100 Series - 3 Issues, New member, New truck.
- Thread starter Yeeeeeeha
- Start date
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2000UZJ - I'll have to post a new pic - The front end's come down in height since those pics were taken. I'll take and post something and maybe you can take another look? that's a great explanation about air getting under the truck and makes perfect sense. It does wander less now that it's lower.
The rest of what you're talking about, control arms, etc, I'll have to research and work through - maybe on the next round of upgrades.
Dan
Aftermarket upper control arms offer more adjustability on the alignment rack. It also allows you to run a slightly longer shock. The big plus for me, was the serviceability.
If you can, grab a tape measure and measure the distance between the center of the hub (Toyota emblem on the center cap) to the lip of the fender. I have found that any higher than 21" results in torque steer and difficulty getting a proper alignment. I have found that running a 1" lift on 35's is much more drivable than a 2.5" lift on 33's (or 35's). Also, when the front end is sitting up high, the control arms sit at a more vertical plane than normal. This means they have to push horizontally before the wheel can travel up. The flatter the control arm, the smoother ride will be, as they do not have to push out before they travel up...if that makes sense.
Concern 1---
I have a similar vibration at 70mph. It was there when I purchased the truck and I haven't been able to isolate it and/or correct it. Vibrations are notoriously difficult to track down, but it is not impossible. I had my drive shafts rebalanced as I thought this was the likely culprit but it didn't help. I suspect mine is likely an engine accessory making the vibration but i can't seem to find it. In your case-- truck height, diff drop, cv's, tire alignment and balancing, and shafts could all be considered as the culprit to the shake/shimmy. All of the solutions mentioned are relatively easy to work on as you try and get this resolved. I would personally start with the alignment/balance and then move on from there.
As an aside, I also have a booming/bass noise at 45-50mph which is rather bothersome but its likely to be a wheel bearing or an alignment/balance issue. I've found that these trucks are really sensitive to balance issues and tire pressure.
Concern 3--
I would bet that the M/T tires in combination with the armor on the truck are contributing to the lower mpg that you are experiencing. Follow the suggestions in the thread --plugs, clean maf and throttle body, and maybe run some techron through it to see if that helps. If not then you can move on to the 02 sensor suggestions. I recently changed my plugs and cleaned my throttle body and maf then ran a bottle of techron through the tank at 1/8 down to when the light came on and then another bottle at fill up and believe that all of the above helped with my mph. I get right at 12 mpg but I don't have any armor and am running 33" at tires with no lift.
The great thing about these trucks is that they are somewhat easy to work on and despite a vibration here or there will keep on running indefinitely with the proper maintenance. Keep us posted on how things are progressing.
BTW--nice rig. Great color!
I have a similar vibration at 70mph. It was there when I purchased the truck and I haven't been able to isolate it and/or correct it. Vibrations are notoriously difficult to track down, but it is not impossible. I had my drive shafts rebalanced as I thought this was the likely culprit but it didn't help. I suspect mine is likely an engine accessory making the vibration but i can't seem to find it. In your case-- truck height, diff drop, cv's, tire alignment and balancing, and shafts could all be considered as the culprit to the shake/shimmy. All of the solutions mentioned are relatively easy to work on as you try and get this resolved. I would personally start with the alignment/balance and then move on from there.
As an aside, I also have a booming/bass noise at 45-50mph which is rather bothersome but its likely to be a wheel bearing or an alignment/balance issue. I've found that these trucks are really sensitive to balance issues and tire pressure.
Concern 3--
I would bet that the M/T tires in combination with the armor on the truck are contributing to the lower mpg that you are experiencing. Follow the suggestions in the thread --plugs, clean maf and throttle body, and maybe run some techron through it to see if that helps. If not then you can move on to the 02 sensor suggestions. I recently changed my plugs and cleaned my throttle body and maf then ran a bottle of techron through the tank at 1/8 down to when the light came on and then another bottle at fill up and believe that all of the above helped with my mph. I get right at 12 mpg but I don't have any armor and am running 33" at tires with no lift.
The great thing about these trucks is that they are somewhat easy to work on and despite a vibration here or there will keep on running indefinitely with the proper maintenance. Keep us posted on how things are progressing.
BTW--nice rig. Great color!
- Thread starter
- #25
mtnracer: I'll look into Slee and Fox. Thanks for the tip!
