Can you orient them so you can unbolt and then move the bar either forward or rearward to remove it?
1953 Dodge M37 wheeler conversion
- Thread starter workingdog
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workingdog
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- #122
So, PS reservoir is mounted. I have to tell you. The plasma table has saved me hours and hours this week.
workingdog
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- #123
Okay, I am an idiot. Why does it seem I'm constantly admitting that? I was thinking of how the tube comes on and off the disconnect, but ... as soon as I got in the shower and thought about it, I knew that couldn't be true, it would be useless. So, it's going to work fine as is. Of course, they slide to the side.
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I was going to say wait a minute i just did this exact thing and i had no issues. 
. But you figured it out
. But you figured it out
workingdog
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- #125
Okay, working on locating the radiator so I can get a final size and get it ordered. Which means getting the fenders on and in the right place - since there's nothing left to locate them anymore, I was floundering until I found the picture I took with dimensions - thank god. And that showed me that where I thought it needed to go, where it looked good was 3" back from where it should be. It's so flexible, just a giant curved piece of sheet metal, it doesn't 'know' where it wants to live.
Originally, which I had to take the massive front cross member out for the front axle and steering, I put a temporary cross member in place just to hold the frame together, and it is right where the U needs to go. The two bolts in the bottom of the U that bolted to the lower cross member should be at the right edge of the temp cross member. So, it has to move.
So, the question is, what do replace it with. This is an important cross member. It holds the entire front of the truck together and in place. the next cross member is for the transmission. So, I need something substaintial.
Options are, move this 3x3 piece of box tube. forward on the frame about 4" (figuring out how to temporarily brace the frame). Get a bigger, beefer 4x3 box tube and put it about 4" forward. Or modify this stock cross member by cutting it down and bolt it in. The advantage of the stock is it's low profile. My concern is would twist a little under load. thoughts?
If I got with box tube as the most structurally rigid option, is the 3x3 enough? Or is it worth it to go to 4x4. My only concern is I have no idea what might want to live there (like electric motor for winch) in the future. Real chicken and egg problem.
I could put some 3" round tube forward now, get it all built, and then go back and do the cross member when I know the topography better
Originally, which I had to take the massive front cross member out for the front axle and steering, I put a temporary cross member in place just to hold the frame together, and it is right where the U needs to go. The two bolts in the bottom of the U that bolted to the lower cross member should be at the right edge of the temp cross member. So, it has to move.
So, the question is, what do replace it with. This is an important cross member. It holds the entire front of the truck together and in place. the next cross member is for the transmission. So, I need something substaintial.
Options are, move this 3x3 piece of box tube. forward on the frame about 4" (figuring out how to temporarily brace the frame). Get a bigger, beefer 4x3 box tube and put it about 4" forward. Or modify this stock cross member by cutting it down and bolt it in. The advantage of the stock is it's low profile. My concern is would twist a little under load. thoughts?
If I got with box tube as the most structurally rigid option, is the 3x3 enough? Or is it worth it to go to 4x4. My only concern is I have no idea what might want to live there (like electric motor for winch) in the future. Real chicken and egg problem.
I could put some 3" round tube forward now, get it all built, and then go back and do the cross member when I know the topography better
When I kinda did what you're doing with an M37 I left the entire clip attached to the cab and it went up and down with the cab sitting on the 2 post lift arms. I don't do bodywork stuff so I guess I have that luxury to just leave it alone.
I thought that front single rubber body mount was the cheeziest thing. If I didn't have to use it I'd have chucked all that garbage and mounted the body like a normal vehicle.
As far as a crossmember goes it needs to match the rest of your frame's design. Is your frame bendy loosey goosey? Then you shouldn't make any one part of it super rigid- It will crack right where you do that. Is your frame super stiff with crossmembers all over and a cage tied into it? Then keep that trend and build it stout.
When I reconfigure a frame I put crossmembers where the frame will be acted upon- Where links and springs connect. Where the body and powertrain is being supported.
