100 series performance in soft sand (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Kekoa12
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hoser
SILVER Star
Whatever he’s running.... lol..
looks like a classic dirt bike setup, narrow tires by design since its a dirtbike and paddle tires for the rear.
Can’t wait for this to get cross posted to other forums:
wiDe TirEs aIr DowN MoRe tHaN Sk1nn1Es: the ih8MuD eXpeRiEncE
It’s simple physics with skinnies being the winner and pretty clear to those who understand physics vs those who don’t. End of the day, run whatever tires you’ve already bought as it won’t make enough of a difference to justify changing tire sizes. We’re all here because we love these rigs
wiDe TirEs aIr DowN MoRe tHaN Sk1nn1Es: the ih8MuD eXpeRiEncE
It’s simple physics with skinnies being the winner and pretty clear to those who understand physics vs those who don’t. End of the day, run whatever tires you’ve already bought as it won’t make enough of a difference to justify changing tire sizes. We’re all here because we love these rigs
And that' not even aired down.
Well done, Kekoa 12 from Kauai Island in Hawaii, with a special interest in local mountain trails and Polihale Beach --
100 series performance in soft sand .
Your First Post awakened both the Tyre Dragon and the Tire Dragon and yielded 86 fire-breathing replies and counting!
Seriously, we all benefit from the wide-ranging discussion that followed in this thread, even if there was not universal agreement.
At the start of the thread, the actual parameters you specified were:
So that is pretty much your statement of the purpose of your vehicle. You know your locality because you live there. A quick look around the web reveals that Kauai Island is an interesting and impressive place -- http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/coasts/publications/hawaiiCoastline/Kauai.pdf.
Your question was, “I'm concerned the weight of the 100 series will make driving at Polihale difficult and maybe I should go with a 4runner or GX 470?” In other words “Will a 100 series be fit-for-your-purpose?” Not anyone else’s purpose. And on that question you sought opinions.
Answers without bias and prejudice in favour of the 100 series may be hard to find on a 100 series forum! I do know that my daughter’s Suzuki Jimny with a Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) of 1,435kg (3,164 pounds) is easier on sand than my LC100 with a GVM of 3,260kg (7,187 pounds) – but I am not for changing!
So far, I have been able to make my successive Landcruisers – FJ45, FJ55, LC100 x 4 -- all work on all the sands encountered – but that does not yet include your Polihale Beach ….
I also live on an island. It is a bit bigger than Kauai Island. It has a coastline of 25,760 kilometres, or a little over 16,000 miles, with lots of beaches with many different kinds of sand, many deserts some of which were beaches or ocean floors long ago in earlier geological times, and, some fairly well worn down ancient mountains now threaded with many interesting trails. I have lived, played, worked and explored many of these places over the last 70 years and 3 months.
Like you, I am still very interested to learn and remain respectful of the opinions of others. My purpose statement for my vehicle is very similar to yours – but expanded slightly. It may be different to the purposes of everyone else who has replied but that is their right.
There are lots of important things with tyres. When it comes to sand, I think of three things:
A snatch strap and the correct vehicle fittings could be added to the list – but can be very dangerous if not attached and used properly. Obviously, good cooperation and communication with another vehicle is needed for safe ‘snatching’.
Please don’t do this with a snatch strap:
Please take these safety precautions instead:
The articles by Outback Joe are long and require patience but are worth a read:
How to Drive on Sand
Tyre Pressure Guide
Good luck with your vehicle choice and enjoy your Island!
100 series performance in soft sand .
Your First Post awakened both the Tyre Dragon and the Tire Dragon and yielded 86 fire-breathing replies and counting!
Seriously, we all benefit from the wide-ranging discussion that followed in this thread, even if there was not universal agreement.
At the start of the thread, the actual parameters you specified were:
- your vehicle must function as a daily driver, and,
- your primary offroad use would be weekend camping trips to:
- remote camping spots in the mountains, and/or,
- a long beach called Polihale with super soft and usually very dry sand.
So that is pretty much your statement of the purpose of your vehicle. You know your locality because you live there. A quick look around the web reveals that Kauai Island is an interesting and impressive place -- http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/coasts/publications/hawaiiCoastline/Kauai.pdf.
Your question was, “I'm concerned the weight of the 100 series will make driving at Polihale difficult and maybe I should go with a 4runner or GX 470?” In other words “Will a 100 series be fit-for-your-purpose?” Not anyone else’s purpose. And on that question you sought opinions.
