes turbos and some mods should see you up around 200hp at the wheels and heaps of torque for the soft sand, boggy mud and deep holes. I'd also be extending the wheel base too.

A few mates have LS1's and 6.0L's in various types of road/race cars and they are definitely not without their problems (mainly electrical) which can be a real PITA especially with the types of comps your looking at.

A 1HDT can spin to plenty of rpm, or shift to a higher gear for more wheel speed. I think crushers mentioned stock governor is around 4200rpm ? I'd have no problem holding it there during competition.

A mates 1HZ turbo with 1HDFT pump spings to 6000rpm.......

Heres some boosted cruiser porn for you, this a 1HZ though.

 
since BigBoy and Dougal can't come up with any proof of the HZ turbo'd head issues, how about people posting up their HZ head cracking issues?
post up mods to the engine, towing or not, racing or not, DD, boost, fuel settings, km on the engine.
I get it BB, you love your HDT and i understand the Dougal dislikes any IDI engine but that isn't proof that there is an issue.
GB, i am interested in your results, good or bad.

i would still go with the LS1 for the OP competition application

Hi Crushers

I normaly agree with you but this time I have to disagree:doh:

I have ran my BJ40 with 1HDT(the one that Tapage posted the pic of) in all major competitions in Panama and most off my competitors where running big V8's.......guess wich 1HDT driver won them all (Modesty ????? we Europeans don't do that:grinpimp:)

Also when I was still living in Belgium I was dealing in secondhand Cruisers and Patrols and all of the HZJ 73's that I have had ran hot as soon as you lifted them and put 35" under them.Even up to the fact that whenever on the highway with a car hauler behind them I had to drop to below the speed limit.

With the HDJ80 this was never a problem.

The only way for us back then to drop the temp on the highway was to make a 1cm spacer that I mounted on the hood hinges so hot air could escape trough the back of the hood.

Now all of this said,if I was building a DD 40 and could choose between a 1hz and a 1HDT I would propably do the 1HZ just because it will live forever without spending a fortune on the injectors every 100K like the 1HDT:eek:

Just my 2Cents:cheers:
 
Hi Crushers

I normaly agree with you but this time I have to disagree:doh:

I have ran my BJ40 with 1HDT(the one that Tapage posted the pic of) in all major competitions in Panama and most off my competitors where running big V8's.......guess wich 1HDT driver won them all (Modesty ????? we Europeans don't do that:grinpimp:)

Also when I was still living in Belgium I was dealing in secondhand Cruisers and Patrols and all of the HZJ 73's that I have had ran hot as soon as you lifted them and put 35" under them.Even up to the fact that whenever on the highway with a car hauler behind them I had to drop to below the speed limit.

With the HDJ80 this was never a problem.

The only way for us back then to drop the temp on the highway was to make a 1cm spacer that I mounted on the hood hinges so hot air could escape trough the back of the hood.

Now all of this said,if I was building a DD 40 and could choose between a 1hz and a 1HDT I would propably do the 1HZ just because it will live forever without spending a fortune on the injectors every 100K like the 1HDT:eek:

Just my 2Cents:cheers:

Interesting, what do you think it is about the 1HDT that gave you an advantage over the V8's?

I think you should post a pic up of this rig.
 
@ hulsty
Do you know what kind of electrical problems those LS engines have?
What is your opinion on the weight difference between a LS and a 1hdt engine?
Extending the wheelbase? You mean I should have a BJ43...
Nice movie!


@ joekatana

What was the overall reason that the 1hdt was better than the V8 engines?
Did you have tuned your 1hdt engine? Did you have a intercooler?



Thanks!
 
I think you should post a pic up of this rig.

I can help with the pic part and must say was not only just a good Cruiser with the most awesome TD engine Toyota ever made .. this guy have some sort of iron balls .. when driving ..

the rig ..

main.php
 
There's alot more than just engine choice when competing in comps. Geometry, wheel base, weight and weight distribution, tyres, driver. You can't claim it was the engine - unless they where all old crappy V8's that got wet and stopped. And not a LS.
 
There's alot more than just engine choice when competing in comps. Geometry, wheel base, weight and weight distribution, tyres, driver. You can't claim it was the engine - unless they where all old crappy V8's that got wet and stopped. And not a LS.

Im sure he get's that, though I think his point may be that the 1HDT can compete with the LS in off road comps with proof of such, and not that it was purely a superior engine to the LS.

Regardless, I think it would need significant mods and to be driven very hard to compete.
 

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