You might want to look into your bank account before checking out those two items!!'
- Thread starter
- #27
Hey guys, little update. Got buried and am now digging into this.
Question, for the front cv assemblies (boots, shafts, all). Any opinions on Toyota vs alternative manufactures? Toyota parts are more expensive but are they worth it? Any recommendations? I've been quoted for empi parts - any good? Or FEQ?
Question, for the front cv assemblies (boots, shafts, all). Any opinions on Toyota vs alternative manufactures? Toyota parts are more expensive but are they worth it? Any recommendations? I've been quoted for empi parts - any good? Or FEQ?
I think I speak for every one in the 100 section when I say this about CV axles, "Go Toyota OEM axles.... and dont look back" aftermarket cvs are not built like the toyota ones and they cause all kinds of other issues such as vibrations while driving. yes they are more expensive but well worth it.
- Thread starter
- #29
Roger that! Thank you Kennyao30.
So a bit of an update here on the shake issues.
Tire Balance. The tires have been re-blanced 4 times now to no avail. The 3rd time was worse leading to steering wheel shake where there was no shake prior. Although the truck shakes a bit less. This balance was a highspeed on-the-car balance and it showed over 8oz off on one tire alone with some adjustments on all 4. I also just had it aligned, caster is maxed out and a couple other angles were adjusted. The balance was re-checked for the 4th time as well and no adjustments were made. A slight steering wheel shake persists even after the 4th balance and alignment. I was thinking I had exhausted this as a course of action.
Now, between the 3rd balance last week and this alignment and balance this week my CV boots blew open and starting throwing grease. The shop that did the balance doesn't do that work so I'm not worried they did it. So now I HAVE to get the CV's replaced thus leading to my above question about the Toyota parts. Two birds, one stone. I think I'm set there.
However, a new kink - the shop I went to get a 2nd quote on the CV work doesn't think it's the CV or U joints. I'm still replacing the CV assemblies but their guy thinks the shake is the tires. They want to rotate the tires and try some stuff before getting into all the mechanics. Part of me likes this as it's a simple approach to eliminate possible causes. If they just wanted to sell me U and CV joints they could have just said "sure, we'll install those" but they didn't. They're highly rated on Yelp with tons of reviews - so mentally I feel ok with this but honestly it's messing with my head.
They're also quoting the O2 Sensors, etc - I'll mention the OEM cheaper parts but does 160$ per sensor sound about right - I wish I wrenched myself but as I'm in LA....
Also, 2000UJZ - Hub to Fender I'm sitting at 21" - right on the money.
Current Alignment:
Front Left Actual:
-0.3 Camber
0.6 Caster
0.07 Toe
11.7 sai
11.4 Diff
Front Right actual:
0.2 Camber
0.8 caster
0.02 toe
12.1 SAI
11.9 Diff
Front actual:
-0.2 cross camber
-0.2 cross caster
-0.4 cross SAI
0.09 Total Toe
So a bit of an update here on the shake issues.
Tire Balance. The tires have been re-blanced 4 times now to no avail. The 3rd time was worse leading to steering wheel shake where there was no shake prior. Although the truck shakes a bit less. This balance was a highspeed on-the-car balance and it showed over 8oz off on one tire alone with some adjustments on all 4. I also just had it aligned, caster is maxed out and a couple other angles were adjusted. The balance was re-checked for the 4th time as well and no adjustments were made. A slight steering wheel shake persists even after the 4th balance and alignment. I was thinking I had exhausted this as a course of action.
Now, between the 3rd balance last week and this alignment and balance this week my CV boots blew open and starting throwing grease. The shop that did the balance doesn't do that work so I'm not worried they did it. So now I HAVE to get the CV's replaced thus leading to my above question about the Toyota parts. Two birds, one stone. I think I'm set there.
However, a new kink - the shop I went to get a 2nd quote on the CV work doesn't think it's the CV or U joints. I'm still replacing the CV assemblies but their guy thinks the shake is the tires. They want to rotate the tires and try some stuff before getting into all the mechanics. Part of me likes this as it's a simple approach to eliminate possible causes. If they just wanted to sell me U and CV joints they could have just said "sure, we'll install those" but they didn't. They're highly rated on Yelp with tons of reviews - so mentally I feel ok with this but honestly it's messing with my head.