Answers without bias and prejudice in favour of the 100 series may be hard to find on a 100 series forum! I do know that my daughter’s Suzuki Jimny with a Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) of 1,435kg (3,164 pounds) is easier on sand than my LC100 with a GVM of 3,260kg (7,187 pounds) – but I am not for changing!
So far, I have been able to make my successive Landcruisers – FJ45, FJ55, LC100 x 4 -- all work on all the sands encountered – but that does not yet include your Polihale Beach ….
I also live on an island. It is a bit bigger than Kauai Island. It has a coastline of 25,760 kilometres, or a little over 16,000 miles, with lots of beaches with many different kinds of sand, many deserts some of which were beaches or ocean floors long ago in earlier geological times, and, some fairly well worn down ancient mountains now threaded with many interesting trails. I have lived, played, worked and explored many of these places over the last 70 years and 3 months.
Like you, I am still very interested to learn and remain respectful of the opinions of others. My purpose statement for my vehicle is very similar to yours – but expanded slightly. It may be different to the purposes of everyone else who has replied but that is their right.
- my vehicle must function as a daily driver – the tyres I use must be good enough for ALL that I do as I have no interest in the expense and inconvenience of operating several specialised sets of tyres nor operating off-standard tyre sizes. Yes – it is a compromise but my tyres will remain as 275/65R17 or thereabouts which was how my latest LC100 was delivered from the factory 13 years ago. Yes – I know specialist tyres, profiles and sizes will perform better in the special circumstances for which they are designed BUT that always brings some other compromises. And the height adjustment provided by the AHC system is all that I need, so I don’t yearn for a greater tyre diameter.
- my primary off-road or rough road use would be occasional trips to
- remote spots in the mountains which may involve rocky or muddy trails, and/or,
- various beaches and deserts with all different kinds of sand and rocks, and,
- sometimes involving visits to all of these kinds of places in the same trip.
There are lots of important things with tyres. When it comes to sand, I think of three things:
- Footprint bearing pressure – must be suitable for the materials and surface over which I intend to drive. I am prepared to 'air down' to increase tyre contact area and reduce surface bearing pressure at the tyre footprint but if that is insufficient for some situation then I don’t go there in my LC100 (rare in my experience),
- Traction is important – with as little slip as possible, even in sand. Wheel spin in sand just turns the tyre into a very efficient excavator – and down goes the vehicle! When the differentials and frame are sitting in the sand nothing else matters much until clearance has been achieved. However, with gently applied torque, lugs can add to traction without much ‘excavation’,
- The always-present risks of getting stuck – which eventually happens to many people including me – and safe recovery.
A snatch strap and the correct vehicle fittings could be added to the list – but can be very dangerous if not attached and used properly. Obviously, good cooperation and communication with another vehicle is needed for safe ‘snatching’.
Please don’t do this with a snatch strap:
Please take these safety precautions instead:
The articles by Outback Joe are long and require patience but are worth a read:
How to Drive on Sand
Tyre Pressure Guide
Good luck with your vehicle choice and enjoy your Island!
- Thread starter
- #87
Yes, those things are definitely on my list to buy with my vehicle when I get ready to pull the trigger. Thanks for the input!
- Thread starter
- #88
Story time. I was told by the locals in Hawaii when I went to drive on Polihale beach (the one referenced by OP) that "it isn't like driving in other sand." I had a rented JKU and figured "how hard can it be? I'll just air down?"
Well, I ended up driving my pregnant wife onto the part of the beach owned by the DoD (Pacific Missile Range is right there) and getting stuck. Guys with machine guns came out and threatened to arrest us and told us we'd have to come back to court in Honolulu, etc. I spent 5 hours digging the stupid thing out. Dropped down to about 3 PSI and ended up having to get one of those farm 6x6s to pull us out. Absolutely awful.
The sand is composed of little animal shells or something weird and sticky. It's very soft and very different. IMO, a significantly heavier cruiser on stock tires would have a really hard time. I disagree to get tall pizza cutter tires. For sand you'd want wide and floaty tires for max contact patch.
Ultimately, I ended up not getting arrested and they were lenient. But pay attention to those signs, too.
