1985 Fj60 Jumping time?

[Ojaicruiser]

Hey guys! New to the thread but have followed it for awhile with other trouble shooting issues in the past.
My cruiser is not wanting to be timed! Mechanic is telling me the time is jumping and can't seem to correct it. I brought it in because of a back fire on deceleration and so it can pass smog and we have narrowed it down to timing. vacuum lines are all replaced and in correct order. He is telling me the timing gears could have jumped and now not lining up correctly. Is this something that happens? To my understanding they are metal gears and to jump a tooth I would think would had to have been a pretty hard knock that would make it jump? He claims the back fire is what caused it to jump time? He wants to Line up the dots but that's a pretty big job to do that and I'd like to rule out anything else before cracking the timing cover open and the whole front off!
Thanks in advance guys!

 

[vipergrhd]

Find another mechanic, seriously.
Unless the gears are sheared off it`s almost impossible to jump or someone installed it wrong. Do a compression test and leak down to see if you have a valve stuck open or burnt.

 

[Cruiser Corps]

There's not a way for it to jump a tooth. If it's out of time on the timing gears, it was set up that way. If the gears are stripped, it wouldn't start.

- Josh

 

[Cruiser Corps]

If the timing is truly changing while running, it's got to be in the dizzy somewhere. Mechanical issues with the FJ60 dizzy are not common by a long shot, though. It's a very well designed unit from the factory.
- Josh

 

[White Stripe]

Take a look at the tone ring in the distributor and make sure it is solidly mounted on the shaft and hasn't come loose. Check the weights in the distributor and see if something funny is going on.

 

[Ojaicruiser]

Thanks for all your reply's I knew it didn't sound right. I'll pick it up tomorrow and find another mechanic. I knew He didn't know what he was talking about when at first he told me the chain was jumping then I told him their is no chain on those trucks it's a geared timing. That's when I knew he was full of it. I appreciate all the opinions. Ill let you all know what the real issue is when I get this backfire/timing issue figured out.

 

[Ojaicruiser]

Would an exhaust leak on the manifold cause this to backfire and not allow proper timing? I found a few bolts broken off and a cable holding it on in replacement.

 

[roscoFJ73]

When my old 3F got tired, I couldn't adjust the valves properly. A mechanic told me the cam was worn. I also had a car once that you couldn't set the points because the bushing inside the distributor was worn and allowing the shaft to meander about.

 

[gregnash]

Ouch! Would it cause it to go out of phase/timing like that I do not think it would but you would have to rely on the expert advice of someone like @FJ40Jim.
I would check the head to make sure there are no cracks, the manifold and lower intake below the carb and then chase all the holes. The thing is that with that large of a vacuum leak who knows what issues it was causing.

Oh and maybe look up Mark of Mark's Offroad to see if he can offer some help.

 

[Ojaicruiser]

The story behind this cruiser is, I had bought it with 130,000 on it in 2003 drove it for two years then in 2005 it didn't pass smog and started back firing
on deacceleration. I had parked on my property and it sat ever since. I started working on it October of 2016. Did all new fluids and serviced it new fuel lines and actually had bought a new tank for it years back that I finally installed as well. Did Spark plugs, carb etc. Took it to a mechanic to get the timing done and to put on new vacuum lines and emission modularator. He bought a new distributor cap and New rotor for the distributor. But I feel like he didnt know what the real issue was on the back fire. I took back home after he told it was the timing gears. Then when I went to pick it up he told me oh ya it's the exhaust manifold And taken it off! But he showed me there was a cable holding part of it on that's been there for quite some time from some one previously breaking a bolt off in the side of the block closest to the firewall. Then another two one on where the exhaust meets manifold and one where the egr cooler hooks up to on manifold.

 

[Ojaicruiser]

I still doubted him and had taken it home on a tow truck. But now left with what what he did, should I re use this manifold and fix the ones on it or buy a new one and just figure out how to tap that bolt out.

 

[gregnash]

Believe they are studs which should still be available, talk to @beno. Talk to some of the shops in SoCal that work on cruisers and see who they recommend for the manifold work.

 

[Output Shaft]

What's going on with the brake booster vacuum fitting? Is that thing entire thing plugged? Do you have power brakes? Cant tell by the picture.

There's no way a a cable tie can hold the manifold securely enough to ensure a leak free mating to the head.

 

[Ojaicruiser]

The vacuum line Looks melted off yet to be replaced. The hose behind it is just disconnected from it though. I don't have power brakes that I'm aware of. Unless you are referring to hydraulics then yes. As far as the manifold do you think that cable wasn't even holding it on right causing this to leak and back fire or even the egr cooler with a broken stud on the manifold? I need to figure out how to get that bolt out of the head as well. I appreciate the responses! I'll work on taking these studs out and replacing them.

 

[Ojaicruiser]

Two broken studs on the manifold and a broken off bolt on the head.

 

[Output Shaft]

If that fitting that I circled above in green has a big open port, that's a huge vacuum leak. Plug up that thing if you don't have a functioning brake booster.

 

[FJ40Jim]

Clearly the manifolds were not sealed against the head. Fix that first!

The broken off manifold studs are no big deal, happens all the time. Take manifolds to competent machine shop to be cleaned, burn out & replace studs, mill straight & spotface.

The broken off bolt in the head is because the manifolds were leaking and the bolt(s) were overtorked in an attempt to get them to seal. The broken off bolt is probably not terribly stuck. Soak w/ penetrant, tap backwards w/ sharp punch, slot end w/ cutoff wheel & turn w/ impact screwdriver, etc.

 

[Ojaicruiser]

Thanks for the replies! I'll take the manifold over to a shop to get it done and resurfaced. Now as far as it being overtorqued in attempt to seal it would that be because the manifold could be warped and they tried to just crank not down? Or just a incompetent mechanic not seating it right?

 

[gregnash]

Thanks for the replies! I'll take the manifold over to a shop to get it done and resurfaced. Now as far as it being overtorqued in attempt to seal it would that be because the manifold could be warped and they tried to just crank not down? Or just a incompetent mechanic not seating it right?

Probably due to the manifold being warped slightly. When Jim says take it to a competent shop he means it. There is a very certain way that these manifolds need to be machined to ensure a flat mounting surface due to the fact that the "ears" move/rotate. I was told my manifold shop was competent (by the shop that did my head) yet the did not end up remedying my issue. I believe the @FJ40Jim did a write-up on how the manifold should be done. One of these days I am going to have to get mine redone.

 

[FJ40Jim]

There is folklore occasionally promulgated on this forum (sadly) that to get the manifolds to seal, even when the ears are different thicknesses, it's only a matter of torking down the bolts hard enough.
The bolt breaks off in the head or sometimes pulls the threads outta the head before the manifold magically gets sealed, because physics.