100 series vs. 4runner drivetrain

[Dandon]

To be fair to the OP. I am only comparing the v8 4runner to 100 series Land Cruiser (06-07 TEMS included. Not including LX in this discussion at all. But perhaps we should look at all platform models.



It has a lot to do with it. The 2003 4runner frame is engineered with everything that is known in 2003 compared to what what was engineered in 1998.

The M1 Abrams entered service in 980. The VW New Beetle in 1998. Obviously, this makes the VW much tougher.

The LC 100 is named / equipped very differently according to the country. Mi '99 euro spec 100 (not LX470) has the AHC and most of the LX470 equipment.

It is also rated for 3500 kg towing weight, which is 7800 lb.

 

[04UZJ100]

4Runner is 11.7".

And I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but looking around the net, I've found 3 places that spec towing of the 100 at 3500kg and the 120 at 2500kg.

Towing Comparison: LandCruiser v Prado v Patrol v Jackaroo v ML270 - Vehicle Tests - Overlander 4WD Magazine - Australia's leading four wheel drive magazine

No, the breaks are 13.3 on the Sport Edition 4r and the gx470

 

[Trunk Monkey]

No, the breaks are 13.3 on the Sport Edition 4r and the gx470

Yep, I was looking at 96-00 info. And it's brakes.

 

[pagemaster]

and you wouldnt claim your newest product, that your're now selling is your best/strongest thing you've made to date? quote]

Of course. And as technology, research etc progress you are going to be able to build something that is stronger, more powerful whatever it be than something in the past at it really does not matter of the size the vehicle is. .

The 100 series was no doubt the strongest suv frame on the market when it was introduced in 1998. The engineering of the frame at time was stronger than the 4runner at the time but one can't really say that the current 4runner frame is weaker when it can perform just as good as the larger 100 series if not better in some aspects such as towing for instance.

At that time the 100 series was introduced the 4runner had a 105 inch wheelbase, front disc/rear drums, v6 and 4 speed tranny. The current 120 series now has longer wheel base, 4 wheel discs, v8, 5 speed etc...for 2003 Toyota built on every aspect of the 4runner before it.

I would say that the 120 has higher towing capacity because the majority of things we're not overbuilt, causing the vehicles curb weight to be lower

And I would have to say that inprovment is the strength of steel used, quality parts, technology etc has help the GX perform as good if not better in some aspects.

If the 100 series used 12.5 inch rotors all around then Toyota must of over built the brake system on the 120 series by using 13 inch rotors.

Here is a couple quotes from some original print articles from 1998

The extra stiffness and refined manners come at a price, however--mass. The new, all-steel-bodied Cruiser weighs nearly 500 pounds more than its predecessor, mostly due to the chassis and body upgrades. Kondo says there was no plan to offset the added mass with lighter weight components, such as aluminum body panels. At nearly 6,500 pounds GVWR, the Cruiser is actually a medium-duty vehicle.

New Land Cruiser gets V-8 - Toyota Land Cruiser - includes related article on the Lexus LX450 | Automotive Industries | Find Articles at BNET

We can throw out the whole heavy duty issue. So its a medium duty vehicle.

 

[pagemaster]

The M1 Abrams entered service in 980. The VW New Beetle in 1998

You damn right. Over a 1000+ years later....of course the VW New Beetle will be much tougher.

 

[NeilC]

I own both and can tell you there is no comparison. My wife has a 2006 4wd 4Runner with a v6 and I have a 2000 Landcruiser. The Landcruiser is a tank compared to the 4runner. Like people have said, crawl underneath both trucks and you will see. It is almost like comparing a Tacoma to a Tundra. One important thing to understand is that the Landcruiser is a spare no expense design. Sure the Lexus has more luxury amentities but the Landcruiser has the same running gear. It is obvious when driving the two that the 4runner is a lot lighter vehicle. The formula for towing limits are calcuated buy subtracting vehicle weight from combined weight which penalizes the heavier vehicle. The Landcruiser is a thousand pounds heavier and you can tell. The 4runner is faster even when you compare the v6 4runner to the LC. I know because we raced them and I got spanked. The 4runner is a hybrid in that the same basic platform is used for 2wd and 4wd. The 4runner is also designed to meet a price point where it must compete against other midsized SUVs. Dont get me wrong, the 4runner is the best midsize SUV out there but cannot compare to the Landcruiser. Normal people dont try to compare a $30,000 truck to a $60,000 truck but I can tell you that my 9 year old LC with 115,000 miles rides and drives better than my wife's 2 year old 4runner with 20,000 miles.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

It's easy to find quotes. For example, from Auto Buyer's Guide:

As an off-road machine, the current 4Runner is severely compromised. Toyota baked all of its mud-plugging goodness into the FJ Cruiser and relegated the 4Runner to highway and light trail duty. In other words, the 4Runner is now a refined, rugged looking, long-legged station wagon that gets miserable gas mileage. It's a terrific machine, but what's the point?