How you size and construct your crossmembers has to do with the rules of good weld joint design. The material thickness of your crossmember should be the same/similar as what you're attaching it to. If it needs to flex, don't make it super beefy.
I thought that front single rubber body mount was the cheeziest thing. If I didn't have to use it I'd have chucked all that garbage and mounted the body like a normal vehicle.
As far as a crossmember goes it needs to match the rest of your frame's design. Is your frame bendy loosey goosey? Then you shouldn't make any one part of it super rigid- It will crack right where you do that. Is your frame super stiff with crossmembers all over and a cage tied into it? Then keep that trend and build it stout.
When I reconfigure a frame I put crossmembers where the frame will be acted upon- Where links and springs connect. Where the body and powertrain is being supported.
How you size and construct your crossmembers has to do with the rules of good weld joint design. The material thickness of your crossmember should be the same/similar as what you're attaching it to. If it needs to flex, don't make it super beefy.
workingdog
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- #127
the frame is boxed from more or less the radiator back to the rear ORI hoops. So that's stiffened it up. there's a cross member at the trans, after the rear output of the transfer case, and the very rear of the frame. A lot fewer than there were originally. I'd always assumed once I knew what was where, I'd have to go back and put more support in. There's nothing around the motor mounts or front ORI mounts because there's no real estate to work with. the upper links are right up into the frame at full stuff.
So, this is going to handle all the frame torque from the trans mount to the front of the frame. Right now, I'd say it's pretty loose, as even though the frame is boxed, there's not a lot tying the two sides together. the trans mount is holding the trans and keeping the frame the right distance apart, but it's not doing a lot to make the frame more rigid.
So, this is going to handle all the frame torque from the trans mount to the front of the frame. Right now, I'd say it's pretty loose, as even though the frame is boxed, there's not a lot tying the two sides together. the trans mount is holding the trans and keeping the frame the right distance apart, but it's not doing a lot to make the frame more rigid.
workingdog
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- #128
Okay, the fenders are back on and I've gotten them in the right place - finally. After some searching I finally found the right radiator from champion (easier to find on ebay than on the champion site). they say it will come Aug 2, which is quite a wait. But ... this was one of the last steps that I wasn't sure about. Now that I know it all works, I can plow ahead with hydraulic plumbing, brake hoses, clutch hoses, drill the knuckles out to 3/4's of an inch, figure out to get a steering wheel on. And I think I'll be able to start it and pull it out of the garage.
workingdog
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- #129
So, was working on they hydraulic lines and had to pick the rig up and it went from this - at full stuff, all weight on the ORIs and hoops. See how the cross bar is in the right place.
To this as soon as the ORIs were unloaded and the weight was back on the frame.
Broke the tack that was holding it.
To this when all the way up and the weight of the axle is hanging from the ORIs and the hoops. It's a little more out of whack.
I'm guess that I should break the center join of the cross bar, which is only tacked, and reset it so when the load is neutral on the hoops.
I just thought it was an interesting example of how much movement there is in a frame - even when the rig is sitting stil.
To this as soon as the ORIs were unloaded and the weight was back on the frame.
Broke the tack that was holding it.
To this when all the way up and the weight of the axle is hanging from the ORIs and the hoops. It's a little more out of whack.
I'm guess that I should break the center join of the cross bar, which is only tacked, and reset it so when the load is neutral on the hoops.
I just thought it was an interesting example of how much movement there is in a frame - even when the rig is sitting stil.
workingdog
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- #130
PSC full hydro plumbing. It took 2 calls to PSC to get this right. Here's how it's supposed to look (and I didn't find any examples on Google that were right.
This is the full hydro kit with remove reservoir and upgraded to AN -8
So, the big connectors - the AN -8 - are for the supply and the return. You get two high pressure AN -8 90 hose connectors, one for the orbital (upper left) and one for the PS pump. And 3 lower pressure AN -8. one for the orbital, upper right, and two for the cooler.
The small AN-6 connectors are for the lines going to and from the orbital and ram. They go on the bottom or driver's two ports on the orbital and each end of the RAM.
