100 series vs. 4runner drivetrain

[Brian894X4]

I promised. I'm keeping my keyboard "shut".

I'm shocked. This is one thread, right up your alley. Besides it's not like we're arguing over the 100 verses the clearly superior 80 series. This is between the 100 and the 4Runner. Why are we even debating? So, allow me....The 100 series is actually used all over the world in extreme conditions, along side the 105. The 105 is not available everywhere and the 100 series offers things the 105 does not, such as the more powerful V-8 engine. The 105 was made to be cheaper alternative to the IFS 100 series. Not necessarily better, although better in some conditions. But make no mistake about the IFS 100 series having it's fair share of duty around the world in 3rd world countries.

Toyota Gibralter, which is a famous supplier of brand new Toyota 4x4s to overseas countries, aid agencies, UN, etc, that use them in extreme conditions, does not sell the 4runner, but they do sell the Prado. The Prado appears to have a simlier frame and drivetrain and suspension, but the body looks to be more conventional and probably more suited to the harsh environment. I also wonder if it's lighter than the 4Runner. And it doesn't suffer from that stupid Tacoma looking front end...my opinion only. They don't sell the 100, because they only sell "new" vehicles and the 100 has been discontinued in favor of the 200. All good things must come to an end at some point.

Here's a couple of IFS 100s that were converted, along with many others, into military vehicles for the middle east somewhere. IFS 100s in 3rd world countries and places like Australia, Africa, etc, are very common.

 

[EdsCruisin]

I have a 2000 LC and a 2005 4Runner V-8 AWD.

I can unequivocably say that the differences are substantial. The 4R is clearly more peppy, smaller and fun to buzz around in, but the LC is also clearly more comfortable. Do I tow my big travel trailer with the 4R? No way - not substantial enough to be a safe and comfortable ride. The suspension is wound so tight that you will puke before travelling far. I don't believe in "bigger is stronger," but when you look at the physics of it all, a substantial tow vehicle is less likely to get thrown off the road by the trailer. I wish the LC had bigger brakes, but my trailer brakes work pretty well.

The 4R with the newer engine and tranny gets much better gas mileage than the LC too. But when it's all said and done, both are great vehicles, or I would not have spent so much cash on them both. In fact I bought the 4R instead of a Highlander because it had a real frame and most SUVs do not any more. I wanted solid strength that will win in a collision.

Oh, and by the way, Wikipedia is a joke, put together by idiots. Anybody can post any misinformation they want on that website. And the vehicle choice of the UN or any other government for that matter may have nothing to do with "tough" as much as uniformity of parts and supply and maintenance training programs.

 

[pagemaster]

A 4runner is a $30K vehicle, the Tundra is a $30K vehicle and the LC is a $60K vehicle

A 4runner limited v8 is about $41k and a Land Cruiser V8 100 series was around $60k. Much of the Land Cruiser high price tag is to pay for premium interior materials and state of the art Nav/Hvac system and at the time the very first use of applications such as side air bags, AHC, VSC, power telescoping steering, memoroy seats, auto power windows all around, fully power 10 way passenger seat, backup camera (2003+) etc... A lot of the price difference is in these features and amentities. Some of these features don't exist on the 4runner however some have trickle down to 4runner level and almost all were for sure were not around on the 98 4runner at the time 100 series introduction.

The new 200 series tops the technology list of a Toyota in the new mulitvision nav/hvac, 4.5 Diesel, 6 speed, new KDSS (not the same as GX), new TEM suspension in LX, 10 airbags, pre crash etc.


I have no doubt that the 100 series and 200 series are premium full size suvs. But I don't believe that they are over built compared to the 120 series and Hilux's. A Toyota Hllux will not let you down anymore than a Land Cruiser will...perhaps it can't cross the same footings....but yet one vehicle can move more while the other can go farther. You go anywhere in Africa other than Egypt and South Africa and the Land Cruiser is only sold in diesel versions. Maybe a few places will have a gas but you won't be seeing the 5.7 in LC form anywhere else than the US for right now.

