1984 Toyota Camry / Vista with 1.8l turbo diesel 1C (1 Viewer)

[Mike NXP]

Had an interesting turn of events after talking with another local auto electronics guy, who seemed to be a toyota specific dude...

It took him about 5 minutes of reviewing the wiring diagram before he successfully troubleshooted the current problem

• He focused in on the L connector on the alternator, since that circuit seems to relate to all of the dash lights, as seen in the wiring diagrams above
• The L is supposed to be hot, and when active it grounds out and completes the circuit, as seen in the charge light relay above ( I may have that backwards but you get the point )
• When power passes through the charge light coil relay thingy, its supposed to close that circuit and then send power to everything else down the line
  
  
• I removed the wire harness from alternator, and supplied a ground wire directly to the L port on vehicle side of harness
• All of the dash lights work again

The conclusion.....the alternator rebuild failed for one reason or another and it needs to come back out...

Here's to doing this one more time and hopefully never again

**** Now, the big question. Am I really going to lift my engine again so I can remove the alternator bolt, or am I going to drill a big ass hole in my wheel well to gain access. I wonder if that's a structural issue...it doesn't seem like a good idea

 

[AirheadNut]

Great to hear there might be light at the end of the tunnel! You're welcome to use my engine hoist if that makes any difference, though it would probably be difficult on gravel.

 

[Mike NXP]

Great to hear there might be light at the end of the tunnel! You're welcome to use my engine hoist if that makes any difference, though it would probably be difficult on gravel.

What a nice person, appreciate your offer.

It should be easier the second go around so I feel like I can bang it out....I just hate crawling around under the car which is necessary to get to a few of the oil line bolts

I could get a little harbor freight engine bay lift thingy ...meh block of wood and a bottle jack under the oil pan will most likely be what happens lol

 

[AndyMax]

Had an interesting turn of events after talking with another local auto electronics guy, who seemed to be a toyota specific dude...

It took him about 5 minutes of reviewing the wiring diagram before he successfully troubleshooted the current problem

• He focused in on the L connector on the alternator, since that circuit seems to relate to all of the dash lights, as seen in the wiring diagrams above
• The L is supposed to be hot, and when active it grounds out and completes the circuit, as seen in the charge light relay above ( I may have that backwards but you get the point )
• When power passes through the charge light coil relay thingy, its supposed to close that circuit and then send power to everything else down the line
  
  
• I removed the wire harness from alternator, and supplied a ground wire directly to the L port on vehicle side of harness
• All of the dash lights work again

The conclusion.....the alternator rebuild failed for one reason or another and it needs to come back out...

Here's to doing this one more time and hopefully never again

**** Now, the big question. Am I really going to lift my engine again so I can remove the alternator bolt, or am I going to drill a big ass hole in my wheel well to gain access. I wonder if that's a structural issue...it doesn't seem like a good idea

Hey man, other Toyota diesel Camry guy here. I went through a similar process recently with my Benz and the agitator/exciter wire from the dash. Got a whole other alternator in, and still wouldn't work and after days of tracing and testing, discovered that I buggered one of my splices on the dash wire.
I redid the connection and the alternator worked. This has happened to me several times before. I always assume that I screwed up my wiring before I assume a component is faulty. So if you did make any spices just really run through them all and check connections too.
If alternator is not providing ground, make sure that it's installed correctly on the bracket. Nice and tight. I believe it grounds through the alternator case and into the engine.

And in terms of just lifting the engine, I would also advise the floor jack with a 2 x 4 over the engine hoist if you don't already have one. Just be sure not to the dent the pan as you know.

 

[Mike NXP]

Got er' back out. Definitely easier the second go around. Procedure tips listed below for any other unfortunate soul out there who may have to do this

** Looks like the coolant crossover tube that I had to remove is leaking after a few test runs. I'll need to remove it, clean it, and either goop it or cut new gasket. Should probably get it done before alt goes back in

Removing alternator 1984 Toyota Camry 1C

• Vehicle should be lifted with passenger tire removed. I lifted both sides to keep engine more even to help with lift later
• Disconnect battery + and -
• Disconnect pigtail, vac lines, and 2 temp sensor connectors in wire loom at alternator
  