Orbital. Top right is return - so it's low pressure AN -8
Fortunately, these sit right between the oil pan and the harmonic balancer.
the reservoir get the AN -12 connector for which there is also one on the top of the pump with 3/4 hose. For me, the straight and the 90 they sent won't work. I have two AN -12-3/4 barbed fittings coming for that. The other connector on the reservoir is AN -8 low pressure that takes the return from the cooler.
This is the full hydro kit with remove reservoir and upgraded to AN -8
So, the big connectors - the AN -8 - are for the supply and the return. You get two high pressure AN -8 90 hose connectors, one for the orbital (upper left) and one for the PS pump. And 3 lower pressure AN -8. one for the orbital, upper right, and two for the cooler.
The small AN-6 connectors are for the lines going to and from the orbital and ram. They go on the bottom or driver's two ports on the orbital and each end of the RAM.
Orbital. Top right is return - so it's low pressure AN -8
Fortunately, these sit right between the oil pan and the harmonic balancer.
the reservoir get the AN -12 connector for which there is also one on the top of the pump with 3/4 hose. For me, the straight and the 90 they sent won't work. I have two AN -12-3/4 barbed fittings coming for that. The other connector on the reservoir is AN -8 low pressure that takes the return from the cooler.
workingdog
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- #131
I've actually been busting my hump on this the last week. I had to deal with every thing that I had left undone during the project that has to be finished before I can drive out of the garage - a lot of sh*t had to get welded, lock nuts tightened, tie rods finished - correctly, brake lines finalized and bled, clutch connected and bled, steering column finished with steering wheel disconnect (we gave up on the stock wheel as too complicated), fix the oil pressure sensor leak, etc., etc., etc.. What I thought was one day's work turned out to be 5 days.
But, with it all back together, it fired up today (after wrestling a bad pin in a Holley connector - again). The clutch seems to work, but I'll get it in the air and check before I attempt to roll it out. I've bled the brakes twice now and there's still no pedal. Lots of air still in the rear lines. But I'm hoping there's enough brakes to stop me at 2 mph.
So, time to secure all the wiring enough to roll 20' feet out into the driveway and then back into the garage. And I have to secure the column in the oversized U that's there. And it suddenly occurs to me I can just take it out, cut it down, weld it up, and put it back in - wallah! It makes too much noise to attempt to drive it around the block. As soon as I'm comfortable that it can move 20' without much trouble, I'll put it on the trailer and take it down and get an exhaust made for it including new headers and O2 bung installed so I can get the O2 sensor installed and connected to the Holley.
Then, once I have it back, I can put the the front clip back on and start to work on the cooling. I don't want to put the front clip back on until the exhaust is done so the exhaust guy doesn't have to work around the fenders. And like a 40, the radiator support is attached to the front clip.
Once I have the radiator in (it's sitting in a box) with no fan, I can start taking test runs around the neighborhood and see what's wrong. That's always a sobering couple of days as reality sets in.
But, with it all back together, it fired up today (after wrestling a bad pin in a Holley connector - again). The clutch seems to work, but I'll get it in the air and check before I attempt to roll it out. I've bled the brakes twice now and there's still no pedal. Lots of air still in the rear lines. But I'm hoping there's enough brakes to stop me at 2 mph.
So, time to secure all the wiring enough to roll 20' feet out into the driveway and then back into the garage. And I have to secure the column in the oversized U that's there. And it suddenly occurs to me I can just take it out, cut it down, weld it up, and put it back in - wallah! It makes too much noise to attempt to drive it around the block. As soon as I'm comfortable that it can move 20' without much trouble, I'll put it on the trailer and take it down and get an exhaust made for it including new headers and O2 bung installed so I can get the O2 sensor installed and connected to the Holley.
Then, once I have it back, I can put the the front clip back on and start to work on the cooling. I don't want to put the front clip back on until the exhaust is done so the exhaust guy doesn't have to work around the fenders. And like a 40, the radiator support is attached to the front clip.