I have also yet to see any data, press material or anything that claims that the 100 series uses a steel gear instead of aluminum...

What is crystal clear is this...The UN uses Hilux's, Prado, 70 series and yes 200 series Land Cruisers. Non of the applications use the 5 speed and non of the application use the 4.7 v8 which is what was being compared by the OP
The 4.0 v6 is used only in manual form which is straight out of the FJ. TGS-Home

I highly doubt any Toyota crossing the Sahara desert or anywhere in Congo, somalia etc will be using the nav/hvac system found in the 100 series or 200 series or the 4.7 gaser.

LC is a $60K vehicle

In diesel form....the Prado 3.0 is a $70k US vehicle and the the 200 series tops $105k US when you convert the currency.


Anyways. I have enjoyed this thread a lot. I know a lot of Land Cruiser owners are sucked in by marketing etc etc....and I also know you guys love you LC very much...

What I do like about most Land Cruiser owners is that a lot of them use their Cruisers for serious off roading or trekking the unknown...I see a lot less 4runners, GX at least in NA not used for anything other than on pavement use and some light snow.

With that being said...enjoy your 100 series...

 

[04UZJ100]

I appreciate all the time you have given this thread pagemaster. I feel that some, not all, of the responses are from biased owners but that is fine. I understand how they love the 100 series...I can understand that.

I too have searched high a low and found no info regarding the fact that the 5spd trans uses steel over aluminum gears. There is some homegrown website that claims this but I give it little if any credit. They were released at EXACTLY the same time for the 2003 LC and the 2003 v8 4runner. I doubt that toyota would produce two different trans in vehicles that come out of the SAME factory.

With that being said, I have found no info regarding the construction of the new 200 series/tundra transmission as I presume that it uses Aluminum gears.

 

[dclee]

Anyways. I have enjoyed this thread a lot. I know a lot of Land Cruiser owners are sucked in by marketing etc etc....and I also know you guys love you LC very much...

What marketing? Please find me one domestic U.S. magazine ad or TV commercial about the Land Cruiser. Can't? Of course not, because Toyota does not need to market its flagship vehicle. The 4Runner, on the other hand (and the Tundra too) is in every car rag in every grocery store in the nation, and all over the boob tube.

BTW, you still have not cited your sources for all of these fantastic technological advancements in frame technology. I'm going to take a wild guess and say... you can't, because like every other statement you've made on here, you just pulled that one out of your @$$.

Cheers, and enjoy your POS Tundra!

 

[NeilC]

A loaded Limited 4runner will have about the same luxury options as Landcruiser so the $20,000 difference is not luxury items.

Logically ou would expect 3 different types of people to respond to threads like these:

1 people that have or had 100s
2 people that have or had 120s
3 people that have or had both

People that only read a bunch of press releases are useless because they have no real knowledge. That is the danger of the internet. People that have no real first hand knowledge can try to appear to be experts. I have no reason to be biased for or against either truck. They are both the best at what they are and will likely each be better depending on the user. I simply have a problem with the statement that the LC is not a stronger heavier duty platform. The LC is built better to handle extreme enviornments. Simply look underneath at things like the gas tank, skid plates and tow hooks or loops in case of the 4runner. Newer is not always better. Sometimes newer means more corners have been cut to drive down costs.

Toyota uses the LC to test out many of the newer technologies like ATRAC. The 4.7 that came in my 2000 is a better engine with more forged parts than newer 4.7s. I don't know what parts are inside either transmission and I hope that I never find out. All I know is that the bolts and other parts I have dealt with on the LC are bigger and better laid out than the 4runner. As for as the frame strength, I have no idea, I haven't bent either one's frame but the LC feels more solid.

I have the choice to drive either because my wife likes both. If given the choice, it usually comes down to gas mileage to get me to take the 4runner. On longer trips without the trailer, I try to take the 4runner. The V6 4runner gets better gas mileage mainly because you have the ability to select 2wd. From what I read on other forums the V8 4wd 4runner only gets a mpg or 2 better than my LC while the my wife's v6 gets as high as 22-23 on the highway. The best that I have gotten with my LC is 18 or 19 on the highway.