  
• While the alternator is still secure, go down below and look for the 17mm and 12mm oil banjo bolt on the backside of the alternator. Remove bolts
• Loosen main 14mm alt mounting bolt
• Loosen / Remove adjusting bolt on lower side of alternator ( 12mm)
• Remove / hang belt. I managed to keep belt looped around crank pulley so I didn't have to remove the PS belt too
  
  
• Drain coolant and/or removing temp sensors
  - You can do this now or later but the alternator does not fit out from the top with these sensors in place. It may come out from down below but didn't seem possible
  - Setup a cardboard slide so the coolant doesn't dump onto alt. I pulled the sensors and plugged the holes with little rubber plugs plugs otherwise it drips for a while
  
  
• Motor Mounts - I found 3
  - One mount is on the passenger side near the washer fluid tank.
  - One mount is down below , up front and is visible with the undercover removed
  - Another is on the backside of the motor near exhaust and is harder to reach. I didn't touch this one
  
  
• Support engine
  - This was kind of a bitch and something hooked to the engine hooks from above may have been better. Using a block of wood to the drain pan is effective, but the pan is angled and it lifts the motor kind of sideways. This put a lot of strain on the PS mount near the washer tank and I was worried the mount was going to blow out
  
  
• With engine supported from down below, remove large bolt from passenger side top mount
• Then go down below and remove the two bolts holding the lower mount in place. Take note of position in the slots
  
  
• With the hardware fully removed from these mounts, you can jack up the motor about 3-4"
• The last inch or so is kind of rough because the top mount sort of pops out of its socket but its necessary to get enough clearance to pull the main alternator bolt out. If supported evenly from above this may not be as much of an issue. Keep an eye on this as you're lifting
  
  
• Remove main alt bolt. Remove alternator. Pray the next guy fixes it better and this is actually the problem
  
  
• Slowly let motor down so it doesn't stay lifted and strained during alt rebuild. Settle it down towards normal level, throw some kind of pin / driver through the bolt holes to support motor weight

----
Just for archival purposes, this image was shared from the new rebuilder I found who seems to know a lot about Toyotas. I googled his shop and there's 4 Terecell 4WD sitting out front so that's exciting

Here is his explanation on how a short / failure to ground internally on this L circuit could cause this problem. Without a path to ground the charge light relay won't energize and that will cause all of the dash lights in that circuit to s*** out along with no charge symptoms

 

[Mike NXP]

Hey man, other Toyota diesel Camry guy here. I went through a similar process recently with my Benz and the agitator/exciter wire from the dash. Got a whole other alternator in, and still wouldn't work and after days of tracing and testing, discovered that I buggered one of my splices on the dash wire.
I redid the connection and the alternator worked. This has happened to me several times before. I always assume that I screwed up my wiring before I assume a component is faulty. So if you did make any spices just really run through them all and check connections too.
If alternator is not providing ground, make sure that it's installed correctly on the bracket. Nice and tight. I believe it grounds through the alternator case and into the engine.

And in terms of just lifting the engine, I would also advise the floor jack with a 2 x 4 over the engine hoist if you don't already have one. Just be sure not to the dent the pan as you know.

Hey there, right on thanks for the tips...That's just it, nothing changed before this issue in regards to connections or anything electrical. I've had AUX spotlights hooked up but those have been in for months, and have since been disconnected just to rule out any issues.

Otherwise I was damn sure to check all connections, grounds, etc. Replaced some old ground wires even but no difference. I also ran a ground cable and clamped directly to the alternator bolt just to make sure it was grounded, no difference.


I really don't know, but based on the recent testing and some electrical troubleshooting from another local guy, it seems like this alternator is shot and wasn't rebuilt right. Something to do with the L circuit, some setup to provide + and some provide -, apparently mine needs to ground to complete the circuit, the originally rebuilder may have done it backwards. ..

I tell you what, the anxiety levels will be elevated until this thing gets rebuilt and reinstalled. I'm already mentally preparing for nothing to be fixed again, setting the bar low

 

[Mike NXP]

Last time I peeked into where the metal coolant tube met the engine block, it had like this funky gasket that had what looked like a rubber seal involved as well.

Partsouq says NLA but Amayama claims they can source it. Going to order it and see what happens

Original part # - 16341-64010
Amayama says replacement part # that will work - 16341-64201
>> Going to stick with the original part number and see if they ship

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Last time I peeked into where the metal coolant tube met the engine block, it had like this funky gasket that had what looked like a rubber seal involved as well.

