Ha…! It looks like you could eat off of that floor…. Spectacular job you’re doing.
Builds 1977 FJ40 Rebuild – Focus on Custom Stainless Tub
- Thread starter psmbfuer
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #223
Coming back to the wheel / hub cap clips, see post #196 and #202 where @fireflyr and I were discussing this. I now have both sets and there is a roughly ~34% increase in weight and a ~44% increase in thickness when comparing the CityRacer to the The Florida Yard clips.
I can't say if this difference will have real world meaning or if one will be better than another in that, for example, the hub caps might be more difficult to install and removed with the Florida Yard clips due to them being more rigid, but they might also last longer - I'm simply not in a position to comment.
Here are several pics of the process in case my words above are lacking. The weights shown are after taring the scale for the weight of the container.
CityRacer Weight:
The Florida Yard Weight:
CityRacer Thickness:
The Florida Yard Thickness:
I can't say if this difference will have real world meaning or if one will be better than another in that, for example, the hub caps might be more difficult to install and removed with the Florida Yard clips due to them being more rigid, but they might also last longer - I'm simply not in a position to comment.
Here are several pics of the process in case my words above are lacking. The weights shown are after taring the scale for the weight of the container.
CityRacer Weight:
The Florida Yard Weight:
CityRacer Thickness:
The Florida Yard Thickness:
I’d say this…. Like spark plugs, when the old ones wear out, change ‘em… 
By the way, only thinking out loud and prematurely… can these be riveted on?
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #227
Apologies knuckle47, I missed your second question. My understanding of most rivets is that they need to protrude out the back so they can expand when installed, holding the two riveted surfaces together. Assuming the last sentence to be true, when installing them on fifteen52s, the rivet would need to be an estimated 1.75 inches long to protrude out the back, maybe longer. That said, I could imagine using, for example, a 1/8th rivet in a ~3/16 blind hole, and possibly this would give the rivet enough expansion that you could pull the stem through and have enough holding force to work, but this wouldn't be my favorite approach on something as active as a wheel.
I'll likely either direct tap, or use a stainless nitronic heli-coil like this and install them with a coating of Ultra Tef-Gel, which is an anti-corrosive lubricant to help isolate the aluminum and stainless - and then use an M6x1.0 screw to install the clips. I believe the the heli-coil approach will be the stongest, but the main reason for me to consider it is speed to install. Aluminum is "sticky", and I'm constantly concerned about snapping an M6 bit when installing the threads directly into the wheel, and moving up to an M8 feels too large,
All of this is theroretical, and I need to look at all of this when I actually start the work to see what the final approach will be.
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #228
Next up for repair is the transmission tunnel. We actually purchased a fiberglass version, but decided that we wanted to keep the stock steel tunnel. I should put it up for sale, but reach out if any of you need one.
Like the rear sill, at first look, the tunnel seemed a little daunting, especially making the small lip along the outer edge of the tunnel. But in the end, we fell back to a mostly hand tools, and it came out fairly well.
Here is the tunnel, heavily rusted - and odd, as 40 rust can be, the driver's side is rusted and decayed badly, while the passenger side is pretty much like new, aligning with the condition of the driver's and passenger floors. So here are two pics of the driver's side of the tunnel, starting to mock up the first patch.
Here is the first patch - the patches will need to be in segments that correspond to the side profile of the tunnel, and in the end four patches will be needed to repair the driver's side.
The radius on the lower tunnel lip is sweeping, and not something that would be well-suited to either the manual bender or the press brake. So we use a piece of tape, not shown, to measure the length of this radius. We then placed it on the patch to mark with the start and end of the radius. We then used the vice and a mallet and started bending the top lip, and then the bottom.
Next, we made a line where the outer small rolled lip should be.
Then, we pressed a 90 degree bend in at this line with the brake press. The shadows and overall perspective below make it look as if we are bending quite close to the center sweeping radius, but this is not the case - we are actually bending on the lower line shown above.
Next, we put it back in the vice for a little more mallet love. Notice that we keep the vice jaws about an 1/8 of an inch below the 90.
The stainless immediately adjacent to the 90 is stronger than the flat portion of the lower leg, and stronger than the outer ~1/4" lip. And with this, we were able to use a mallet while clamped in the vice, and then on the flat steel table (sorry, again, no pics) to work this lower leg into something that looks very close to the original tunnel lower lip. We have a die roller, but this is 16 gauge and it is just too strong for it.
