Now, ya see, that's the problem. Taking the wrong line. I would have just drove to the right there a little bit and avoided the rock all together and used that several grand in fancy mods to pay for the gas.
100 series vs. 4runner drivetrain
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Now, ya see, that's the problem. Taking the wrong line. I would have just drove to the right there a little bit and avoided the rock all together and used that several grand in fancy mods to pay for the gas.
Sorry, coming in late to the discussion, but a few points...
All of these nebulous and unknown advancements in frame design, what are they? Hydro-forming???
You keep mentioning all the advancements in frame design, yet have not specified what those advancements are, nor quoted reliable sources as to their specific application to the 120 Series frame.As far as towing capacity, that is not always a viable measure in comparing frame strength. You'll notice that the same vehicle will sometimes have different tow ratings in different countries. Part of the reason is due to the manufacturer's tolerance for paperwork and liability in a particular locale. It is not necessarily the empirical maximum towing capacity of that vehicle. And it definately is not dependant on frame strength alone.
OK, so my G-Wagen is rated by Mercedes-Benz to tow 7000 pounds, just like the 4Runner. Yet, that frame was designed in the early-1970s! How did it achieve this stellar tow rating without all of the advancements in frame design and metallurgy to come over the next three decades???
Another counter to your hypothesis: certain variants of the 404 UNIMOG are rated to tow 7700 kg with a braked trailer. That's 17,000 pounds! The frame rails are just C-channel for 75% of their length. They are actually designed to be able to flex independantly of each other in order to aid axle articulation. I have witnessed frames rails out of parallel by as much as one foot when really being flexed out!!! Certainly nothing like the stout frames under discussion here. Yet, that truck can still tow 17,000 pounds with a wavy frame, four drum brakes, and a weak 110 hp engine turning only 137 foot pounds of torque!!! What gives? Do you have an explanation for this seemingly supernatural anomaly?
Brakes are a big factor in tow rating. That's probably one of the big reasons why the 4Runner is rated "higher" than the 100 in the States. Not because of stouter frame design.
What does cargo capacity have to do with the context of this discussion?
Since the 120 was introduced in 2002 in Japan, and was an evolution of the 90 Series which had been around since 1996, I think you might be off by a year or two...
Possibly. What's your point? I thought we were talking about the 100 and 120...?
For the record, I think the 120 is a fantastic platform. Test drove one (a GX470) extensively. But there are many reasons why I bought a 100 instead...
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Why do you keep coming back to frame strength and towing?
Uhh, yeah, according to some journalist using the US DOT method of classifying a vehicle (GVWR). And they even got that part wrong. Since both vehicles are under 10,000 pounds GVWR, they are both classified as "light duty" vehicles by DOT. Notice that the "medium-duty" part was not a quote from Kondo.
When we talk about heavy duty versus light duty, as someone else alluded to earlier, we are not talking about GVWR. We are talking about component strength, designed-in durability, longevity. If this is not self-evident to you after physical observation of both vehicles (i.e. crawl underneath both of them), then I guess there's no point in any further discussion...
Hybrid meaning several different uses not specifically made for 1 vehicle. The LC and LX are the same vehicle with 2 levels of trim. The 120 platform is made to serve several different vehicles both 2wd and 4wd. This is a cost savings method.
I already said the 4runner is faster so what are you talking about? The LC is smoother, quieter, and feels more planted or stable at speed. The 4runner feels lighter which is good for a sports car that you want to throw around but I like my trucks solid.
As for as towing, I have the v6 which still has plenty of power but isnt the v8. I have a trailer that I haul building supplies 150 miles to my camp and can tell you that I forget the trailer is back there with the LC. With the 4runner, I am always aware. The LC's mass seems to be less effected by the movements of the trailer. I also have to drop the 4runner's 5spd into 4th while I can leave the LC's 4 spd in OD. If I could change 1 thing about the LC, it would be to add the 5th gear which Toyota did later.
BTW, which one do you own or do you own either?
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Well, I'm really glad the way that this thread turned out. As a soon-to-be sophomore in college, I am very privileged to be driving a 07 v8 4R. I am sure it will give me years of reliable service on the road, and this is my ultimate plan as per someone else on this board.
My mom is on her second LC, she got a 99 drove it to work for 5 years, put 80k on the clock and dumped it. Got an 04 and drives it to work everyday, currently has 72k on the clock without one problem.
Although my mom doesn't care about what this car "can do" she loves it because of the safety and reliability that it has proven to her over the last 10 years. Her daily commute is 50 miles on a road with a lot of hills and a lot of trucks (route 78) Next summer she plans on getting a 200 and keeping that for 5 years. My plan is to take the 200 at the end of the 5 years. I will be out of college, have a job/apartment and I feel that it is a more appropriate time to have a LC over a 4R.
