Gretsch
SILVER Star
Hello mud. Me again with another FJ60 issue. Warning lots of reading ahead. As the title states I have issues starting my truck when it sits overnight. This has been going on now for maybe a year. When I first got the truck, it had a recently rebuilt carb, and starting was not an issue. Idling was. Now it seems that idling is fine but starting the truck is tough. I opened a thread on the idling issue and this great forum was able to set me straight on what the issue was (turns out it was the ICS not grounding properly). I have found many threads on this seemingly common starting issue, but not many answers. I have brought this issue up as an add-on issue to my ICS thread I had out there, but wanted to see if I could get additional traction with a thread specific to the starting problem. Again I realize this has been brought up before so apologies in advance for adding to the search fodder.
The issue is this. The truck runs great, idles great, has good power and acceleration (as best as can be expected with the 2F)….once its started for the day. In the morning, after sitting overnight, if I try and start the truck, it takes forever to catch and start. Sometimes 15-20 minutes of me trying various methods to get it going (pump pedal, don't pump pedal, choke out, choke in, etc.). Its garaged each night. If outside, it takes even longer. @OSS has posted methods to how to start these trucks in the various hard starting threads I mentioned, and I have tried those many times. They don't seem to work for me however.
Here is usually how it goes for me. Truck is driven daily. Up to work, drive her back home and she sits. Next day then goes like this:
1. Get in, and pump the pedal about 4 times. Pull out choke full. Try starting. Just cranks and cranks. I give it a rest and try again. Cranks and cranks.
2. Put choke in. Try to start again. Cranks and cranks. Nothing.
3. Wait about 2 minutes. Crank again. Just cranks and cranks.
4. Repeat this method maybe 3-4 times. Then rest it for another 2 minutes. Turn key completely off each rest period.
5. Try to start again. This time it sounds initially like its gonna start real quick, then goes back to the crank, crank.
6. Wait another turn minutes or so, key off. Then try to start again. Again sounds like its gonna start almost immediately, but then doesn't and goes back to crank, crank, crank.
7. Wait another 2 minutes, key off. This time it immediately sounds like its gonna start several times. Sounds like its struggling to catch and run but is trying hard to. Keeping the starter going with it doing this finally gets the engine to catch and ignite.
8. The engine then slowly starts to gurgle up to idle with me giving some gas to get the RPMs up. Sounds like its trying to almost die, but then giving it gas, eventually gets it to normal engine speed. Almost like its flooded out with too much fuel and it takes a second to burn off the excess until it finally gets to normal fuel flow and thus idle.
9. I pull choke out to get it to run a bit and warm up. Once run for about 3-4 minutes I put the choke in and it runs perfect from there.
10. Truck sits all day while at work. Lately, I'll have to repeat this whole process to get it started to go home at the end of the day.
Again the above is just the basic way it goes. I have tried various starting methods to try and improve things but nothing seems to change anything. I have also experienced this same truck, without changing anything, fire up almost immediately, almost too quickly to the point of startling me when it happens. But it typically has gone as described in the steps above. When the above happens, I do see fuel in the sight glass. It seems to have to 'fill' up the float bowl with fuel, but I think this is fairly normal for a truck sitting overnight. I am also aware, that this is a 30+ year old vehicle, so I understand perhaps if this whole thing is to be expected and is normal. The reason I bring it up here is because it used to not do this.
Full disclosure here, this starting issue seemed to coincide with the ICS grounding fix. I initially did the ground bypass mod, and it seemed to handle things for the most part with regards to the ICS issue. But then I re-flowed the solder on the engine computer for the ICS ground leads and removed the ground bypass and it has not been an issue since. I thought maybe that the ICS ground bypass mod has caused the hard start issue, so I was motivated to fix the ICS thing properly thinking it might handle my hard start issue. It hasn't so I think its purely coincidental that the hard starting started during the ICS issue. The fact that fuel is seen in the sight glass tells me that fuel is getting to the carb which if the ICS was closed because of a still-present ICS issue, would not occur as I understand the ICS to physically work. I suppose the act of placing the ground wire on the carb the way you do to do this mod could have changed something with the carb setup and how it works. But who knows.
I noticed recently that it looks like I have a slight leak at the sight glass. Could this contribute to fuel not being able to flow properly into the intake to allow the engine to start? Would a leak cause the pressures required to vaporize fuel into the air stream to not be correct, thus causing hard starts? It seems to me that it would just empty the bowl each night causing the need for the starting process above to be performed to fill the carb with fuel. I can smell fuel when trying to start the truck using the above procedure. But it refills quickly so not sure why its so hard to start. It seems to have fuel. Just does not use it. Perhaps having the fuel empty due to a leak, requires time for the fuel to properly vaporize into the intake when the bowl is refilled. I think if I were to stop this leak, it might fix things. But wanted to throw it out to the experts here. I could not find anywhere if the sight glass and gasket could be replaced separately as a part? Or am I looking at a whole new carb to handle this?
A few other things I want to mention here. I do not have any 'whoosh' sounds when opening the factory gas cap. I just purchased some new fuel line to replace my existing lines. Lines on here look original so replacing mine won't hurt. I am also getting together new battery cables to make sure were are set electrically and something like a poor ground is not causing poor ignitor functionality. Mine appear OK but new ones won't hurt IMO. New fuel filter is on order. One on here is about a year old but a new one won't hurt. I tried the grounding trick from the ignitor case to a good ground but it did nothing.
