1984 Toyota Camry / Vista with 1.8l turbo diesel 1C

[AussieHJCruza]

Are you talking about that 30amp fusible link thing? I wonder if I should just replace it , IDK how common of a part this is, something a local auto store has a replacement for?

- I checked my battery again with everything hooked up and key off
- It's slowly draining and is down to 12.2
- I removed the battery ground cable so It doesn't die overnight. I checked voltage and watched it go up slightly once the vehicle cables were disconnected. It's back up to around 12.38 now
- I hooked up my NOCO jump starter just to see what happens and for some reason the jumper keeps like tripping / won't show a solid connection

So I guess in my head I'm trying to make sense of ;
What could cause several dash lights to not work, a battery to slowly discharge, glow plugs to only operate at half voltage, and all happening with no signs of previous issues.

I'd be very suspect of the fusible link.

 

[Mike NXP]

I'd be very suspect of the fusible link.

I'm suspect of everything around me at this point. Damn crows are laughing at me in the driveway, I bet they snagged a relay when I wasn't looking

So what's the deal , should I just go bring that 30amp thing to the auto parts store and replace it? I could swap it with another one and see if my battery charges better.


I'm just not sure how that relates to all the other issues with the dash lights, glow plugs and what not

 

[Mike NXP]

I also have a similar fuse, but a 60amp off to the side labeled ' AMI ' and I can't make sense of what it is.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

Toyota uses the term 'fusible link' rather indiscriminately. On some models there are fusible link wires for certain high-current applications. These are just wires but they are of a smaller diameter than the rest of the wiring loom and have non-flammable insulation around them. They are deisnged to burn through without catching fire, and can be broken inside the insulation which is obviously difficult to see.

However, what you are pointing at is just a conventional fuse, it has a clear cover so you can inspect it. If it hasn't melted then there is really no chance it can be the source of the issue.

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

I also have a similar fuse, but a 60amp off to the side labeled ' AMI ' and I can't make sense of what it is.

I've never worked out what AM stands for but I think AM1 is a master fuse for all the wiring (accessories, charge circuit) that is not under a separate fuse like the glow plugs.

 

[Mike NXP]

OK thanks Eurasia, good info. I don't think it looks melted or anything like that

I'll keep checking stuff out and will report back if I stumble on anything note worthy

 

[AirheadNut]

Toyota uses the term 'fusible link' rather indiscriminately. On some models there are fusible link wires for certain high-current applications. These are just wires but they are of a smaller diameter than the rest of the wiring loom and have non-flammable insulation around them. They are deisnged to burn through without catching fire, and can be broken inside the insulation which is obviously difficult to see.

That's what I was thinking of when I saw the fusible link on the wiring diagrams, but seeing that it actually uses those pink fuses the problem is going to be elsewhere. Those will just blow, not slowly lose continuity.

 

[Mike NXP]

No new information to report here.....I'm just trying to get all of this timeline and information in one place for my own reference.

Vehicle History Before Problem

• Nothing major to note....Vehicle and electrical were operating normally
  >> A few weeks ago I had someone replace master clutch cylinder. All wiring around cylinder seems OK / no shorts
• Drove home during heavy rain and then parked the car.
  >> This vehicle has standing water in trunk and certainly isn't the most waterproof vehicle however I have hosed down the engine bay in the past without any issues
• The next morning, the battery was dead and wouldn't take a charge... I assumed the battery was shot so I replaced it with a larger capacity Interstate battery

Symptoms

• New battery installed & Key in the ON position.
  Dash lights that don't work : Charge, Temp, Glow, Filter
  Dash lights that do work : Oil, Belt, Door,
• The engine will turn over and start, but takes longer than usual
• With the engine running, the battery is charging very slowly / not much at all as it slowly trickles upward from 12ish Volts

Troubleshooting

• Fully charge new battery. Let sit overnight not connected to vehicle
  >> New battery is holding a steady 12.6
  
  
• Connect battery to vehicle
  >> Voltage dropped down to 12.35
• Check battery after 20 minutes
  >> Voltage is 12.28
  >> This seems to be a consistent voltage drop right?
• Disconnect battery again and test just for the hell of it. Voltage jumped back up to 12.45
  
  
• Basic check for parasitic draw. Key off and remove fuses like radio, dome, lights, fusible link, glow, etc to see if there was any change in voltage drop
  >> Voltage continues to drop, no change detected when removing various fuses
  