My only problem is if the 200 idea falls through with my mom and decides to get something like the GX. The buyout on her 04 LC after the lease is only 19k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel with some negotiation, I can trade my 07 4r for the 04 lc coming off lease with no money out of pocket. Doing the 90k expensive service would not deter me in one bit.
Back to the thread anyway:
we have concluded that the 4r is the best mid-class SUV that is plenty durable for some off road use
we have concluded that the LC is the toughest most over-engineered leather-lined tank ever forged and that it is used to rescue villagers by the UN in the toughest terrain on a daily basis
I just wish that Toyota would release more technical information to those consumers who are fascinated with the engineering that went into these beasts because lets face it, 90% of consumers are just like my mother where the most difficult terrain it sees in its life is the bump coming into the driveway.
I have a question regarding price differences over-seas. what is the difference between a stripped LC and a stripped 120 series without all the leather glam and stuff?
Keep this thread going!
My mom is on her second LC, she got a 99 drove it to work for 5 years, put 80k on the clock and dumped it. Got an 04 and drives it to work everyday, currently has 72k on the clock without one problem.
Although my mom doesn't care about what this car "can do" she loves it because of the safety and reliability that it has proven to her over the last 10 years. Her daily commute is 50 miles on a road with a lot of hills and a lot of trucks (route 78) Next summer she plans on getting a 200 and keeping that for 5 years. My plan is to take the 200 at the end of the 5 years. I will be out of college, have a job/apartment and I feel that it is a more appropriate time to have a LC over a 4R.
My only problem is if the 200 idea falls through with my mom and decides to get something like the GX. The buyout on her 04 LC after the lease is only 19k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel with some negotiation, I can trade my 07 4r for the 04 lc coming off lease with no money out of pocket. Doing the 90k expensive service would not deter me in one bit.
Back to the thread anyway:
we have concluded that the 4r is the best mid-class SUV that is plenty durable for some off road use
we have concluded that the LC is the toughest most over-engineered leather-lined tank ever forged and that it is used to rescue villagers by the UN in the toughest terrain on a daily basis
I just wish that Toyota would release more technical information to those consumers who are fascinated with the engineering that went into these beasts because lets face it, 90% of consumers are just like my mother where the most difficult terrain it sees in its life is the bump coming into the driveway.
I have a question regarding price differences over-seas. what is the difference between a stripped LC and a stripped 120 series without all the leather glam and stuff?
Keep this thread going!
Its hard to do a price comparison with what you guys pay in the states to where i am.
Firstly the duty structure here is a killer, i paid over 100% duty on the value of the lc
.
Secondly as there are not may suppliers of the cruiser, they already have a premium price.
All this talk about gas guzzlers, and how the lc's are loosing their value due to this.....well....i have not seen the value of the car reduce by even a $.
Firstly the duty structure here is a killer, i paid over 100% duty on the value of the lc
.Secondly as there are not may suppliers of the cruiser, they already have a premium price.
All this talk about gas guzzlers, and how the lc's are loosing their value due to this.....well....i have not seen the value of the car reduce by even a $.
I've owned a 2004 4rnner AWD sport with the Xreas suspension (xwife got that one) and a 2007 4runner limited AWD, both were V8's. Great vehicles and I would recommend the Xreas suspension on the 4runner makes it a different vehcile. I've also owned 3 - 100 series, a 98 LC and 2 - 2004 LX's (don't ask why). No comparison, different vehicles from the 4runner. Both are nice but the LX470 is 10 times nicer and higher quality vehicle. Comfort is on a different level, in the 4runner you sit close to the floor with your legs at a uncomfortable angle, not good for a long trip. This quote from Jim Chows post I believe illustrates the difference between a 100 series and the 4runner and if we had all the spec's on both vehicles you would see this theme running through both vehicles "The 4th gen 4runner's 5spd tranny has aluminum planetary gears vs. the LC's steel gears. The aluminum gears saved 200 lbs. No word on the long-term durability yet."
Firsttoy, "can't do that" and "dollar for dollar" are two different things. 
Guys, I think we lost him. Probably back arguing with the 200 series crew about another Cruiser he may or may not own.
Guys, I think we lost him. Probably back arguing with the 200 series crew about another Cruiser he may or may not own.
