100 slid on the way back from skiing (1 Viewer)

[stonekutters]

About two weeks ago I was driving back from a ski trip and the 100 slid for 4-6ft. Quite scary but thankfully was able to recover.

Location:

• Dodge Ridge Ski Resort by Pinecrest, CA

The conditions were as follows:

• Low 30s
• Been snowing most of the afternoon, ~4in at most
• Downhill one way road
• Car in front of me and back of me
• Tires are ~2 yr old about 15K miles on them, 33" KO2's
• Diff fluids changed ~3yrs ago, barely driven ~25K miles since
• Driving in D
• Part of the road were icy
• Speed < 15-20mph
• Effort made to drive in the tracks of the car in front
• Neither the front car or the one behind me slid (my buddy was driving behind me in a X5 with All Season tires)

Questions:

• Given KO2's, low speed, 4WD is it still possible for the 100 to slide?
• Do I need to get the 4WD checked out?
• Something else?

I'm sure I can improve as a driver, don't always drive in such conditions. Happy to learn from your feedback. Thanks!

 

[knewstance]

With slick roads, any vehicle is able to slide. Unless you have other symptoms I'd say any inspection is unnecessary.

A few things... You'll get better traction I'd you are making your own tracks, not driving in someone else's. When driving in the snow at such slow speeds, you definitely needed to be in 1st or 2nd gear.
I assume you were braking and that is what caused the sliding. Big no-no with snow driving. You want to use the engine to slow your wheel speed down as much as possible and only use your brakes at the end of the stopping process. Brakes will just lock up the tires at higher (>5mph) speeds and you will just start to slide.
In summary, 4wd makes you go on slick roads when other vehicles could not, but when it comes to stopping, (generally) all vehicles are equal.

 

[Ayune]

Yea, I’d say being in D was inappropriate for those conditions going downhill. Glad no sheet metal was bent during this experiment.

 

[ClassyJalopy]

What year is your 100? Pre 2000 models didn't have traction control. My 1998 is skid prone in icy conditions all the time and I know it is not user error because I have been driving in WI winters for 15 years.
For comparison my 2012 sienna FWD on all seasons is much more capable of correcting itself both at low and highway speeds.
And my 06 BMW 530xi with snow tires is actually pretty hard to unsettle in most conditions.

Having said all that, using the lowest gear you can on descents and using only light breaking when necessary is the way to go. Also, if you start sliding let go of the brakes and use just your steering to correct the slide, because you need rolling tires to gain the traction and directional control back!

 

[bigredmachine]

so you skidded I snowy icy conditions, sounds normal to me. driving in packed snow will make it easier to slide and skid, if your doing a lot of driving in snow you could get a set of winter tires as they'll help in those conditions.

 

[blatant]

If it's icy, you'll slide. If it's snowy...then you'll most likely slide. Also BFG's are not best snow tire. 4wd/awd provides false confidence. Experience is best.

 

[nukegoat]

Tires

 

[SmoothLC]

Love the CDL! Next time, take it out in snowy conditions and test it out until you get the hang of it. Works great IMO.

 

[SierraWheeler]

You will get a lot of opinions but I think most if not all will agree that what you described is a good learning experience and not something wrong with your vehicle.

I have three words of advice. Practice, practice, practice! The more time you spend playing around with different settings and practicing in snow/ice the more confidence and understanding you'll have with your driving and equipment in different conditions.

Good news is that your tires/drive line are fine. Snow/ice is unpredictable and all vehicles can lose traction so just because your buddy in the X5 had a different experience doesn't mean that he was doing something better than you were. Although I am sure your buddy is giving you a hard time about the fact that he didn't slide and telling you that you need to sell your Land Cruiser and buy a BMW or some nonsense like that. Don't give in!

Use of brakes, engine braking, and drive line settings can all affect your traction when you are trying to slow down. Sounds like the CDL was off so you were in all wheel drive and not 4wd. Going downhill using brakes, it was probably one or both of your front tires that locked up and caused the slide. Going into 4wd by turning on the CDL may have prevented a lockup by forcing your front tires to keep spinning. Engine braking instead of regular brakes could have also helped in that situation to prevent your wheels from locking up.

Once you've already lost traction, that's where automatic traction aids like stability control kick in. If it was just a little slick patch, it's possible that your buddy in the X5 could have lost traction in the exact same way you did, but the probably got away with it with the quick intervention of an automatic traction aid like stability control. That doesn't make him a better driver, nor does it mean that he has better traction than you do, just that his machine was able to recover itself automatically.