Partsouq says NLA but Amayama claims they can source it. Going to order it and see what happens

Original part # - 16341-64010
Amayama says replacement part # that will work - 16341-64201
>> Going to stick with the original part number and see if they ship
View attachment 3890509

View attachment 3890511

A 'Not Available' from Partsouq means out of stock, but not necessarily NLA.

Amayama show a supersession to 16341-64021, you won't get 16341-64010. It also shows stock in UAE, so you could order 16341-64021 from Partsouq too.

IMO (sitting in SE Asia) Amayama Japan are by far the best seller for communication, availability and price. If something is cheaper in the UAE however, I always go with Partsouq as I have found Amayama's stock levels in the UAE are very unreliable, I've had orders sit doing nothing for 3 weeks only to be suddenly cancelled when I inquire. Pretty useless. Their shipping is also twice what Partsouq charge (which is already not cheap), but that may be specific to my out-of-the-way lcoation.

 

[Mike NXP]

A 'Not Available' from Partsouq means out of stock, but not necessarily NLA.

Amayama show a supersession to 16341-64021, you won't get 16341-64010. It also shows stock in UAE, so you could order 16341-64021 from Partsouq too.

Good point, thanks. Suppose I might as well just order the superceded part# from Partsouq. I was just worried the new number may not be right for some reason but it should be good to go.

From my reference
>>https://partsouq.com/en/search/all?q=16341-64021

Ah s***, this makes me have some doubts that this newer part # will fit the old 1C motor

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Good point, thanks. Suppose I might as well just order the superceded part# from Partsouq. I was just worried the new number may not be right for some reason but it should be good to go.

From my reference
>>https://partsouq.com/en/search/all?q=16341-64021

Ah s***, this makes me have some doubts that this newer part # will fit the old 1C motor
View attachment 3890519

The only time I've had issues with superseded parts is where the new part requires another updated part to replace the original, but I think you'll be fine. You can visually check what you have with what is shown on the Partsouq website, or check whether parts either side of the gasket are shared between applications where 64010 and 64021 are separately used to be sure.

 

[Mike NXP]

The only time I've had issues with superseded parts is where the new part requires another updated part to replace the original, but I think you'll be fine. You can visually check what you have with what is shown on the Partsouq website, or check whether parts either side of the gasket are shared between applications where 64010 and 64021 are separately used to be sure.

Good stuff...Unfortunately I don't have the pipe removed yet so I'm getting a little ahead of my self

I ended up just ordering the newer part number from partsouq....then doubted myself and also ordered the original from Amayama, will see what happens as they show availability.


My vehicle - The part is used in a different place. The bolt pattern is the same but it doesn't show the little tab in top right

Newer part number diagram for 3c

 

[Mike NXP]

Alternator is dropped off at new rebuilder...He started tearing it down while I was there and mentioned some initial observations:
- The paint is too thick on one of the components ( can't remember which part, regulator cover maybe?) anyway he put like some meter on a good piece of metal and showed me a reaction... Then he put the meter on to my part and nothing happened
- Also, he mentioned a weird stack of washer then nut on top of the B+ post. This nut needs to tighten all the way down to make contact internally. The washer below the nut may not have been letting this happen
- Found a wire that was frayed internally. Said it's probably OK but will replace

Standing by for more

 

[Mike NXP]

Shoot, looks like Amayama can't get the original part number after all.... Fingers crossed the new part number will work with the old 1c motor but I've had bad luck a few times already with superceded part numbers, that work for the 2C motor but don't fit the 1C

 

[AndyMax]

Alternator is dropped off at new rebuilder...He started tearing it down while I was there and mentioned some initial observations:
- The paint is too thick on one of the components ( can't remember which part, regulator cover maybe?) anyway he put like some meter on a good piece of metal and showed me a reaction... Then he put the meter on to my part and nothing happened
- Also, he mentioned a weird stack of washer then nut on top of the B+ post. This nut needs to tighten all the way down to make contact internally. The washer below the nut may not have been letting this happen
- Found a wire that was frayed internally. Said it's probably OK but will replace

Shoot, looks like Amayama can't get the original part number after all.... Fingers crossed the new part number will work with the old 1c motor but I've had bad luck a few times already with superceded part numbers, that work for the 2C motor but don't fit the 1C

View attachment 3891891

Shoot, looks like Amayama can't get the original part number after all.... Fingers crossed the new part number will work with the old 1c motor but I've had bad luck a few times already with superceded part numbers, that work for the 2C motor but don't fit the 1C

View attachment 3891891

Are you looking for the thermostat gasket?
Worse case scenario you can use high temp coolant system approved gasket maker. It's a reddish orange.