You guys seem to be brainwashed into the whole "bigger is stronger" thinking. I guaranetee a HMMWV's frame is stronger than a 100 series LC even though it isnt bigger. The whole 4runner is newer so its a stronger frame? Well my 62 unimog has a VERY strong VERY flexible frame. You dont need a HUGE boxed stiff frame in order to be reliable. The frame on Unimogs are desgined to flex ALOT and they are c-channel. ALong with all big rigs, any military truck from LMTV's to 2.5 ton to 5-ton trucks are all c-channel. HMMWV's do have a boxed frame but again its not stiff, it is flexible.
Firsttoy, "can't do that" and "dollar for dollar" are two different things.
Guys, I think we lost him. Probably back arguing with the 200 series crew about another Cruiser he may or may not own.
All practical debate sort of ended with nsingh85's reports of actual performance in the "real world" of Landcruiserdom
Boy am I glad I don't participate in these debates any longer. Some of the unsubstantiated opinions and comments are amazing. ("The LC is light duty from '98 design while the 4R is tougher due to recent intro")
Ya, well they just redesigned the Subaru Forrester too.
Ya, well they just redesigned the Subaru Forrester too.
Can L shocks be installed in a 4Runner?
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So they are not using the 100 series Land Cruiser with the IFS but instead they are actually using the 105 series with solid front which from what I have read is actually a 100 series body on top of a 80's series chassis. So it appears that you are pretty much confirming that the IFS of the 100 series is not as tough as it seems.
So the fact that the 105 series is being used for the rough stuff and the 120 series for management pretty much makes it look like 120 series can handle most situations...I am sure there are 100 series IFS used by the UN but it looks like they are not being used by management or anyone in the Kenya, Darfur region.
Comparing the 105 series to the 120 series is a little different than comparing the 100 series and 120 series.
For what its worth. The 100 series and 105 series Land Cruisers are no longer supplied by Toyota to the UN but the 70 series, 120 series and 200 series are now offered as well as the Hilux..
The fact that the 120 series uses the same engines, transmission and assembly lines, uses larger brakes has a higher tow capacity tells me that a 120 series Toyota is just as well built as any Toyota from the past.
As good as the 100 series was/is vehicle engineering has moved on to better things from when the 100 series was introduced.
Today you will find a 200 series with the same rear end as that of the Toyota Tundra 4.7 v8...you will find a 70 series diesel using the same 6 speed as the Toyota Tundra 5.7 V8...Toyota Hilux 2wd models with payloads of around 2900 pounds
To the poster that said the Land Cruiser in Sudan are actually solid front axles 105 series Land Cruiser goes to show you that the 100 series with IFS as the OP brought uo is not all that tough and over build after all as they are using 105 series and 120 series in the area.
Anyways..I have experience with both the 4.7 100 series Land Cruiser and the 120 chassis 4runner 4.7 with both 4.7 and 5 speed transmission but differnt rear end gearing.
Both are very good vehicle for what they are made for with the Land Cruiser having the edge in comfort as there is no doubt about that....but Toyota vehicle designs and engineering have come a long way since the 100 series was introduced to market in 1998 and there are much better alternatives to 100 series today.
I don't own a Land Cruiser and I don't own a 120 series vehicle either. I have a Toyota 4wd Tundra with 291,000km.
I promised. I'm keeping my keyboard "shut".
[/quote]I don't own a Land Cruiser and I don't own a 120 series vehicle either. I have a Toyota 4wd Tundra with 291,000km.[/quote]
Well then shut the #$@! up and stop pretending that you know what you are talking about because you are the only one that buys it. You have nothing to add to this conversation except for your misguided and uninformed opinion. You have no real world experience with either vehicle in question. The fact of the matter is that you are only a collection of quotes from magazines and internet articles that back some incorrect opinion. If you want add something to a discussion like this keep it confined to forums that you have personal knowledge of like the Tundra forum or the ill-informed idiot forum.
Well then shut the #$@! up and stop pretending that you know what you are talking about because you are the only one that buys it. You have nothing to add to this conversation except for your misguided and uninformed opinion. You have no real world experience with either vehicle in question. The fact of the matter is that you are only a collection of quotes from magazines and internet articles that back some incorrect opinion. If you want add something to a discussion like this keep it confined to forums that you have personal knowledge of like the Tundra forum or the ill-informed idiot forum.
I think that they appear to use the same but they don't. You might of missed this example "The 4th gen 4runner's 5spd tranny has aluminum planetary gears vs. the LC's steel gears. The aluminum gears saved 200 lbs. No word on the long-term durability yet." This is just one example and I am sure if you did a lot of research you would find many more examples. With Toyota you get what you pay for. A 4runner is a $30K vehicle, the Tundra is a $30K vehicle and the LC is a $60K vehicle, you can see the difference when you look at them and drive them and if you want to dig deeper you find out about light weight aluminum gears versus steel gears.