My wife likes to take the LC on longer trips because of the ride. She prefers to drive the 4runner around town because it feels smaller and seems easier to park. I try to push her toward the 4runner because of the newness compared to the LC. I would rather her drive the 20,000 vehicle than the 115,000 vehicle. When my LC dies in 5 to 10 years, I will take her 4runner and get her something new. We can't afford a new LC so I don't know what it will be.

I like both trucks and if I had to commute 30 or so miles each way to work, I would rather have the v6 4runner for gas savings. If I wanted take off on a long journey across a desert it would be a LC. If I wanted a nice Japanese built very reliable midsize SUV with more than enough power and offroad ability and could not afford a LC I would definitely pick up a 4runner limited or a GX470.

Both are excellent trucks but the LC is definitely built tougher judging from everything I have seen. Although I haven't read all the press releases

 

[dclee]

I doubt that toyota would produce two different trans in vehicles that come out of the SAME factory.

They don't come out of the same factory. 4Runners are built at Tahara, Land Cruisers at Araco (or Toyota Auto Body). Though they may have since moved them...

 

[pagemaster]

They don't come out of the same factory. 4Runners are built at Tahara, Land Cruisers at Araco (or Toyota Auto Body).

All Land Cruisers are built in small volumes in Japan. Production is shared between the Yoshiwara plant, in Aichi, Japan, (now manufacturing Prius, LX470 and 4Runner) and Toyota's vaunted Tahara plant, which mostly manufactures Lexus vehicles. These are Toyota's flagship manufacturing facilities. Standards at the Tahara plant, in particular, have been described in American newspapers as untouchable, approaching fewer than 10 defects per 1 million parts.

http://www.internetautoguide.com/reviews/09-int/2008/toyota/land-cruiser/index.html
TOYOTA: Company > Company Profile

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Play nice kids, or we'll close the thread and go back to arguing about floor mats.

 

[Topmounter]

This is fun and all, but you guys do realize this guy is a troll right?

 

[Jim_Chow]

I have also yet to see any data, press material or anything that claims that the 100 series uses a steel gear instead of aluminum...

...

Here are two links I found (can't attest to the accuracy)

ROCKCRAWLER.com - 2003 Toyota 4Runner First Look

4Wheelin? With A Toyota 4Runner

Still, with my limited experience driving a SR5 4WD 4runner, I was quite impressed for what you got (ride, feel, fit & finish) for the money (~$30K), and have no doubt that under normal driving conditions (some offroad, limited towing, mostly on pavement), the 4Runner will last 200K+ miles like most toyota trucks. It doesn't feel as solid or as quiet as the 100, nor is does the seating position give you as much of a comanding view of the road, but like I say, for $30-35K, it's a great value. The GX is $50K (can probably weasel one for $45K), only worth it if you're considering the 4runner Limited, which is already $40K. Nice thing about the V8 is you don't have to worry about the 4wd switch/motor not engaging when the need it. That's reason enough for me to sacrifice 2 mpg. Eventually, my plan is to replace my current 4runner and honda CRV DD's with a new 4Runner or equivalent, drive it as my DD, then hand it down to my son, assuming Toyota keeps the 4runner of the future an offroad-worthy vehicle.

 

[SWUtah]

A 4runner limited v8 is about $41k and a Land Cruiser V8 100 series was around $60k. Much of the Land Cruiser high price tag is to pay for premium interior materials and state of the art Nav/Hvac system and at the time the very first use of applications such as side air bags, AHC, VSC, power telescoping steering, memoroy seats, auto power windows all around, fully power 10 way passenger seat, backup camera (2003+) etc... A lot of the price difference is in these features and amentities. Some of these features don't exist on the 4runner however some have trickle down to 4runner level and almost all were for sure were not around on the 98 4runner at the time 100 series introduction.