I'd take the word of the 2 people who have now posted and OWN both.

Besides, you're on a damn Land Cruiser board, to call it anything but heavy duty is blasphemy.

 

[pagemaster]

The 4runner is a hybrid in that the same basic platform is used for 2wd and 4wd.

WTF you talking about hybrid stuff....

but I can tell you that my 9 year old LC with 115,000 miles rides and drives better than my wife's 2 year old 4runner with 20,000 miles

Yet is slower than hell as it taxed at max cargo weight and can't tow as much and is a gas pig.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

pagmaster, do you own a Land Cruiser?

 

[Brian894X4]

I've driven both to some degree, although I'm an 80 guy. The 4runner was pretty zippy on the highway, even with the 4.0. But I was not impressed off road. It could barely clear a slightly ungraded dirt road. The damn thing kept bottoming out and ground clearance sucks. I'm sure a lift could help. I couldn't even slide under to it get a decent look at the undercarraige. The 100 was quite heavy feeling, but definately felt like a much better built vehicle. Both had good brakes. Better than my 80. I can't say I've taken a 100 off road, like I have the 4runner, but I think it would do just fine.

I think the 4Runner would make a great daily driver for my wife's commuter car, and it's at least better off road than the Subaru Forester we have. It would make a nice vehicle for highway trips with some graded dirt road travel. I would want mods before I tried even moderate off roading with it. And even then, I'd be worried about breaking stuff.

The 4Runner is not a bad vehicle. Toyota at least continued with a heavy duty fully boxed frame, unlike the Tacoma/Tunda garbage. The vehicle is made in Japan, with largely Japanese designed and sourced parts..and that's a good thing. But since the Land Cruiser is as well, there's no advantage there when comparing the two.

The bottom line is we're talking about two completely different classes of vehicles. In their class each is superior to the competition. I can't imagine anything that comes close to the 4runner in it's class. But one class is definately higher in value and heavier duty than the other. I'm not sure the Land Cruiser even has competition, because the only vehicles I can think of that compete with it, aren't even imported into this country.

Of the two vehicles, one is a $30K mass produced mid sized medium duty consumer vehicle and other is a $60-70K specialty built heavy duty commerical vehicle.

 

[FirstToy]

I can't crawl under a stock 100 either. The 4Runner is lower stock but that isn't a criteria for it's capability.
Great trucks are built by their owners not the factory. The 4Runner is a high quality platform at a terrific value.

For example, a quality buildup by Joel Sincity 4Runner
can you build a 100 like this? Nope.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

can you build a 100 like this? Nope.

Sure you can, all it takes is money.

 

[Jim_Chow]

(1) The 4th gen 4runner's 5spd tranny has aluminum planetary gears vs. the LC's steel gears. The aluminum gears saved 200 lbs. No word on the long-term durability yet.

(2) The 4Rnr's center diff is a torsion type. Still, I managed to get it stuck in some pretty easy (flat, soft, dry dirt from a large vehicle's tire tracks) and had to lock the center diff to get out. IMHO, the torsion diff doesn't buy any extra offroad performance, and traction control didn't get me out. Ground clearance is a joke.

(3) In terms of the suspension, Toyota got rid of the time-tested inner/outer bearing & hub construction for the front axle found on the 60/70/80/90/100 series and toyota minis (and probably 40 series?). Instead, there's a single pressed in sealed bearing in which the entire bearing and thing it's pressed into is replaced. Of course, the 30K repack requirement is no longer, either. It's just part of the trend of speeding up dealer service times and reducing ownership costs in the first 100K mi at the expense of extra costs < 100K mi. Since the FJC uses the 120 chassis, it would have the same construction. The 1st gen 4Rnr chassis design is still used on the Toyota hilux TD pickups overseas. I've seen them haul ~4000 lbs of hogs in steel cages stacked 10 ft high in Thailand using 9 leaf spring packs (these were mostly 2WD Toyota hilux diesel minis), so the frames were strong enough for this for daily use on/off pavement.

The general trend for Toyota is, the newer the vehicle design, the larger the body/interior space, better on-road performance & comfort (bigger engine, cushier seats, power everything) at the cost of offroad-worthiness (e.g., less ground clearance, big aluminum wheels vs. smaller steelies, IFS over live axle, etc.), fewer vehicle parts (meaning you have to buy an entire unit of several parts even if you only need one part, like window trim that only comes w/ the window unit) to save costs as the expense of long-term owners, more cost.