They're also quoting the O2 Sensors, etc - I'll mention the OEM cheaper parts but does 160$ per sensor sound about right - I wish I wrenched myself but as I'm in LA....
Also, 2000UJZ - Hub to Fender I'm sitting at 21" - right on the money.
Current Alignment:
Front Left Actual:
-0.3 Camber
0.6 Caster
0.07 Toe
11.7 sai
11.4 Diff
Front Right actual:
0.2 Camber
0.8 caster
0.02 toe
12.1 SAI
11.9 Diff
Front actual:
-0.2 cross camber
-0.2 cross caster
-0.4 cross SAI
0.09 Total Toe
- Thread starter
- #30
moved numbers up a post
Last edited:
While I can't speak to ProComps specifically, I remember from research back in the jeep days that several (what I'll call) non-mainstream manufacturers will produce tires impossible to get a perfect balance on. Mainly due to the manufacturing process, tolerances, etc, especially when running an aggressive tread.
You could always reach out to another mud member and see about a quick swap of tires when you cure your other ailments, or go back to where you got them and see about a test run on other shoes.
Seems like a long shot, but if it takes 4 attempts at balancing tires, I'd say there is something up there.
Sweet ride and welcome!
You could always reach out to another mud member and see about a quick swap of tires when you cure your other ailments, or go back to where you got them and see about a test run on other shoes.
Seems like a long shot, but if it takes 4 attempts at balancing tires, I'd say there is something up there.
Sweet ride and welcome!
- Thread starter
- #33
Ok, here's an update on all the work. The shimmy in the body of the truck is less but still noticeable around 69-75mph. Rather disappointing really. At this point It has to be tires, yeah?
Also, I'm not going to call my problem a "vibration". It's really not. It's more like a shimmy or shaking of the body of the truck. I feel it in the seat and throughout the truck. Maybe I'll throw up a video showing how my camera shakes when my elbow is touching the arm rest.
1. Front and rear shaft U Joints. Replaced with Toyota parts. No change in shimmy.
2. CV boot, shaft and CV U joint assemblies. Replaced with Toyota parts. No change in shimmy
3. Tires were rotated front to back. Any shake in the steering wheel went away completely. A noticeable reduction in the shimmy of the truck but it's not gone. It simply starts at higher speeds and is somewhat reduced. I can still feel it in the seat, et all.
4. O2 Sensors. I installed "Automatic" in the ODB2 port and had been tracking my mpg for a few weeks with some local and highway driving prior to the install.
http://www.automatic.com/
Pre O2 sensors I was tracking 8-10mpg local and hwy. After O2 Sensors I'm getting 12-13mpg highway and 9-10 on short local urban trips. This is an improvement if even slight.
The Automatic app has a bug and I failed to get a reading on a 250 mile return trip from Joshua Tree. I tracked 13mpg going there but there is a lot of up hill driving. On the return I'm pretty sure I was in the 14-15mpg range (based on total consumption) but I don't have the data. Long term use will bear out the average but I'm hoping for at least 14mpg. This is better so I'm happy! Real world range, which is what I care about, has gone up by 60-100 miles per tank (conservatively) which is fantastic. I'm also a lead foot on the highway averaging 70-80mph so that doesn't help.
As for Automatic. Not a lot of in-depth info but it's a cool app. They're hopefully adding real time mpg and more charts and graphs. It's super easy to use, plugged in and just worked. It just beeps at you if you're accelerating too fast, breaking too hard or going over 70mph. It also charts your trip and shows you on the map where you did any of those three things then averages your mpg. Once it has real time info and graphs you can review it'll be very very cool. Nice to track it on an ipad as well.
Lastly, the lift, As recomended I'm at 21" on the mark center hub to bottom of front fender.
So at this point I'm going after tires as the shimmy culprit. I have one guy telling me it can't be that, another telling me it's totally that - There's nothing really left so tires it is.
Any recommendations out there? I might get the cheapest POS non-offroad tires I can find just to trouble shoot but long term I'm looking at the Good Year MT/R Kevlar or good 'ol BFG's. I'm sure there's thoughts out there. I'm also in touch with Procomp to see if they're willing to do me a solid with some replacement test tires.
Thanks for everyone's help on this.
Dan
Also, I'm not going to call my problem a "vibration". It's really not. It's more like a shimmy or shaking of the body of the truck. I feel it in the seat and throughout the truck. Maybe I'll throw up a video showing how my camera shakes when my elbow is touching the arm rest.