And here is the result.
Like the rear sill, at first look, the tunnel seemed a little daunting, especially making the small lip along the outer edge of the tunnel. But in the end, we fell back to a mostly hand tools, and it came out fairly well.
Here is the tunnel, heavily rusted - and odd, as 40 rust can be, the driver's side is rusted and decayed badly, while the passenger side is pretty much like new, aligning with the condition of the driver's and passenger floors. So here are two pics of the driver's side of the tunnel, starting to mock up the first patch.
Here is the first patch - the patches will need to be in segments that correspond to the side profile of the tunnel, and in the end four patches will be needed to repair the driver's side.
The radius on the lower tunnel lip is sweeping, and not something that would be well-suited to either the manual bender or the press brake. So we use a piece of tape, not shown, to measure the length of this radius. We then placed it on the patch to mark with the start and end of the radius. We then used the vice and a mallet and started bending the top lip, and then the bottom.
Next, we made a line where the outer small rolled lip should be.
Then, we pressed a 90 degree bend in at this line with the brake press. The shadows and overall perspective below make it look as if we are bending quite close to the center sweeping radius, but this is not the case - we are actually bending on the lower line shown above.
Next, we put it back in the vice for a little more mallet love. Notice that we keep the vice jaws about an 1/8 of an inch below the 90.
The stainless immediately adjacent to the 90 is stronger than the flat portion of the lower leg, and stronger than the outer ~1/4" lip. And with this, we were able to use a mallet while clamped in the vice, and then on the flat steel table (sorry, again, no pics) to work this lower leg into something that looks very close to the original tunnel lower lip. We have a die roller, but this is 16 gauge and it is just too strong for it.
And here is the result.
Last edited:
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #229
Still progressing the tunnel, here are the repairs / patches to complete the driver's side.
The next pic is vertical, which is a little confusing.
The original steel on this last patch isn't that bad, especially out at the lip, which is good because the above process wouldn't have worked well for this, due to the curve, so we built a patch that we could butt weld in on four sides, keeping the original outer lip.
And one pic from the bottom showing the penetration was fairly good.
The next pic is vertical, which is a little confusing.
The original steel on this last patch isn't that bad, especially out at the lip, which is good because the above process wouldn't have worked well for this, due to the curve, so we built a patch that we could butt weld in on four sides, keeping the original outer lip.
And one pic from the bottom showing the penetration was fairly good.
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #230
Hello again everyone. Apologies for the long delay to anyone that might have wondered what happened. I've been extremely busy with my day job and although the project is not entirely complete, most of the heavy lifting is behind me, so I thought come and make another post.
Up next, we will tackle installing a new to the truck set of front seats. The seats that came in the 40, I believe, were from a BMW. And truly, no offense to anyone, but the install left a little to be desired, with the passenger seat sitting roughly 4 inches higher than the driver's seat - we called it the passenger throne. The welds were also scary, and they really needed to be replaced.
The new seat are from a 90ish Toyota Camry if memory serves. I have had these for a long time. They are great seats with a good deal of manual adjustments and a very durable fabric. These seat are also on the large side, with a relatively long lower leg support, lumbar control, and the driver's seat bottom cushion can be raised and lowered in both the front and rear, which is fantastic for long drives.
The installation was tedious and I won't bother trying to post that much of the fab work because much of the work is specific to this install and consists of small alignment work, drilling holes, hybridizing the original FJ40 sliders to the Camry seat rails, etc. That said, if I gloss over something that you want additional information about, just ask.
Below is a pic to show one of the only pics that I have of the original seats, showing you the height offset between the two seats.
And not to preach, but if you are new to fabricating, take your time and be certain that your design and final work, including welds, are adequate for installing such important components, with respect to safety. Below are several shots of the seat supports, and as you will see, very heavy metal was used, but the welds are on the dangerous side. And for the record, I / we have had plenty of poor welds, for all of the reasons that a weld might be poor, but we also try to recognize marginal design and poor welds, and if needed cut thing apart and start again - and if needed get help.
Here is the original passenger side support.
Below, you can see the light coming through were the added 1/4 inch flat stock was welded to the original left seat support (as seen above), with only one marginal weld along the front.