The new 200 series tops the technology list of a Toyota in the new mulitvision nav/hvac, 4.5 Diesel, 6 speed, new KDSS (not the same as GX), new TEM suspension in LX, 10 airbags, pre crash etc.


I have no doubt that the 100 series and 200 series are premium full size suvs. But I don't believe that they are over built compared to the 120 series and Hilux's. A Toyota Hllux will not let you down anymore than a Land Cruiser will...perhaps it can't cross the same footings....but yet one vehicle can move more while the other can go farther. You go anywhere in Africa other than Egypt and South Africa and the Land Cruiser is only sold in diesel versions. Maybe a few places will have a gas but you won't be seeing the 5.7 in LC form anywhere else than the US for right now.

I have also yet to see any data, press material or anything that claims that the 100 series uses a steel gear instead of aluminum...

What is crystal clear is this...The UN uses Hilux's, Prado, 70 series and yes 200 series Land Cruisers. Non of the applications use the 5 speed and non of the application use the 4.7 v8 which is what was being compared by the OP
The 4.0 v6 is used only in manual form which is straight out of the FJ. TGS-Home

I highly doubt any Toyota crossing the Sahara desert or anywhere in Congo, somalia etc will be using the nav/hvac system found in the 100 series or 200 series or the 4.7 gaser.




In diesel form....the Prado 3.0 is a $70k US vehicle and the the 200 series tops $105k US when you convert the currency.


Anyways. I have enjoyed this thread a lot. I know a lot of Land Cruiser owners are sucked in by marketing etc etc....and I also know you guys love you LC very much...

What I do like about most Land Cruiser owners is that a lot of them use their Cruisers for serious off roading or trekking the unknown...I see a lot less 4runners, GX at least in NA not used for anything other than on pavement use and some light snow.

With that being said...enjoy your 100 series...

I had a 2007 4runner limited with everything on it and it "listed" for around $41K. If you go to any Toyota lot and look at a new Landcruiser they are all loaded and will list for $70K so let use your numbers of loaded vehicles and you have a $30K difference in list price. My point is still valid. I've owned both a couple of times and the LC/LX is in a different bracket then the 4runner. Just go look at a Landcruiser pick a year between 1998 and 2007 and compare the leather in the LC with the leather in the 4runner limited. Not even close, I know I've owned both. Then if you want to compare with the LX you step up another level on the leather scale, but more on the soft and butter level. The LC leather is extra thick and durable. PS I also owned a Tundra V8 4x4 when they first came out. What a nice truck, should of had a Lexus emblem on it, compared with Ford/Chevy or Dodge.

 

[Brian894X4]

I kind of doubt the price premium of the 100 has anything to do with electronics.

My '95 FZJ80 cost $48K in 1995 and that was the price that was paid for it. And that was without several options, including lockers. It would cost have $66,345 in 2007 dollars had it been sold today. And the 80 series is hardly full of electronics compared to anything made today, including the 4Runner.

Ironicly, I optioned up a brand new top of the line 4runner on Toyota's website and still couldn't get up to $48K, much less $66K. It's a nice vehicle, but totally different class.

It's possible that being a fairly rare vehicle...only about 10-15K imported each year, helped cause a price premium, but there's no doubt the 80 series is better built with much high quality components than other models. I assume the 100 is the same way.

No manufacture is perfect and there are mistakes with every design, but as mentioned, the Land Cruiser is Toyota's flagship. It is made in much fewer numbers and attention to detail in both design and construction is extreme compared to other models. Better parts and components are used and this is largely why it costs so much more.

My understanding is there are no recalls on the 80 or 100 series Land Cruisers...none. While the Prado and 4runners have several. Not a lot, but still several.

One of the things that bothers me about the 4Runner/GX470 is that they have curb weights that are similiar to the 80 series, but have a Hilux chassis/suspension/steering components. This makes me question just how much these vehicles can be overloaded for extreme use. The 80/100/LX450/LX470 series have been repeatedly proven that they can take half a ton over the published gross weight or more and still keep on trucking.