Thanks in advance for the help, and sorry for all the reading. Trying to be as thorough as possible here.
The issue is this. The truck runs great, idles great, has good power and acceleration (as best as can be expected with the 2F)….once its started for the day. In the morning, after sitting overnight, if I try and start the truck, it takes forever to catch and start. Sometimes 15-20 minutes of me trying various methods to get it going (pump pedal, don't pump pedal, choke out, choke in, etc.). Its garaged each night. If outside, it takes even longer. @OSS has posted methods to how to start these trucks in the various hard starting threads I mentioned, and I have tried those many times. They don't seem to work for me however.
Here is usually how it goes for me. Truck is driven daily. Up to work, drive her back home and she sits. Next day then goes like this:
1. Get in, and pump the pedal about 4 times. Pull out choke full. Try starting. Just cranks and cranks. I give it a rest and try again. Cranks and cranks.
2. Put choke in. Try to start again. Cranks and cranks. Nothing.
3. Wait about 2 minutes. Crank again. Just cranks and cranks.
4. Repeat this method maybe 3-4 times. Then rest it for another 2 minutes. Turn key completely off each rest period.
5. Try to start again. This time it sounds initially like its gonna start real quick, then goes back to the crank, crank.
6. Wait another turn minutes or so, key off. Then try to start again. Again sounds like its gonna start almost immediately, but then doesn't and goes back to crank, crank, crank.
7. Wait another 2 minutes, key off. This time it immediately sounds like its gonna start several times. Sounds like its struggling to catch and run but is trying hard to. Keeping the starter going with it doing this finally gets the engine to catch and ignite.
8. The engine then slowly starts to gurgle up to idle with me giving some gas to get the RPMs up. Sounds like its trying to almost die, but then giving it gas, eventually gets it to normal engine speed. Almost like its flooded out with too much fuel and it takes a second to burn off the excess until it finally gets to normal fuel flow and thus idle.
9. I pull choke out to get it to run a bit and warm up. Once run for about 3-4 minutes I put the choke in and it runs perfect from there.
10. Truck sits all day while at work. Lately, I'll have to repeat this whole process to get it started to go home at the end of the day.
Again the above is just the basic way it goes. I have tried various starting methods to try and improve things but nothing seems to change anything. I have also experienced this same truck, without changing anything, fire up almost immediately, almost too quickly to the point of startling me when it happens. But it typically has gone as described in the steps above. When the above happens, I do see fuel in the sight glass. It seems to have to 'fill' up the float bowl with fuel, but I think this is fairly normal for a truck sitting overnight. I am also aware, that this is a 30+ year old vehicle, so I understand perhaps if this whole thing is to be expected and is normal. The reason I bring it up here is because it used to not do this.
Full disclosure here, this starting issue seemed to coincide with the ICS grounding fix. I initially did the ground bypass mod, and it seemed to handle things for the most part with regards to the ICS issue. But then I re-flowed the solder on the engine computer for the ICS ground leads and removed the ground bypass and it has not been an issue since. I thought maybe that the ICS ground bypass mod has caused the hard start issue, so I was motivated to fix the ICS thing properly thinking it might handle my hard start issue. It hasn't so I think its purely coincidental that the hard starting started during the ICS issue. The fact that fuel is seen in the sight glass tells me that fuel is getting to the carb which if the ICS was closed because of a still-present ICS issue, would not occur as I understand the ICS to physically work. I suppose the act of placing the ground wire on the carb the way you do to do this mod could have changed something with the carb setup and how it works. But who knows.
I noticed recently that it looks like I have a slight leak at the sight glass. Could this contribute to fuel not being able to flow properly into the intake to allow the engine to start? Would a leak cause the pressures required to vaporize fuel into the air stream to not be correct, thus causing hard starts? It seems to me that it would just empty the bowl each night causing the need for the starting process above to be performed to fill the carb with fuel. I can smell fuel when trying to start the truck using the above procedure. But it refills quickly so not sure why its so hard to start. It seems to have fuel. Just does not use it. Perhaps having the fuel empty due to a leak, requires time for the fuel to properly vaporize into the intake when the bowl is refilled. I think if I were to stop this leak, it might fix things. But wanted to throw it out to the experts here. I could not find anywhere if the sight glass and gasket could be replaced separately as a part? Or am I looking at a whole new carb to handle this?
A few other things I want to mention here. I do not have any 'whoosh' sounds when opening the factory gas cap. I just purchased some new fuel line to replace my existing lines. Lines on here look original so replacing mine won't hurt. I am also getting together new battery cables to make sure were are set electrically and something like a poor ground is not causing poor ignitor functionality. Mine appear OK but new ones won't hurt IMO. New fuel filter is on order. One on here is about a year old but a new one won't hurt. I tried the grounding trick from the ignitor case to a good ground but it did nothing.
Thanks in advance for the help, and sorry for all the reading. Trying to be as thorough as possible here.
Where that cap is now is anyone's guess. This would certainly explain why it worked at first and then stopped. Geeze man, now I feel like a real a**clown. I'll get another cap and see if that improves things.