The weld below is the rear left support from the first pic above. It had no weld on the inside, there are no bevels to help with penetration, the heat was too low, and the aim of the weld was off - so a weak weld, not something you want supporting your seat and life. And I should have better inspected these when we brought the truck home and corrected these before doing anything else.
Next, we installed a pair of OEM seats to be certain that we have all of the original supports, and that all of the holes were where they need to be, etc.
From this work, and from analyzing the Camry seats, and the available parts stash, we started to disassemble a pair of 40 seat rails that we had that were no longer attached to any seats.
Up next, we will tackle installing a new to the truck set of front seats. The seats that came in the 40, I believe, were from a BMW. And truly, no offense to anyone, but the install left a little to be desired, with the passenger seat sitting roughly 4 inches higher than the driver's seat - we called it the passenger throne. The welds were also scary, and they really needed to be replaced.
The new seat are from a 90ish Toyota Camry if memory serves. I have had these for a long time. They are great seats with a good deal of manual adjustments and a very durable fabric. These seat are also on the large side, with a relatively long lower leg support, lumbar control, and the driver's seat bottom cushion can be raised and lowered in both the front and rear, which is fantastic for long drives.
The installation was tedious and I won't bother trying to post that much of the fab work because much of the work is specific to this install and consists of small alignment work, drilling holes, hybridizing the original FJ40 sliders to the Camry seat rails, etc. That said, if I gloss over something that you want additional information about, just ask.
Below is a pic to show one of the only pics that I have of the original seats, showing you the height offset between the two seats.
And not to preach, but if you are new to fabricating, take your time and be certain that your design and final work, including welds, are adequate for installing such important components, with respect to safety. Below are several shots of the seat supports, and as you will see, very heavy metal was used, but the welds are on the dangerous side. And for the record, I / we have had plenty of poor welds, for all of the reasons that a weld might be poor, but we also try to recognize marginal design and poor welds, and if needed cut thing apart and start again - and if needed get help.
Here is the original passenger side support.
Below, you can see the light coming through were the added 1/4 inch flat stock was welded to the original left seat support (as seen above), with only one marginal weld along the front.
Next, we installed a pair of OEM seats to be certain that we have all of the original supports, and that all of the holes were where they need to be, etc.
From this work, and from analyzing the Camry seats, and the available parts stash, we started to disassemble a pair of 40 seat rails that we had that were no longer attached to any seats.
Last edited:
Love the build, did you come up with anything with the clips on the wheels? This is something many seem to want to acheive, taller/wider with factory oem hubcaps (vintage acorns in my case). Thanks for the thread!
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #232
Thanks rlong and you are very welcome - it has been a good time, with a lot of good exchange, so thanks for joining.
Regarding the hubcaps and wheels, just to be sure I understand you, did you see that I had installed the factory 40 hub caps directly to the Fifteen52 wheels (two of them anyway), with two countersunk stainless screws. And then there were suggestions to go with clips, which I have purchased, but I have not progressed anything on this build in too long now.
I keep thinking which way go to and still I'm a little biased toward the current two-screw install - it's less work (two tapped holes vs five) and people don't seem to see the screws, at least not that they have commented about - and the 40 was in several shows last year. I realize that this is not a show truck, but just having a running 40 back east is pretty much show worthy. Either way, I love the 40 hub caps and they fit cleanly on the Fifteen52s, and I really like the 238/85R16s ATs on them. I'll post about them again, once I either make up my mind or actually do the work.
Regarding the hubcaps and wheels, just to be sure I understand you, did you see that I had installed the factory 40 hub caps directly to the Fifteen52 wheels (two of them anyway), with two countersunk stainless screws. And then there were suggestions to go with clips, which I have purchased, but I have not progressed anything on this build in too long now.
I keep thinking which way go to and still I'm a little biased toward the current two-screw install - it's less work (two tapped holes vs five) and people don't seem to see the screws, at least not that they have commented about - and the 40 was in several shows last year. I realize that this is not a show truck, but just having a running 40 back east is pretty much show worthy. Either way, I love the 40 hub caps and they fit cleanly on the Fifteen52s, and I really like the 238/85R16s ATs on them. I'll post about them again, once I either make up my mind or actually do the work.
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #233
The Camry rails are of course different than the 40 rails, but the 40 rails make a great baseline to attach to the existing 40 mounts (obviously), so we trimmed the inside of the 40 rail removing the teeth/inner lip, made several mods to the Camry rails and were able to mate the old and new together allowing us to use the Camry slides, with the 40 mounts, while keeping the height appropriately low.
