Builds 1977 FJ40 Rebuild – Focus on Custom Stainless Tub (3 Viewers)

[psmbfuer]

Thanks much knuckle47. We too like the way it looks, four shades of green, rusty front fenders, and all. There is still a lot to go, but the work has slowed since being back on the road. This thread is still not up to current though, so more soon.

 

[J40Fan]

And now several pics of the cowl - and even through it might look like we used some mud/filler, these different colors are new and old layers of primer and paint. And as before, the black is SEM Rust Trap, and it is compatiable with the primer and top coat.
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And below we jump straight to Rustic Green, but we did spay two coats of primer before this.
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Curious as to your decision as to go with Sem verses POR, Rust Bulletin, or Eastwood products?

 

[J40Fan]

Since we plan to build additional 40s and an extended cab 45s after this build, and because we will be cutting everything on a plasma CNC table, we made every effort to make this process as repeatable as possible. To do this, we starting making drawings of each of the components and panels that we plan to cut and form. We also designed the panels so they could generally be bent either with a hammer or a home made bender (don't run just yet, these can result in very clean bends), and sometimes both. Later in the build, I did manage to pick up a 13 Ton press for very cheap, but more on that later.

We went through the same process for each panel and continued drawing each part and/or panels, test cut most of them in carbon steel (much cheaper to make a mistake), and refined the drawings if / as needed.

Driver's Floor
Below, you will see various pictures of the driver's floor. I'm starting with this floor pan in that it was one of the first panels that we built and you will see the manual bender that we built and used to bend most of the edges on this floor panel. If you look closely, you will see that some of the hammer rolling is a little rough. You can get much better at this with a little practice and this was cleaned up later. I also have an air chissel that I purchased plastic (I don't recall the durometer rating, but let's say it medium-hard to hard, maybe 80 - 90 Shore A), brass, and steel hammers. And again with a bit of learning and attention, these can be a big help - and even though their heads are slightly rounded, it is not difficult to press hammer head edge marks in the the rolled area if you get your hitting angle wrong, especially on tigher inside corners. I find it best to use the round end of a ball peen hammer for these inside corners.

Below are several pics:

1. A drawing of the driver's floor with the hammer jig overlay that would allow us to bend the curved edge for the transmission hump area.
2. I then convert these drawings to DXF drawing files, which are then converted to a G-code files that will be used by the CNC table (see upper left portion of the pic. The G-Code file simplistically contains X, Y, and Z move coordinates and Torch on / off commands that in the end cut the stainless panel.
3. The main floor panel about to be cut on the CNC table.
4. The resulting panel about to be bent on the homemade bender.
5. and onward - Several shots of the resulting floor replacement along with mounts and the small piece that lives just below the gas pedal.

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In the below picture I use several large C-clamps to pinch the stainless in place between the blue channel to the top of the bender. Then you just push / rotate the rebar handle on the left to make the bend. Not the best pic and I can't locate any with the clamps, but you get the point. For what its worth, this little bender is pretty useful, simple and inexpensive to make, especially for as low-tech as it is. You will also need a sturdy and secure table to clamp it to.
View attachment 3752770
The above bender was used to bend all edges on this floor panel other than the edge for the tranny. And I was concerned I would damage it when bending the long rear and outer edges, so I only managed to get a roughly 80 - 85 degree angle on these two edges and I used a large rubber mallet for the last 5 - 10 degrees.
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Were you able to reuse the body mount bolts or did you replace all body mount bolt with OEM or something else? I am looking for replacement bolts/nuts for my rig.

 

[psmbfuer]

Curious as to your decision as to go with Sem verses POR, Rust Bulletin, or Eastwood products?

I don't have a very scientific answer for you, but I have been trying to defeat rust since I was quite young helping my dad on his cars. And by 18, over 40 years ago, I had my first car and continued to fight rust. By the late 80s I was using POR and it was pretty good when it stayed on, but sometimes, it would peal off - in sheets. I should also point out that I was very meticulous about the prep work and used all three of the POR products for prep, clean and coating. After my first pealing experience, I figured it was my fault, and I tried it again on my next job, read all of the instructions again and very carefully cleaned and prepped the surface, etc. And again, it seemed excellent for a while, but then I had the same issues.

Then I talked to a friend who has a body shop and he introduced me to Rust Trap. One of the first differences was that Rust Trap was bottle much better than POR and you can seal it over and over again and still use it, as long as you don't exceed the recommended 1-year shelf life, at least not by too much. I have also used Rust Shield, and it too is quite good, but is not moisture cured. Rust Trap is thin like POR and I generally use a minimum or 3 coats, and generally 4, unless I'm spraying it and use 2 to 3 coats. And it is very flexible - I have separated by brand new leaf packs for my BJ42, painting each leaf with Rust Trap, and I'm hoping that it holds up for a long time.

I have also used the Eastwood products and they are decent, but I didn't have the best experience with Rust Converter, so continued to use Rust Trap and generally then top coat.