  
• Tested glow plugs with key on.
  >>Starts around 2.5V and slowly increases. After 10-15 seconds it gets to around 3.5
  > Glow dash light illuminates sometimes when the engine is turning over
  
  
• Testing B+ at Alternator with engine running
  >> Shows 13+ Volts
  >> There is a little sensor back there, I think it's my engine coolant sensor. The connection point on the sensor seems broken and is able to be moved around however I think the connection still works since my coolant gauge is working
  
  
• Inspect 30amp "fusible link" main fuse
  >> Has steady continuity but rattles
  
  
• Remove, inspect, and clean all other visible connectors and fuses. Remove and inspect side fuse panel with; Glow, AMI, and SubFan
  
  
• Tested millivolt reading across fuses with key off to see if there is any voltage reading
  >> All fuses tested show no voltage draw

Next Steps

• Fully charge battery again
• Unless the car self fixes, I'm out of ideas.
• Removing fuses isn't changing anything in regards to voltage drop
  
  
• I need to figure out how to do the parasitic draw test where I hook up my meter in line with the negative battery cable.

 

[Mike NXP]

According to the Googlez, I was told this is a test for see if power is being drawn from the battery

Red lead in amp slot, dial set to DC amps, and connect in line between negative post and battery cable. Key off, all interior lights off ( disconnected at this point ) door shut
> Meter reads 0V


Shouldn't I be seeing some sort of reading here if my battery is draining? Maybe this is an issue with my meter

 

[Eurasiaoverland]

The lights which stopped working are characteristic of a fault in the charging circuit. If you are confident of your grounding points, I would consider pulling the alternator and checking for a short.

If there is a heavy parasitic draw, I would expect a good arc when slowly connecting the battery terminals.

 

[Mike NXP]

The lights which stopped working are characteristic of a fault in the charging circuit. If you are confident of your grounding points, I would consider pulling the alternator and checking for a short.

If there is a heavy parasitic draw, I would expect a good arc when slowly connecting the battery terminals.

Thanks for the information

In regards to the possible draw, shouldn't I somehow be able to test / see the draw on my meter?

As for alternator / bad ground somewhere, I will turn my attention to that and see if anything stands out. I'm not confident in all of my grounds, best I can do is follow the negative cable from the battery and I see where they connect to engine / fender , and those particular grounds look good. Electrical diagrams also say there are grounds on the driver and passenger side A Pillar which I can't locate.


The other thing I noticed was that when I tested B+ on the alternator with the engine running it was showing 13+V but I need to check again

 

[AirheadNut]

Yes, that is the correct way to measure for parasitic draw. It is possible that the internal fuse in your meter is blown, usually they're a 10A rating.

If you're seeing 13+V at the alternator but the battery is only charging at just over 12V then there is definitely a problem in your charge circuit. Either a ground is bad or there is significant resistance in your positive charge cable between the alternator and the battery.

 

[Mike NXP]

Yes, that is the correct way to measure for parasitic draw. It is possible that the internal fuse in your meter is blown, usually they're a 10A rating.

If you're seeing 13+V at the alternator but the battery is only charging at just over 12V then there is definitely a problem in your charge circuit. Either a ground is bad or there is significant resistance in your positive charge cable between the alternator and the battery.

Ah, yeah maybe I blew the fuse....I took it apart but then realized I can't test the fuse with no meter lol .....F**k, alright well I'll have to start poking around near the alternator to see what I can figure out.

• I'm really hoping the alternator itself is OK since it's putting out 13+V .
• I'd assume that if I had corrosion / resistance in the charge cable that it would for sure translate to lack of battery charge....but I'm not convinced that would relate to the battery draining with vehicle off, right?
• A bad ground or short on the other hand I can see relating to maybe all of these problems but what the hell do I know.
  
  
  
  The electrical diagram shows the charge circuit grounding 'under left front pillar' The dashboard meter also shares the same ground along with ' under right front pillar' >> Would this be inside the vehicle?

It looks like the alternator grounds out to the engine block, so I should make sure those bolts are tight. Otherwise it looks like some of the other circuits, like glow plug timer, filter warning, and others all ground at the same point under left pillar....not sure if I'm reading this right though

• 
  

 

[AirheadNut]

The meter should still be able to do continuity and voltage tests without the fuse, that is only required for amperage measurements. A small short somewhere along the charge circuit could definitely cause the battery to drain down. I'd check the line labeled 'W' going from the alternator output to the 0.3P fusible link.