But it is always better to be in control and not lose traction in the first place instead of having some fancy program that may or not save your butt when you get into trouble. Obviously having the best of both worlds is nice too.

What year is your Land Cruiser? As @ClassyJalopy mentioned, post 2000 models have stability control which could have helped if your CDL was off.

 

[BigBen97]

Tires are the biggest contributing factor here. I put Nokian R2’s on for the winter instead of the K02’s that we’re on it when I bought it. As expected, it was a big improvement for snow/ice traction.

 

[grinchy]

Agree that ko2s are only a moderate snow tire. Hard compound a few years old and this is the result.

 

[2001LC]

Hard rubber tires like the Ko2s last a long time. But they're not optimal for winter driving. Snow tires are a soft rubber, not suitable for warm weather as heat will wear them fast.

Down hill Engine braking is second nature to me. But under very ice condition any sudden change is not advisable. Just letting of the gas pedal, can through a vehicle into a spin. Add gas can have same effect. Do while turning is worst, but slide direction is more predicable. Best course of action is slow and steady, with very minor steering corrections. Plan ahead and stay focused.

@SierraWheeler said the most import thing here IMHO "Practice, practice, practice"

 

[uHu]

A good layer of wet snow like that is among the worst conditions for traction. What I always do on wet snow is to use the CDL. (Unless I'm doing some sharp corners in a restricted space, as sharp turns are hindered a bit by the CDL). The CDL controls the braking force much better than the ABS, giving you much better control of both braking and accelerating.
As said above here, the KO2 is a good tire, but not for wet snow or ice. The only thing that helps is a dedicated winter tire with soft rubber and lotsa fine sipes across the tread. (And of course studs for ice.) Tire rubber hardens with age, so a winter tire is pensioned off after 4 years from production.

 

[Riviera]

I too, encountered a scary slide situation over the winter and feel that I'm a fairly skilled driver in snow and ice. While traction control would be somewhat beneficial, isn't it really the anti-locks that didn't provide the desired result? I found myself trying to skid a slow speeds and trying to find thresholds and "feel". I'm running Kumho RoadVenture AT51 which isn't a true winter tire, but does carry the mountain snowflake. I had run Blizzaks on my Jeep Wrangler and have a set of Dunlop winter tires for our Patriot, but was hoping the mountain snowflake would keep me from having two sets of wheels and tires for the LX.

 

[SmoothLC]

I have to concur with what was posted above concerning the KO2s. While they carry the three-peak Mountain Snowflake symbol, I'd rate them as below average compared to other Snowflake tires.

When I purchased the vehicle it came with a second set of tires - stock size Blizzaks. While they wouldn't be my first choice of snow tires, they worked really well in mad snow storms. I remember traveling from southern California on I-15 in February one year. When we hit the climb up from St. George to Cedar City it was almost a white out. The Blizzaks performed great and gave a lot of confidence in terms of traction. Enough so that we just kept passing vehicles that didn't have the same level of traction.

 

[Ambledog]

Snow on top of ice is probably a big factor, might not have been anything you did at all.

I've driven fwd cars and rwd pickups in upstate NY, and SD, and snowy Southern Oregon. More than anything is careful driving because you can't always pick the rig or the weather so you want to master the slow and steady driving aspect. But after that, I'd say it was a tire mismatched to those conditions although almost any tire will slip a some point. I've used all season, true winter-only, studded, regular tires with chains, and each drives differently, but a K02 style wouldn't be my first choice on snow. Until I got the LC, my first 4wd, I was always going lots of places better equipped vehicles were avoiding or getting stuck in. I spent a lot to time driving to ski areas and lots of winter backcountry ski trips. Just a lot of years of experience, and having a good set up for the places I tended to go, and judgement of when to go slower, or not go at all, or at least carry chains in case things got really bad. I put them on a LOT of times! 4wd is great, but for many people it makes them overconfident.

 

[Riviera]

I've always been a big fan of the Goodyear Wrangler Duratracs because of the excellent siping. Lots of nice zigzag siping. When KO2s came out, I remember noting the lack of siping and thinking that there is no way they're as good as Duratracs. When we were lifting a lot of Jeeps at the dealership, many chose Duratracs and I've never heard someone say they didn't like the tire. I think I will go with Duratracas when these Kumhos wear out, but I have to say that the Kumhos have been excellent and are significantly cheaper than Duratracs.

 

[uHu]

Just for the record: The siping on those Duratracks is nothing like the siping on a dedicated winter tire, like this one:

 

[krice118]

Duratracs are notorious for getting cut sidewalks in 33”

 

[uHu]

Duratracs are notorious for getting cut sidewalks in 33”

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