For a more scientific view to your question, see the following videos. This fellow does and excellent job of testing, using a diverse set of tests in a repeatable, comparable manner - he too is not a fan of POR - your mileage may vary - I know some love it and I have no intention to bad mouth it, just sharing my experience, which is admittedly a bit old.

It is also worth mentioning that for my 40, I plan to pull the tub and want the frame to look pretty close to new before the tub goes back on. But, if you are just trying to preserve a frame that is in good shape, and don't care if you can eat off of it, either Fluid Film and/or Surface Shield do an amazing job and they take a lot less time to prep and spray, in general. For example, my daily driver is a 4Runner and I simply apply Fluid Film before winter and it worked amazingly well. I'm thinking of using both this coming fall, using Surface Shield in areas that see a lot more water spray from the tires, and Fluid Film on the rest.

1. If You Think POR 15 is Good Paint... Watch This Video! Paint Testing Eastwood, KBS, POR15, and More.
2. Best Rust Encapsulating Paint... POR-15, KBS, Eastwood Platinum, Raptor Liner & More.
3. MOST Rust Converters Are A JOKE! Let Me Show You. (Eastwood, KBS, Corroseal, Ospho & More).

Sorry this is getting long, but I have also transitioned to trying out Mastercoat Permanent Rust Sealer & Chassis Black Finish Combo (AG111). It is thicker than POR and Rust Trap, and only requires 2 + 1 coats, whereas I almost always go with 3 or 4 coats of Rust Trap unless I'm spraying, when 2 to 3 will do. One of the recent jobs I use the Mastercoat combo on is to protect angle iron that serves to tie several pieces of lumber together out at the road - this was intentional to help test it against full weather, sun, and winter salt.

Regarding salt, POR advertises 1000 hours for the salt spray test, although I have seen 2000 hours at this test. SEM doesn't publish their salt spray results to my knowledge and I have talked to SEM engineers, but still no luck. In comparison, Mastercost publishes the following:

"Mastercoat Permanent Rust Sealer is a moisture cured urethane. The more moisture in the air, the faster it dries so it’s actually strengthened by moisture. The aluminum powder in the coating cuts off the oxygen so the coating itself is waterproof and air tight. It’ll withstand 8000 hours of salt spray. This product was originally developed in the mid-70’s as a bridge primer. Bridges coated with 2 coats of silver and one coat of color such as our AG111 Ultimate Finish Coating have a documented 20-25 year service life and will take up to 14,000 hours of salt spray."​

Hopefully something above helps you with your choice.

 

[psmbfuer]

Were you able to reuse the body mount bolts or did you replace all body mount bolt with OEM or something else? I am looking for replacement bolts/nuts for my rig.

I replaced all of the bolts and mounts with the Energy Suspension 8.4104 Body Mount Bushings Kit. I should say most - in the rear, I used M10 stainless bolts with the new Energy pads - the rear sill redesign needed a differently length bolt.

 

[J40Fan]

I don't have a real scientific answer for you, but I have been trying to defeat rust since I was quite young helping my dad on his cars. And by 18, over 40 years ago, I had my first car and continued to fight rust. By the late 80s I was using POR and it was pretty good when it stayed on, but sometimes, it would peal off - in sheets. I should also point out that I was very meticulous about the prep work and used all three of the POR products for prep, clean and coating. After my first pealing experience, I figured it was my fault, and I tried it again on my next job, read all of the instructions again and very carefully cleaned and prepped the surface, etc. And again, it seemed excellent for a while, but then I had the same issues.

Then I talked to a friend who has a body shop and he introduced me to Rust Trap. One of the first differences was that Rust Trap was bottle much better than POR and you can seal it over and over again and still use it, as long as you don't exceed the recommended 1-year shelf life, at least not by too much. I have also used Rust Shield, and it too is quite good, but is not moisture cured. Rust Trap is thin like POR and I generally use a minimum or 3 coats, and generally 4, unless I'm spraying it and use 2 to 3 coats. And it is very flexible - I have separated by brand new leaf packs for my BJ42, painting each leaf with Rust Trap, and I'm hoping that it holds up for a long time.

I have also used the Eastwood products and they are decent, but I didn't have the best experience with Rust Converter, so continued to use Rust Trap and generally then top coat.

For a more scientific view to your question, see the following videos. This fellow does and excellent job of testing, using a diverse set of tests in a repeatable, comparable manner - he too is not a fan of POR - your mileage may vary - I know some love it and I have no intention to bad mouth it, just sharing my experience, which is admittedly a bit old.

It is also worth mentioning that for my 40, I plan to pull the tub and want the frame to look pretty close to new before the tub goes back on. But, if you are just trying to preserve a frame that is in good shape, and don't care if you can eat off of it, either Fluid Film and/or Surface Shield do an amazing job and they take a lot less time to prep and spray, in general. For example, my daily driver is a 4Runner and I simply apply Fluid Film before winter and it worked amazingly well. I'm thinking of using both this coming fall, using Surface Shield in areas that see a lot more water spray from the tires, and Fluid Film on the rest.