In the end, it's not about one vehicle being a piece of garbage and the other not. Both are top notch in their class, but which one is the most extreme? The highest capacity, best longevity, best reliability....if you're life depended on it and you were in the middle of nowhere...which one would you really rather have?

 

[1loudLX]

For what its worth. The 100 series and 105 series Land Cruisers are no longer supplied by Toyota to the UN but the 70 series, 120 series and 200 series are now offered as well as the Hilux..

Thats cuz the 100series isnt made anymore, duh. Is everyone so dim?

 

[1loudLX]

Play nice kids, or we'll close the thread and go back to arguing about floor mats.

Sounds like a plan. By the way...still never figured out how to keep my tailgate shut

 

[dclee]

All Land Cruisers are built in small volumes in Japan. Production is shared between the Yoshiwara plant, in Aichi, Japan, (now manufacturing Prius, LX470 and 4Runner) and Toyota's vaunted Tahara plant, which mostly manufactures Lexus vehicles. These are Toyota's flagship manufacturing facilities. Standards at the Tahara plant, in particular, have been described in American newspapers as untouchable, approaching fewer than 10 defects per 1 million parts.

From the horse's mouth:

Lexus Manufacturing

Notice that the LX (aka 100 Series [well, now 200 Series], aka Land Cruiser) is built at Araco, but the GX (aka 120 Series) is built at Tahara. I believe the the official website more than some unknown internet "informational" article.

But hey, I can play "quote the article" too!

The Lexus LX 570: a larger lap of luxury | Automotive Design & Production | Find Articles at BNET

According to this, only the engine is produced at Tahara. The rest of the vehicle is and always has been produced at Yoshiwara (Honsha plant, i.e. Araco). 4Runner and Cruiser are not currently assembled in the same factory.

2008 Lexus LX 570 Review - Four Wheeler Magazine

Toyota Auto Body again, not Tahara.

 

[dclee]

This is fun and all, but you guys do realize this guy is a troll right?

Yeah, but like you said, it's fun!

 

[1loudLX]

typing is good exercise.

 

[Topmounter]

Yeah, but like you said, it's fun!

Ok, just making sure no one was taking this seriously

 

[Nsingh85]

So they are not using the 100 series Land Cruiser with the IFS but instead they are actually using the 105 series with solid front which from what I have read is actually a 100 series body on top of a 80's series chassis. So it appears that you are pretty much confirming that the IFS of the 100 series is not as tough as it seems.

So the fact that the 105 series is being used for the rough stuff and the 120 series for management pretty much makes it look like 120 series can handle most situations...I am sure there are 100 series IFS used by the UN but it looks like they are not being used by management or anyone in the Kenya, Darfur region.

Comparing the 105 series to the 120 series is a little different than comparing the 100 series and 120 series.

For what its worth. The 100 series and 105 series Land Cruisers are no longer supplied by Toyota to the UN but the 70 series, 120 series and 200 series are now offered as well as the Hilux..
The fact that the 120 series uses the same engines, transmission and assembly lines, uses larger brakes has a higher tow capacity tells me that a 120 series Toyota is just as well built as any Toyota from the past.

As good as the 100 series was/is vehicle engineering has moved on to better things from when the 100 series was introduced.

To the poster that said the Land Cruiser in Sudan are actually solid front axles 105 series Land Cruiser goes to show you that the 100 series with IFS as the OP brought uo is not all that tough and over build after all as they are using 105 series and 120 series in the area.

Hi pagemaster,
There are a few reasons that the IFS is not bough by NGO's here.
1. They are more expensive to modify than the 105's.
2. Mechanics here are not the best and the live axle is a simpler system (coil and shock).
3. The 105's u get here are non turbo, thus fewer parts to break or blow.
4. The 105's u get here have fewer electronics.
5. There is no carpet inside to worry about.

People here buy the 100's as a personal car.

Cheers!!