 

[AirheadNut]

Hard to see from your previous photo of the battery and fuse/relay panel, but could there be a couple of old style wire fusible links coming off the positive battery terminal? I doubt the pink 30A fuse in the panel is the 0.3P fusible link, that nomenclature signifies that it should be a 0.3mm pink wire fusible link, which would be rated for the alternator amperage (likely higher than 30A).

 

[Mike NXP]

Ah, OK yeah I bet the fuse is blown. It's an old meter and I also think I heard a pop when I hooked up....

OK my wife has a better phone, below is a picture showing the fuse box with the 30amp labeled as fusible link. You can also see those two little frail cables coming off the positive cable. I have no idea what these are. I squeezed a bit down the line and didn't feel any like inline fuse deal but wouldn't know for sure until I cut back that rubber

>> When I first bought the vehicle, the + terminal was all ghetto rigged and barley held together. So I replaced the terminal and prayed to Toyota Gods that nothing broke on those small cables.

PS, this is what Toyota thinks mechanics look like

 

[Mike NXP]

• Along the lines of what you suggested the Alt appears to be rated for higher amps and it looks like I should be seeing more like 13.8 output
  
  
• Following the W line back from the alternator towards the battery and it follows the B line shown below. It appears that it passes through the ' 60A FL AMI " if I am reading any of this right
  
  
• I removed the positive cable from the alternator and confirmed continuity between Alt side and Battery side

 

[AirheadNut]

Ok, so those two small wires coming off the battery terminal will be your 2.0L and 0.3P fusible links, basically a short section of wire with special fireproof insulation that will act as a fuse if the main wiring harness shorts out. The blue one in the photo will be 2.0L and the other should have pink insulation under the black sheath. The wires are the inline fuses. The alternator wiring passes through the 0.3P fusible link to the battery according to the charging system diagram you posted earlier, the battery side should be shown on Diagram 4, Section 7 in your manual. Each page of the wiring diagrams only shows the components relevant to that section of the vehicle wiring so not everything will be shown on a given page.

Regarding the fuse in your multimeter, I would not be surprised if connecting it between the ground cable and battery terminal would pop it since there could easily be a rush of current when you first connect up the battery. (I've had this happen quite a few times). To get around this problem you can use a battery terminal mounted blade switch: connect up the switch between the battery and the ground cable, then with the switch closed attach the multimeter probes to each side of the switch, then open the contacts and take a reading. My brother @SnowVersion in Kalispell has a setup like that, I can see if he'd be willing to lend it to you so you don't keep popping fuses.

 

[Mike NXP]

Ok, so those two small wires coming off the battery terminal will be your 2.0L and 0.3P fusible links, basically a short section of wire with special fireproof insulation that will act as a fuse if the main wiring harness shorts out. The blue one in the photo will be 2.0L and the other should have pink insulation under the black sheath. The wires are the inline fuses. The alternator wiring passes through the 0.3P fusible link to the battery according to the charging system diagram you posted earlier, the battery side should be shown on Diagram 4, Section 7 in your manual. Each page of the wiring diagrams only shows the components relevant to that section of the vehicle wiring so not everything will be shown on a given page.

Regarding the fuse in your multimeter, I would not be surprised if connecting it between the ground cable and battery terminal would pop it since there could easily be a rush of current when you first connect up the battery. (I've had this happen quite a few times). To get around this problem you can use a battery terminal mounted blade switch: connect up the switch between the battery and the ground cable, then with the switch closed attach the multimeter probes to each side of the switch, then open the contacts and take a reading. My brother @SnowVersion in Kalispell has a setup like that, I can see if he'd be willing to lend it to you so you don't keep popping fuses.

dude thanks for taking the time to school me on all of that.....I've never seen a 'fusible link' like what I've got here so that's cool to figure out what those little wires are......If I remember right, when I first got the vehicle those wires were like braided in with the main power wire. I thought it was an accessory wire so I just secured it off to the side with the terrible crimp job seen below

OK what do you think, I guess I should disconnect those wires and peel back the insulation to see what's going on.

----

Diag 4 / 7 shown below for reference. Does any of this tell me what AWG the wire is?

 

[AirheadNut]

How are the fusible links connected in with the main vehicle harness? Usually there would be a plug or a ring terminal on the ends of the fusible links to connect with the vehicle harness. You could try disconnecting them and just attaching a suitably large wire between the harness and the battery to see if that makes any difference. Depending on how it may have been butchered in a previous life the fusible link connections may be poor enough to cause an issue.