1984 FJ60 Hard Starting When Sitting Overnight
- Thread starter Gretsch
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Those red vinyl caps suck. They fit nicely at first, but after they got hot they melt/expand and eventually fall off.
The universal rubber auto parts store vacuum caps aren’t any better either.
The universal rubber auto parts store vacuum caps aren’t any better either.
Gretsch
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- Thread starter
- #23
OK good to know. Maybe that's all that's happened here is the cap came off. I don't recall removing it but again I was doing many things at the time so I cannot be 100% positive it wasn't me. I'll go with "it just fell off".
I put a cap on there which I think came from just a set of those generic vacuum caps you mentioned. Are there some better ones I should take a look at for this?
CuCruiser
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That can be a functioning part on a desmogged 2F also. It's the EVAP inlet from the charcoal canister.
Trade cap for spaghetti? (Yellow Lines)
Trade cap for spaghetti? (Yellow Lines)
Gretsch
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- #25
Ah sweet. That actually may be what I want to look into here. I don't recall seeing any open ports on my canister so might need to figure out where that one goes. With this cap on it seems the engine sounds sort of bogged down when it idles. Performance does not seem to suffer really but just sounds sort of 'flabby' with the cap on if that makes sense. So would be interested in getting the evap thing put back instead of capping.
If I had this to do again I think I would go with a smogged truck. Confusing to try to work on a motor that has a bunch of missing parts to start with. I look in there and don't realize fully whats missing without looking through manuals to figure it out.
I assume the picture above is of a desmogged truck, but with certain bits retained? HAC and whatnot?
Someone along the way in my trucks life did the desmog. The PO spent a ton of money to 'fix' the desmog job done by whomever had the truck before the PO owned it. So sounds like I am just finishing up things little by little to get it where it should be.
Thanks much for this post @CuCruiser. I'll try and get the evap thing figured out and get it right.
OK good to know. Maybe that's all that's happened here is the cap came off. I don't recall removing it but again I was doing many things at the time so I cannot be 100% positive it wasn't me. I'll go with "it just fell off".
I put a cap on there which I think came from just a set of those generic vacuum caps you mentioned. Are there some better ones I should take a look at for this?
The rubber generic caps won’t melt like the vinyl, but they tend to crack within a year or two. Keep an eye on them.
Not sure if the sight glass question was answered before? I am pretty sure I had a similar issue and there ended up being an O-ring in my carb rebuild kit that fits behind that sight glass. Pretty sure mine still had the original one in it because when I pulled the glass out, that O-ring borderline disintegrated
You can't just run a hose from the carb base L pipe to the charcoal canister. Then you'll be back in the same boat again with a huge vacuum leak. There's a vacuum switching valve and other assorted vacuum plumbing that goes between that L pipe and the charcoal canister. See the emissions FSM. It's clearly illustrated there.
A better way to cap that L pipe is to get a short piece of vacuum hose that fits it, then plug the hose.
On a fully functioning smog legal 2F, the venting to that L pipe at the base of the carb only happens at mid(ish) throttle. It's inactive at idle & fast idle.
A better way to cap that L pipe is to get a short piece of vacuum hose that fits it, then plug the hose.
On a fully functioning smog legal 2F, the venting to that L pipe at the base of the carb only happens at mid(ish) throttle. It's inactive at idle & fast idle.
^^^x2. Get some vacuum silicon vac tubing and stick a golf tee into it or a small ball bearing that has a tight fit.
John McVicker
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Gretsch
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- #31
Yeah you were the first to answer on that. So sounds like the gasket is not available alone but part of a kit. It seems the leak is almost from where the metal cover and the glass meet. I am assuming that the metal and glass are one piece and the gasket you mention just tucks behind this glass/metal pairing? Maybe that's not correct but it look like it.
Ah OK. I am pretty sure I don't have any of the valves needed to make this work then. I can work the hose/plug angle. Truck runs fine just capped as far as I can tell. I included some current pics to hopefully illustrate what I am working with here.
So trying to understand the physics here. Without this cap, I am creating a vacuum leak at the carb which could cause hard starting (I believe @OSS mentions vacuum leaks as a possible cause of hard starts early on in this thread). With a vacuum leak there, the air does not get sucked in properly (and thus the fuel does not get vaporized correctly)as the vacuum is getting vented to atmosphere. This causes the truck to be hard to start. Sound correct?
Incidentally, after work today, I came out to try and start the truck (temps in mid 30s), and it was a beast to start again. Not as bad as yesterday but took a good 5-7 minutes to get her going. I pumped gas twice, choke out and just crank crank. This morning when she started right up I got it to start right up with no gas pumps so I might have messed up today after work by pumping the pedal. Not sure. I'll try this again tomorrow morning with no pump of the gas and see how it goes. Following the @OSS startup procedure. This morning it fired right up immediately with no pedal pump. Today sitting outside all day and two pedal pumps, crank crank crank. I did adjust the idle speed this morning a bit and got it a bit too high I think after getting it started. Not sure if that would have any effect. I re-adjusted when I got home and got her around the 750 range. So may still have some bugs to work out here. Clearly I need to re-hash the Emissions FSM. Thanks for the replies everyone.
Yeah the rubber o-ring fits in between the glass and the carb. O-ring part number is 21655-60200 and it looks like it's available from Toyota
Gretsch
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Gretsch
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- Thread starter
- #34
So for those following along at home here, I got in the truck today, and tried to follow along with the starting procedure @OSS posted. I got so far as to pull the choke and start the initial crank with no pedal pumps as @OSS stated in his procedure. It started right up instantly such that I did not have to do anything else. Just like yesterday morning. Not sure what yesterday afternoon was about but today she was ready. Must have gotten her beauty sleep. I will source some vacuum hose and get the cap situation sorted. But other than that I am gonna let it ride next week and see how she does. Temps will be in the 60s I think so not as cold for testing. Will see what we get. Again all thanks for the help.