Also was the part that the builder mentioned needing changed the voltage regulator? I haven't looked deep enough to know whether the alternator is internally or externally regulated, but that would've been a good thing to replace.
If it's externally regulated, pretty easy to order the proper regulator and put it in

I'm curious if you or the previous owner has ever had issues with head gasket or overheating? To my understanding, that's the Achilles heel of this engine and a lot of people give up on them once head is cracked.

I'm hoping I can upgrade the radiator and fans so that never happens

 

[Mike NXP]

Are you looking for the thermostat gasket?
Worse case scenario you can use high temp coolant system approved gasket maker. It's a reddish orange.

Also was the part that the builder mentioned needing changed the voltage regulator? I haven't looked deep enough to know whether the alternator is internally or externally regulated, but that would've been a good thing to replace.
If it's externally regulated, pretty easy to order the proper regulator and put it in

I'm curious if you or the previous owner has ever had issues with head gasket or overheating? To my understanding, that's the Achilles heel of this engine and a lot of people give up on them once head is cracked.

I'm hoping I can upgrade the radiator and fans so that never happens

Hey

- Nah the gasket is the water inlet gasket, located at the backside of motor, above the alternator. The thermostat I ordered ( but never installed ) came with a gasket ring...Like you said worst case I'll have to use some goop DIY gasket stuff

- So the rebuilder replaced the regulator with an aftermarket. The diodes he replaces were a part of the rectifier, I think Most of this is a little bit over my head
- This alternator is internally regulated. I watched the new rebuilder pull it out and check it all over, claims the part used is OK

- YES ,there were issue mentioned and I agree the performance issues I've come across on the internet for these 1c and 2c motors all ends with performance issues due to overheating / head cracking......The story behind this car ( in a nutshell ) is that the original owners removed and completely rebuilt the motor due to overheating issues. This was only a few thousand miles ago but 10-15 years ago. The car sat in a garage for many years and then was sold to the guy I bought it from... Drove her home 8+ hours at 60mph+ without any overheating issues so hopefully shes good to go.

- Good call but I wonder what the real reason is for the overheating. Are people neglecting maintenance ( most likely ) or is this some kind of known failure. Honestly, I don't know if I've ever even heard my fan turn on lol I should pay more attention to that

 

[AndyMax]

Hey

- Nah the gasket is the water inlet gasket, located at the backside of motor, above the alternator. The thermostat I ordered ( but never installed ) came with a gasket ring...Like you said worst case I'll have to use some goop DIY gasket stuff

- So the rebuilder replaced the regulator with an aftermarket. The diodes he replaces were a part of the rectifier, I think Most of this is a little bit over my head
- This alternator is internally regulated. I watched the new rebuilder pull it out and check it all over, claims the part used is OK

- YES ,there were issue mentioned and I agree the performance issues I've come across on the internet for these 1c and 2c motors all ends with performance issues due to overheating / head cracking......The story behind this car ( in a nutshell ) is that the original owners removed and completely rebuilt the motor due to overheating issues. This was only a few thousand miles ago but 10-15 years ago. The car sat in a garage for many years and then was sold to the guy I bought it from... Drove her home 8+ hours at 60mph+ without any overheating issues so hopefully shes good to go.

- Good call but I wonder what the real reason is for the overheating. Are people neglecting maintenance ( most likely ) or is this some kind of known failure. Honestly, I don't know if I've ever even heard my fan turn on lol I should pay more attention to that

-gotcha, wasn't sure if water outlet was a weird toyotaism for thermostat housing. I've seen some odd phrasing in the parts diagrams, but I haven't owned many Toyotas outside of my hiace and Camry.