1. Front and rear shaft U Joints. Replaced with Toyota parts. No change in shimmy.
2. CV boot, shaft and CV U joint assemblies. Replaced with Toyota parts. No change in shimmy
3. Tires were rotated front to back. Any shake in the steering wheel went away completely. A noticeable reduction in the shimmy of the truck but it's not gone. It simply starts at higher speeds and is somewhat reduced. I can still feel it in the seat, et all.
4. O2 Sensors. I installed "Automatic" in the ODB2 port and had been tracking my mpg for a few weeks with some local and highway driving prior to the install.
http://www.automatic.com/
Pre O2 sensors I was tracking 8-10mpg local and hwy. After O2 Sensors I'm getting 12-13mpg highway and 9-10 on short local urban trips. This is an improvement if even slight.
The Automatic app has a bug and I failed to get a reading on a 250 mile return trip from Joshua Tree. I tracked 13mpg going there but there is a lot of up hill driving. On the return I'm pretty sure I was in the 14-15mpg range (based on total consumption) but I don't have the data. Long term use will bear out the average but I'm hoping for at least 14mpg. This is better so I'm happy! Real world range, which is what I care about, has gone up by 60-100 miles per tank (conservatively) which is fantastic. I'm also a lead foot on the highway averaging 70-80mph so that doesn't help.
As for Automatic. Not a lot of in-depth info but it's a cool app. They're hopefully adding real time mpg and more charts and graphs. It's super easy to use, plugged in and just worked. It just beeps at you if you're accelerating too fast, breaking too hard or going over 70mph. It also charts your trip and shows you on the map where you did any of those three things then averages your mpg. Once it has real time info and graphs you can review it'll be very very cool. Nice to track it on an ipad as well.
Lastly, the lift, As recomended I'm at 21" on the mark center hub to bottom of front fender.
So at this point I'm going after tires as the shimmy culprit. I have one guy telling me it can't be that, another telling me it's totally that - There's nothing really left so tires it is.
Any recommendations out there? I might get the cheapest POS non-offroad tires I can find just to trouble shoot but long term I'm looking at the Good Year MT/R Kevlar or good 'ol BFG's. I'm sure there's thoughts out there. I'm also in touch with Procomp to see if they're willing to do me a solid with some replacement test tires.
Thanks for everyone's help on this.
Dan
Before you get new tires, take your existing rig to a road force balancer and get the tires balanced on the rims. This should identify if you're really having an issue with a specific tire/rim or not. Not every tire shop has a roadforce balancer, so you may need to call around to find one:
http://www.hunter.com/balancer/roadforce/
I would do that before spending the money to replace all the tires which may or may not be on the problem.
http://www.hunter.com/balancer/roadforce/
I would do that before spending the money to replace all the tires which may or may not be on the problem.
- Thread starter
- #36
And just so I'm totally clear on this - A roadforce balance should be more accurate than an on-the-car high speed balance?
Three 100 Mudders right here in Santa Monica? Who know city folk like us liked the dirt so much.
- Thread starter
- #38
Haha - We should caravan! Always more fun in groups!
If they balanced on the car, then I think they were using road force. I would give them a call either way and find out exactly how they balanced the tires/rims. Here's break down of how road force is different then a standard tire/rim balancing shop:
http://blog.autosquad.com/road-force-balance/
Generally speaking road force balancing is really for high end type cars, that are going to be going 100+ mph hour on low profile rubber, but it can be used to detect a vibration problem in any set of tires. If a road force balancing doesn't detect any issues in your tires/rims then I would look elsewhere for the problem.
http://blog.autosquad.com/road-force-balance/
Generally speaking road force balancing is really for high end type cars, that are going to be going 100+ mph hour on low profile rubber, but it can be used to detect a vibration problem in any set of tires. If a road force balancing doesn't detect any issues in your tires/rims then I would look elsewhere for the problem.
- Thread starter
- #40
Yeah, I just talked to Jim at Baggie and Son's and he said the high speed on-the-car was equivalent to 60mph but he did say that a road force was different and potentially better as he had limitations to what he could do with a full time 4x4 set-up.
I found another shop with a road force balancer.... and it continues...
Dan
I found another shop with a road force balancer.... and it continues...
Dan