CaptClose
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A 2F wants to start and run. It just needs three basic things:
1. Fuel
2. Air
3. Spark
Like @OSS said, a properly maintained 2F should require little effort to turn over.
You should familiarize yourself with the emissions system, as well as the secondary vacuum systems. Most people throw the baby out with the bath water when they desmog the truck. You may find that adding some components back into your system, helpful.
Also, EVERY cruiser owner should have a vacuum gauge. They are less than 20 dollars at your local auto parts place and would have easily identified the problem and led you to the leak at the base of your carb.
My suggestion would be to start from scratch and do a proper desmog. There’s a manual on here somewhere that someone who is smarter at searching than me, can link to for you. First, check your vacuum and get a baseline reading to see where you are right now. Confirm your timing is correct as well. Then you can start cleaning up the desmog and auxiliary components.
If you still have problems that you cannot alleviate with a carb tuning, then it may be time to rebuild the carb.
1. Fuel
2. Air
3. Spark
Like @OSS said, a properly maintained 2F should require little effort to turn over.
You should familiarize yourself with the emissions system, as well as the secondary vacuum systems. Most people throw the baby out with the bath water when they desmog the truck. You may find that adding some components back into your system, helpful.
Also, EVERY cruiser owner should have a vacuum gauge. They are less than 20 dollars at your local auto parts place and would have easily identified the problem and led you to the leak at the base of your carb.
My suggestion would be to start from scratch and do a proper desmog. There’s a manual on here somewhere that someone who is smarter at searching than me, can link to for you. First, check your vacuum and get a baseline reading to see where you are right now. Confirm your timing is correct as well. Then you can start cleaning up the desmog and auxiliary components.
If you still have problems that you cannot alleviate with a carb tuning, then it may be time to rebuild the carb.
Gretsch
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- Thread starter
- #36
Yes thanks. Carb has been rebuilt by PO. Not by him but from a cruiser specialist down in Austin. If I had to go that route again I would probably just replace the carb at this point rather than rebuild it. I am not sure who did the desmog on this thing but I know its had to be re-done at least once by the same specialist. As I mentioned, I would have prefered a stock smogged truck if I had to do it again. There are so many emissions parts missing on mine it seems that it would cost me ridiculous sums to get it back. But agreed adding key components back would most likely help here. I believe I already have the desmog manual you speak of so I'll look through that again. Its attached in case anyone else is looking for it. Going through this desmog is on my list of things to accomplish. Time has not yet presented itself. Its becoming clear more and more the desmog on here was not done properly to begin with and going through it again would probably help.
I am aware of my deficiencies with regards to vacuum and emissions systems knowledge on the 2F. Trying to familiarize myself with it as time permits. But yes I have a ways to go. So thanks everyone for the help.
I am aware of my deficiencies with regards to vacuum and emissions systems knowledge on the 2F. Trying to familiarize myself with it as time permits. But yes I have a ways to go. So thanks everyone for the help.
CuCruiser
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Very helpful desmog chart here. I was in the same spot as you a few years ago, bad desmog and no experience. A lot of tuning and studying and I now have a 2F that runs like a top. You will get there, just drive, fix, repeat. Good Luck Robert!
My Desmog Keeping HAC Lots of Pics
My Desmog Keeping HAC Lots of Pics
NeverGiveUpYota
Dare me.
My truck was desmogged when I bought it. No vcvs, no fuel decel, a poorly routed carbon canister, the pcv was plugged w/ rusty sludge and a non functioning vacuum
advance but it ran. Oh and a crack in the intake manifold. It was really ugly.
Now it’s got the evap vcv, distributor vcv, fuel decel, a city racer carb, a functioning vacuum advance (most likely you won’t find, they were a lucky break only a bunch of us snagged), a new pcv and I had the intake welded.... all that stuff isn’t hard to replace and put in line.
advance but it ran. Oh and a crack in the intake manifold. It was really ugly.
Now it’s got the evap vcv, distributor vcv, fuel decel, a city racer carb, a functioning vacuum advance (most likely you won’t find, they were a lucky break only a bunch of us snagged), a new pcv and I had the intake welded.... all that stuff isn’t hard to replace and put in line.
Gretsch
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- #40
Sounds like I am in the same place you were. Will just have to work through the doc and figure out whats missing. VCVs for sure are gone, no HAC, violet BVSV is broke, pink is good AFAIK, all the EGR stuff looks missing including the vacuum modulator, on and on. I am not sure how much of that stuff is still available new anymore but I can get rolling on it.
Dumb question here (would you expect anything less?). Looking at the vacuum diagram in the emissions FSM, there is what looks like some kind of distribution assembly thing for the vacuum lines sort of just in front of the carb, maybe a bit under the air cleaner hat. Like a collection of vacuum pipes sort of melded together which individual vacuum hoses would connect to. Like a distribution block of sorts for vacuum lines. Am I seeing this right? My truck has nothing like that any longer which since desmogged I guess is fine. Just curious how that's supposed to look.
Dumb question here (would you expect anything less?). Looking at the vacuum diagram in the emissions FSM, there is what looks like some kind of distribution assembly thing for the vacuum lines sort of just in front of the carb, maybe a bit under the air cleaner hat. Like a collection of vacuum pipes sort of melded together which individual vacuum hoses would connect to. Like a distribution block of sorts for vacuum lines. Am I seeing this right? My truck has nothing like that any longer which since desmogged I guess is fine. Just curious how that's supposed to look.