BTW, the latest thing toyota is doing is integrating the ECU's into boxes. For example, on the new CRown luxury sedan, instead of having 150 or so separate ECU's spread around the vehicle, there are only 4 ECU units. So if something goes wrong, I guess you have to replace the entire unit for thousands of $$$$ instead of $500 for a single ECU. All this for reducing production and warehousing costs at the expense of the buyer.

Still, I have driven a 4th gen V6 4Rnr SR5 4x4 and did find it very enjoyable. Fuel economy wasn't much better than on my 100 (20 mpg hwy on 87 oct vs. 19+ mpg on 91). The 100 is certainly built heavier, feels like you're driving a tank. For a DD, the 4Rnr is good for the peppier performance and smaller maneuvering size. I've found that the main limitation to the 100 offroad, even on easy terrain, is its width. Roads where trees will be brushing the sides of the 100 would be a cake walk for my old 4Rnr due to the 1 ft less width.

 

[Jim_Chow]

Sure you can, all it takes is money.

x2. Given enough money, almost anything can be done short of building the Starship Enterprise. And if money weren't a factor, you could mod a 100 w/ a SAS like Slee, or just import an international spec 105 series w/ 5spd manual and go through all the hoops of changing all the glass, adding airbags, lights, etc., then add a 4" 80-series lift w/ 35's.

 

[FirstToy]

dollar for dollar you can't do the same mods on a 100. Go ahead and try to put a long travel, coilover suspension on the 100. Tell me how that works out compared to the basically bolt-on installation on the 4Runner.
The 4Runner enjoys the advantages of cross-platform compatibility with a large array of suspension/mechanical upgrades.

I like the 100 but I don't feel the need to poo-poo the fantastic 4Runner to do it. And for the money, it's impossible to critique it that way.

 

[1loudLX]

I would take either really, that 4R is sick I wish I knew it was in vegas when i was there last weekend.

 

[Nsingh85]

Hi Guys,

Just a confirmation, is the 4Runner a Prado (120 series) or is it the Surf. (This is outside the states)
I live in Kenya and have seen the performance of all the 3 models. Though that id just confirm before i add to the thread

Cheers

 

[1loudLX]

its the surf

 

[Nsingh85]

Thanks Loud,

Thought so, but i was not sure.
The 4runner is not a very popular vehicle here, it was introduced some time back, but after a year or so, people changed back to the 100, 120 and 90 series.
Majority of the cruisers that are used offroad here belong to the UN, and are usually sent to Dafur (Sudan), Somalia and East
Africa. I can say that their fleet consists of 80% 100 series, but the 105 with the live axle and the rest is the 120 series.
The 120's are used by the management of UN, but when it comes to the rough stuff, the 105 are sent out. (The cars will be out of station for a good 2-3 months before they return)
I read someone mentioning about all the electronic goodies that are in the 4runner and not in the 100 series.
Here in Kenya, preference would be to the least of electronics in the car. Mechanical is the way to go. Thus the 105's. They are completely basic, that is they do not even have carpeting. The only electronics in it is the EFI system.
They are much cheaper to modify than the IFS, and are a simpler system.
When it comes to AHC, i think mine is one of the only cars that has it, (which will be scrapped within the next month or so). Toyota Kenya, does not even stock the service kit for this system, and they do not recomend it for this part of the world.
The 100 and 120 is a much sterdier car and can handle alot more offroad than the 4runners.
The UN had bought some 4runners, but i think they got rid of them within 6 months, and reverted back to the 100's.
From personal experiance, we had a 4runner which used to go to the mines in Tanzania and after about 5 trips (about 5000kms in total) we had to get rid of the car.
We currently have an 80's (owned for 1 year) that is doing the run, and besides burst tyres and broken rims, the car lc is going strong (just for informations sake, we have gone through about 2 sets of steel rims).
I have done the trip in my 100 series twice and the car is still perfect.
The same mine that i went to had ordered some Nissan Hardbody pick up trucks, but they sold them after the first 10,000 kms and went back to the trusty 100's.
The 80 and the 105 are the true cars for Africa
Thats my $0.02

Cheers!!

 

[hoser]

I think there are different ideas of what "Heavy Duty" means. Some define it with performance factors such as towing capacity, brake size, torsional strength of the frame, etc. If this the case, then the Tundra/Sequoia is the heaviest duty of all Toyotas in the US.

Others define heavy duty with regards to longevity, durability and the ability to take abuse on a day to day basis as if their livelihood relied on it. A 1985 70 series might be "technologically weak" compared to a new 4Runner. It has a frame with 23 year old technology, small brakes (with drums brakes in the rear) and couldn't tow 3500 lbs on a good day but I would bet it would take more abuse, survive more industrial work and go the distance more so than the 4Runner.

Toyota has their Land Cruiser line classified into three categories. Heavy duty, Wagon Type and Light Duty. From my understanding, the 4Runner is very close to both the Surf and 120 series.

TOYOTA LAND CRUISER Data Library