1. If You Think POR 15 is Good Paint... Watch This Video! Paint Testing Eastwood, KBS, POR15, and More.
2. Best Rust Encapsulating Paint... POR-15, KBS, Eastwood Platinum, Raptor Liner & More.
3. MOST Rust Converters Are A JOKE! Let Me Show You. (Eastwood, KBS, Corroseal, Ospho & More).

Sorry this is getting long, but I have also transitioned to trying out Mastercoat Permanent Rust Sealer & Chassis Black Finish Combo (AG111). It is thicker than POR and Rust Trap, and only requires 2 + 1 coats, whereas I almost always go with 3 or 4 coats of Rust Trap unless I'm spraying, when 2 to 3 will do. One of the recent jobs I use the Mastercoat combo on is to protect angle iron that serves to tie several pieces of lumber together out at the road - this was intentional to help test it against full weather, sun, and winter salt.

Regarding salt, POR advertises 1000 hours for the salt spray test, SEM doesn't publish their salt spray results to my knowledge and I have talked to SEM engineers, but still no luck. In comparison, Mastercost publishes the following:

"Mastercoat Permanent Rust Sealer is a moisture cured urethane. The more moisture in the air, the faster it dries so it’s actually strengthened by moisture. The aluminum powder in the coating cuts off the oxygen so the coating itself is waterproof and air tight. It’ll withstand 8000 hours of salt spray. This product was originally developed in the mid-70’s as a bridge primer. Bridges coated with 2 coats of silver and one coat of color such as our AG111 Ultimate Finish Coating have a documented 20-25 year service life and will take up to 14,000 hours of salt spray."​

Hopefully something above helps you make a choice.

Thanks, that is a lot to chew on and very good information. I have never used POR personally. I used Rust bullet on the frame and undercarriage of my 77 Bj and it has held up well for 10 years with still more years available. I may give SEM a try.

 

[psmbfuer]

Thanks, that is a lot to chew on and very good information. I have never used POR personally. I used Rust bullet on the frame and undercarriage of my 77 Bj and it has held up well for 10 years with still more years available. I may give SEM a try.

And since the above is so long, I will emphasize that I'm leaning more toward the Mastercoat Combo - if you can get it - it is almost always sold out and I have heard good things about Rust Bullet as well, but have never used it. I'm pulling the bed off my son's pickup this weekend and will be doing the frame and underside of the bed with the Mastercoat combo - I plan to thin and spray this time.

 

[knuckle47]

My own experience with POR was identical to yours @psmbfuer … it peeled off in sheets around 2-3 years after application…. It was for a boat trailer and application was not difficult for reaching all areas properly.

 

[wimberosa]

My experience as well. Rust converters are a joke. I wish I'd known about Mastercoat years ago. That sounds like its
been properly battle tested with bridges and is making some strong claims. @psmbfuer ... you've practically covered the whole
issue in one post. Well done.

 

[psmbfuer]

Thanks for the inputs @knuckle47 and @wimberosa - reassuring to see similar results. It's a shame that it has taken most of us decades of trial and error, researching, etc., to figure this out. And just when you think you have it sorted, the regulations and chemistry of your favorite paint changes, or something game-changing comes out to change your workflow - which can be a good thing, even if unexpected.

 

[OlYellr]

My experience with POR is as above. I’m am a fan of Mastercoat… only issues is getting hands on some which depends on when conditions are right for them to make another batch.

Eastwood has been ok - better than POR by far in my experience.

 

[J40Fan]

My experience with POR is as above. I’m am a fan of Mastercoat… only issues is getting hands on some which depends on when conditions are right for them to make another batch.

Eastwood has been ok - better than POR by far in my experience.

What were your issues with rust converters? Did they peel or did the corrosion just bleed through over time?

 

[OlYellr]

What were your issues with rust converters? Did the peel or did the corrosion just bleed through over time?

POR would peel despite proper prep.

I did rust reformer and corrosion would resurface (pun intended) about a year out. The Eastwood rust converter (not the gel) has given me results that last longer. The Gel is POS in my experience.

 

[psmbfuer]

Bleed through!

I had the entire front of my LX450 off to replace the radiator, front main seal, oil pump o-ring, etc., and with this of course had excellent access to the frame. (We took a break from the 77 FJ40 to get the LX freshed up for my son 16th birthday.) The passenger side frame top had surface rust and I figured I would give Eastwood Converter a try - it was a small area and I just wanted a simple spray-can solution. The Converter was new and I prepped the frame well with the needle scaler, sanding, and acetone - and the paint went on well, and had a very consistent and good looking finish, slightly flatter than semi-gloss. It didn't take long, (not very accurate, but I just can't provide a more meaningful timeframe) and the finish gave way to bleed through. That was back in 2017 and the last time I haven't touched EW Converter since.

 

[OlYellr]

My difference is the EW I used was paint on. And was the best option for my situation because Mastercoat was not available and I had to keep moving

Anyway.. great discussion and love the work @psmbfuer

 

[psmbfuer]

Thanks @OlYellr and agreed, the discussion is the best part, so thanks to you and everyone for all the questions and contributions.