Yes, I agree the sand is different there. I grew up vacationing at beaches on the gulf coast and the sand at Polihale is much softer. It's hard to even walk in it. That's my concern about a heavy LC there. I took my AWD Hyundai Veracruz camping there and was being careful of where I went and trying to stick to the hard pack roads and still got stuck and had to have an F-150 pull me out. Glad you finally got out and didn't get arrested!
- Thread starter
- #89
Thanks IndroCruise, very thoughtful reply and advice. Great video of what not to do during recovery!
- Thread starter
- #90
Thanks for the input. Yes, Polihale is the beach at the Northwestern end. It's a popular beach to drive on because it's so large (15 miles long) and one of the only beaches on island where you can legally camp in a roof top tent or sleep in the back of your truck. Most camping areas don't allow you to sleep in your car I assume to keep homeless people from living there in a car.
- Thread starter
- #91
It was nice to see an argument that wasn't about Trump for a change.OP - if you got the tl;dr point
... Yes, a 100 series will be fine in sand.
As an aside - Run whatever tyres you want to make your dick feel bigger, chode or pencil will both get the job done
- Thread starter
- #92
I don't think that will work here. Our parking spaces are already super narrow.
Cool cars get two spots. Federal law. Gotta wear your sun glasses on the back of your head too.
I live on the coast with beaches and dunes, and spend time on both. I don't have any problems running on the flat beach wet or dry, and drive up and down dunes just as well. I generally use the center diff lock. I have an plain 100, with ordinary standard size Goodyear AT's. I'd say the 100 is capable as-is.
Used both 4H and 4L, usually leave it in 4H unless the sand is really super soft and dry so I can keep the revs up and speed moderate. Same with shifter in L or 2. I'm careful to keep momentum up so I don't sink in trouble areas. I avoid areas I think I might get stuck on like steep very soft sand, like a road more for atv's and lee side of steeper dunes. The wind blows the sand over the top of the dune, and it settles down full of air. You can sink in 12+ inches just trying to walk on it.
The sand here is moderately fine, but not powdery. Similar to sugar. I take more care when it is dry as it much easier to get stuck. My tire pressure is about 15psi regardless of conditions. I've tried 25, 20, 18, and if conditions are right they work fine. But I just go to 15 mostly and then I don't have to drop it down in the looser stuff, like super loose sand roads, windblown lee-side soft spots, dry sand. I've started higher, but can tell I'm boggin so have got out to air down more. I've been down to 12 in the worst conditions, and it worked good for me. It feels really weird to just be motoring through some insane sand no problem and all it is - is low tire pressure making it happen. In reality, conditions are constantly changing as you drive so you have to pay attention. I've tried road pressure and on the worst situations it was major spinning and heated up the trans temp to a warning light. So I aired down. On wetter sand it worked ok but I could tell it was harder on the vehicle, unless the sand was really wet and packed.
My first purchase was Vi-Air compressor, and then I bought some cheap deflators in a little case. That's all I've needed to enjoy my hometown stomping grounds.
Used both 4H and 4L, usually leave it in 4H unless the sand is really super soft and dry so I can keep the revs up and speed moderate. Same with shifter in L or 2. I'm careful to keep momentum up so I don't sink in trouble areas. I avoid areas I think I might get stuck on like steep very soft sand, like a road more for atv's and lee side of steeper dunes. The wind blows the sand over the top of the dune, and it settles down full of air. You can sink in 12+ inches just trying to walk on it.
The sand here is moderately fine, but not powdery. Similar to sugar. I take more care when it is dry as it much easier to get stuck. My tire pressure is about 15psi regardless of conditions. I've tried 25, 20, 18, and if conditions are right they work fine. But I just go to 15 mostly and then I don't have to drop it down in the looser stuff, like super loose sand roads, windblown lee-side soft spots, dry sand. I've started higher, but can tell I'm boggin so have got out to air down more. I've been down to 12 in the worst conditions, and it worked good for me. It feels really weird to just be motoring through some insane sand no problem and all it is - is low tire pressure making it happen. In reality, conditions are constantly changing as you drive so you have to pay attention. I've tried road pressure and on the worst situations it was major spinning and heated up the trans temp to a warning light. So I aired down. On wetter sand it worked ok but I could tell it was harder on the vehicle, unless the sand was really wet and packed.
My first purchase was Vi-Air compressor, and then I bought some cheap deflators in a little case. That's all I've needed to enjoy my hometown stomping grounds.