The next pic shows the original 40 lower seat rail being cut to open space for the Camry seat teeth. We were careful to keep the bend on the original rail, to keep as much strength as possible.
Then we cleaned up the feet on the Camry seat so they fit nicely inside the 40 lower rails.
Resulting in what you see below, a nice tight, low fit.
Here is a shot from the rear - still a good bit of fab work needed and the piece of angle beneath the driver's seat is used to hold the seat at the proper height for now. The distance between the two seat rails is different from original.
And below measuring and checking height and squareness with a large ruler and square (not shown).
And here is what the passenger outside rail and mounts look like when very close to complete.
The next pic shows the original 40 lower seat rail being cut to open space for the Camry seat teeth. We were careful to keep the bend on the original rail, to keep as much strength as possible.
Then we cleaned up the feet on the Camry seat so they fit nicely inside the 40 lower rails.
Resulting in what you see below, a nice tight, low fit.
Here is a shot from the rear - still a good bit of fab work needed and the piece of angle beneath the driver's seat is used to hold the seat at the proper height for now. The distance between the two seat rails is different from original.
And below measuring and checking height and squareness with a large ruler and square (not shown).
And here is what the passenger outside rail and mounts look like when very close to complete.
Compared to the earlier photo showing the big difference between the seat height, you got a really level and equal height fit. Very cool job, but then…all of your work has been stellar
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #235
Thanks very much knuckle47. Like the rest of the build, it was fun and challenging at the same time - at this point of the build, I was working almost entirely by myself and without exaggeration, these seats were lifted into the truck and back out well over a dozen times each - but my back mostly held up - thankfully. And although there are several things that could be improved upon, we are very happy with the new (to the 40) seats, their comfort, and the safety of the install.
Last edited:
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #236
After completing most of the seat-related mods, we decided that the carbon steel seat support feet needed to be replaced with stainless - what a surprise. As you can see, the steel was in good shape, but in case the floor ever gets wet, I don't want the feet to become an issue. It turns out, we had a piece of stainless laying around that almost the correct size. It was a tiny bit too wide and a little thicker than needed, but it saved me from cutting anything so we used it. I believe it is 12 gauge.
We still have not replaced the small foot on the support that runs from the passenger side across the trans hump to the driver's floor, but we'll get to it.
We still have not replaced the small foot on the support that runs from the passenger side across the trans hump to the driver's floor, but we'll get to it.
My seat seemed to be a little leaned back. I cut a 1 1/2” square tube, 11ga and a 2” longer bolt for the rear feet…it was perfect. I think your stainless addition is great.
What are you using to join the stainless to the stock base?
What are you using to join the stainless to the stock base?
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #238
Yep, those minor adjustments can really make a big difference. And regarding joining the stainless to the carbon steel bracket, still using the .030 309LSi wire on the MIG, with Tri-Mix gas. Or, if you mean joining to seat bracket to the floor, we used M8 or M10 stainless bolts, likely 18-8, but not certain.
No you’re right with the first answer. I don’t have tri-mix gas on my mig. It’s a Millermatic 211 and I have only 1 big full bottle filled with argon currently, it won’t be getting changed too quickly. My welding days have minimized in the last 2 years.. my biggest project was welding the sensor bung for the fuel injection system into my exhaust pipe… probably less than 3” of material
psmbfuer
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #240
3 inches in 2 years - your 211 must be lonely - I'm happy to be its new friend if you want to sell it. I've been wanting to try an inverter machine for a while, to experience the start up first hand, to see if it is that much cleaner, as an example.
And are you certain you are running 100% argon on your MIG on carbon steel? I would have thought a more standard gas, if you only have one bottle, and if you are generally MIG welding on Cruisers/carbon steel, might have been 75/25 Argon/CO2. I have pure Argon bottles as well, but I use them on the TIG and to my understanding pure argon on MIG was only for non-ferrous metals like aluminum, magnesium, and copper.
And are you certain you are running 100% argon on your MIG on carbon steel? I would have thought a more standard gas, if you only have one bottle, and if you are generally MIG welding on Cruisers/carbon steel, might have been 75/25 Argon/CO2. I have pure Argon bottles as well, but I use them on the TIG and to my understanding pure argon on MIG was only for non-ferrous metals like aluminum, magnesium, and copper.