Once I have the radiator in (it's sitting in a box) with no fan, I can start taking test runs around the neighborhood and see what's wrong. That's always a sobering couple of days as reality sets in.
That's it?? So basically your almost done. 
workingdog
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- #133
Yup, all done. Except for ... cooling - with fancy PWM fan which I don't have, winch (which is a challenge) ... roll cage - connected to the frame, with top, skid plates, transfer case shifters (another challenge - and there's 3 of them), e-brake (another PITA), and lights front and rear with their wiring harness - which are also going to be a challenge, getting the bed back on (another PITA because the hoops and ORIs are in the way), . And that's without thinking about the cab, and the rust, and the paint, and the windows and door handles, and all the gauges and switches in the cab, and the seats that have rotted through to the rusty springs ...
Okay, I give up. It's too much. I'm going to get a real job. It's less work.
Okay, I give up. It's too much. I'm going to get a real job. It's less work.
workingdog
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- #135
Only if you promise to drag my ass out when it all goes bad.
workingdog
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- #136
Okay, the big news is it pulled out of the garage and back in. Video blow. Clutch worked. Brakes worked a little. Steering works (more on that). and the brake is definitely too close to the accelerator.
However, in preparation for this momentous event, I was cycling the steering, turned the (new) wheel gently to passenger, and when it it the stop I heard 'pop pop pop'. I turned off the motor and jumped out and I'd broken the very pathetic tack welds holding the PSC ram mount to the axle. From there it got worse as the tires turn inwards on their own to about 45 degrees and the truck started to roll backyards with the door catching on the lift post. It was a scramble just to get the ram disconnected and tires splayed out (instead of in) before I could even get to the point of removing so I could reinstall and weld the mount to the axle - and then put it all back together.
Also, attempted to fill the ORI's with nitrogen, but can't screw the filler set up onto my bottle. They are assuming a much smaller bottle. So ... down to the welding supply for a fitting. And ... I think I'll load it up on the trailer and go by the exhaust shop on the way, because I'm really stuck until I get new headers.
However, in preparation for this momentous event, I was cycling the steering, turned the (new) wheel gently to passenger, and when it it the stop I heard 'pop pop pop'. I turned off the motor and jumped out and I'd broken the very pathetic tack welds holding the PSC ram mount to the axle. From there it got worse as the tires turn inwards on their own to about 45 degrees and the truck started to roll backyards with the door catching on the lift post. It was a scramble just to get the ram disconnected and tires splayed out (instead of in) before I could even get to the point of removing so I could reinstall and weld the mount to the axle - and then put it all back together.
Also, attempted to fill the ORI's with nitrogen, but can't screw the filler set up onto my bottle. They are assuming a much smaller bottle. So ... down to the welding supply for a fitting. And ... I think I'll load it up on the trailer and go by the exhaust shop on the way, because I'm really stuck until I get new headers.
You mean I’m not the only one…
workingdog
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- #139
So, while I'm waiting to figure out the headers, or for the headers to figure themselves out, I decided to work on the cab and getting it back together. And ... the transmission hump is going to require more than a little massaging. the transmission is much wider and a little higher than the original and a couple of inches to the passenger side. and the second shift platform, which I'd hope would be perfect for the Atlas shifters has to go 2" to the right as well - and it has to accommodate 3 shifters.
So ... I'm trying to decided if this can be modified - and they would be major modifications, or if I just build something from scratch. Either way, this is a several day project. It's hard to tell, but at the rear, the hump is about 2" off the floor.
So ... I'm trying to decided if this can be modified - and they would be major modifications, or if I just build something from scratch. Either way, this is a several day project. It's hard to tell, but at the rear, the hump is about 2" off the floor.
Didn't it have 3 shifters plus an E-brake lever before?
The one I did I used an NV4500/NP205 with twin sticks and installed the NP200 e-brake on a 1410 yoke on the 205 and retained all the original shifters with rod end linkage.
The one I did I used an NV4500/NP205 with twin sticks and installed the NP200 e-brake on a 1410 yoke on the 205 and retained all the original shifters with rod end linkage.