-hopefully the alternator gets rebuilt properly this time. It's always a bummer when you've got to redo a job

-Yes, same story with my Camry that at some point there was a engine out rebuild, which I imagine was because of overheating.

The engine does seem to run hot even with the electric fans turning on. Honestly, I must feel like it might be better to wire the fans to a toggle switch so that it's just always running. I don't see the car getting under temp.
Mine kick in when the coolant reaches a certain temperature and then they cycle off.

I think a lot of the reputation comes from that engine being inside camper vans, which get loaded down by Americans with tons of stuff and then driven up our hilly landscape. Cooling system simply can't keep up.

Of course, the aluminum head and the cast-iron block combination always makes it prone to warping due to thermal cycling of dissimilar metals, but I've also heard that the valve seats crack because the distances between the valves are very thin.

I've already sunk a lot of time in research and money in parts and will be attempting the refresh of the car this spring, so I'm hoping that it does prove to be a reliable commuter and doesn't inherently fail because of its design

 

[Mike NXP]

-gotcha, wasn't sure if water outlet was a weird toyotaism for thermostat housing. I've seen some odd phrasing in the parts diagrams, but I haven't owned many Toyotas outside of my hiace and Camry.

-hopefully the alternator gets rebuilt properly this time. It's always a bummer when you've got to redo a job

-Yes, same story with my Camry that at some point there was a engine out rebuild, which I imagine was because of overheating.

The engine does seem to run hot even with the electric fans turning on. Honestly, I must feel like it might be better to wire the fans to a toggle switch so that it's just always running. I don't see the car getting under temp.
Mine kick in when the coolant reaches a certain temperature and then they cycle off.

I think a lot of the reputation comes from that engine being inside camper vans, which get loaded down by Americans with tons of stuff and then driven up our hilly landscape. Cooling system simply can't keep up.

Of course, the aluminum head and the cast-iron block combination always makes it prone to warping due to thermal cycling of dissimilar metals, but I've also heard that the valve seats crack because the distances between the valves are very thin.

I've already sunk a lot of time in research and money in parts and will be attempting the refresh of the car this spring, so I'm hoping that it does prove to be a reliable commuter and doesn't inherently fail because of its design

Wiring up the fan on a switch isn't a bad idea, keep me posted if you end up doing that....I found it's pretty easy to run wire through the firewall on the passenger side. There's a rubber boot over there that's not to hard to poke through, compared to the one on the driver side which is harder to get at.

I'd be curious to find out the options for monitoring actual coolant temps. I just go by the needle on the dash which isn't always the best thing but has been good so far.

Yeah totally, definitely a good deal of overloaded vehicles out there with these motors that just get beat down....I had the 1C doing about 60-70mph for 6+ hours on my drive home when I first got it and she did good

I think its definitely a worthy engine to keep up with, assuming the vehicle isn't all that rusty and is worth keeping alive... Compared to your other options now a days, if you can dump a few grand and some labor into your old Camry, I believe it will pay off but just may have a bit of misery mixed in

 

[Mike NXP]

Geez Partsouq is impressive, few days after order and this little gasket arrived via Fedex Express
>> As noted above, original part number can't be sourced ( 16341-64010 ) Reference on some docs called for 16341-64021, seen below. Will dive into this in a few days and will report back if this fits the 1C water outlet pipe ( not like anyone else in the world has a 1C lol )

>> Does one add Permatex or some kind of goop sealant to something like this or just install as-is since it's got that little rubber seal built in

Hey @AndyMax does your old Camry have a tachometer ? I think it'd be sorta cool to know what RPM I'm chugging along at but I don't know how someone adds tach to a diesel without any ignition wires to tap in to

 

[AirheadNut]

You should be able to add an aftermarket tach using the W terminal on your alternator (assuming it has one). Usually factory tach outputs are either on the injection pump or in some cases (like the H, 2H and 12H-T engines) using a hall effect sensor on the bellhousing.

 

[Mike NXP]

You should be able to add an aftermarket tach using the W terminal on your alternator (assuming it has one). Usually factory tach outputs are either on the injection pump or in some cases (like the H, 2H and 12H-T engines) using a hall effect sensor on the bellhousing.

Hm ok ok, I'll have to do my homework on that. It's lower on my to-do list but would be cool to have something that works....Alternator only has S - IG - and L ( dash lights and few other things )