100 Caught fire & gas tank venting concerns (3 Viewers)

[socalmtbiker]

I had a similiar incidence a few 2 years ago when I was wheeling up Silver canyon several hours north in the White Mountains. Temps were in the 100s and there elevation went up to 11k. I filled up my tank prior. Going up the accent about 3/4 of the way I notice the smell of gas and by the time I reached the top my tank was hissing and gurgling. I opened it up to vent and some gas spurted out. I was lucky it was windy at the top otherwise the same might of happened to me. I waited till there was no pressure then made the descended back down. I had my charcoal cannister replaced and it was full of gas. I did notify the NTSB by filling out a form on their website.

A year later I attempted going up Coyote Flats in the the Eastern Sierras. I filled the tank up a little less than 3/4. temps about the same and I pulled an off road trailer up. This time I had no issues of pressure build up.

To me, there is a flaw in the design that wasn't caught. This is not the first I've heard of this issue when I searched when this happened to me. Probably the only thing I hate about this rig.

 

[Skidoo]

It is not necessarily a design flaw, as fuel has changed.
The Cruiser's fuel system was designed by engineers for the non ethanol fuel of the time.
The change to fuel was done by politicians. The politicians accepted a number of trade offs with ethanol fuel that are well documented.
You make the call where the flaw is.

 

[GDenver]

It is not necessarily a design flaw, as fuel has changed.
The Cruiser's fuel system was designed by engineers for the non ethanol fuel of the time.
The change to fuel was done by politicians. The politicians accepted a number of trade offs with ethanol fuel that are well documented.
You make the call where the flaw is.

I'm going to disagree with this. I had a new off the showroom floor 1999 Land cruiser in 1999, and it always shocked me how much pressure had built up in the tank every time I filled it up. Way more than normal, and way more than any other car I have owned. I'm going with design flaw. I live in Denver at elevation btw...

 

[AggieLC]

I ran over 12,000ft several times in Colorado a few months back. Pressure build up was tremendous. It was loud, didnt crack it though and didnt have any problems.

 

[nissanh]

I am about 1000 meters above sea level. All my cars have a vacuum inside the gas tanks whenever I go to fill up. I never experienced a pressure buildup in my corolla, 4runner and cruiser.

The vacuum is expected as gasoline is drawn into the engine, there is nothing to replace that volume inside the fuel system.

While I was driving my corolla on a hot summer day from Las Vegas to Kingman I noticed my gas tank was boiling.. yes it was boiling. Later I found two metal tubes running parallel and touching to each other. One carries coolant and the other carries gasoline return line. It is designed to heat up the gasoline, but this was the reason the gasoline is heating up. I by-passed the gasoline line from the coolant line and since then I have no problem. Perhaps the cruiser may have a similar setup.

 

[PADDO]

I am about 1000 meters above sea level. All my cars have a vacuum inside the gas tanks whenever I go to fill up. I never experienced a pressure buildup in my corolla, 4runner and cruiser.

The vacuum is expected as gasoline is drawn into the engine, there is nothing to replace that volume inside the fuel system.

While I was driving my corolla on a hot summer day from Las Vegas to Kingman I noticed my gas tank was boiling.. yes it was boiling. Later I found two metal tubes running parallel and touching to each other. One carries coolant and the other carries gasoline return line. It is designed to heat up the gasoline, but this was the reason the gasoline is heating up. I by-passed the gasoline line from the coolant line and since then I have no problem. Perhaps the cruiser may have a similar setup.

Our 100s/470s OE gas caps have a one way vacuum valve so makeup air can be drawn into the tank. Have a look in the center of your cap, you can suck air through but can’t blow it back out to atmosphere - if the valve is working as designed.

 

[nissanh]

^^^ Thanks! I'll check. I am sure it is not working

 

[blatant]

Our 100s/470s OE gas caps have a one way vacuum valve so makeup air can be drawn into the tank. Have a look in the center of your cap, you can suck air through but can’t blow it back out to atmosphere - if the valve is working as designed.

I know changing the cap is a popular main't item on these older trucks. If the cap is not working as it should with the one way valve, will it throw a code?

 

[TonyP]

During the 200 series meet up earlier this year we asked one of the toyota guys (who were in charge of testing the 200 series while in development) about the bubbling fuel. He basically said, his LCs do it also, and don't worry about it, let the system purge itself. Most of us 200 guys had fuel bubbling/spilling/vapor "issues" in Moab.

 

[Skidoo]

I'm going to disagree with this. I had a new off the showroom floor 1999 Land cruiser in 1999, and it always shocked me how much pressure had built up in the tank every time I filled it up. Way more than normal, and way more than any other car I have owned. I'm going with design flaw. I live in Denver at elevation btw...

Colorado, Denver area in particular, was running wide scale pilot programs and mandating ethanol in fuel well before 1999. Maybe what you were seeing, maybe not. There was a lot of push back by auto manufacturers but politicians decided try it. Cars didn't breakdown on the roads so politicians declared it a win.

 

[1meancruiser]

Colorado, Denver area in particular, was running wide scale pilot programs and mandating ethanol in fuel well before 1999. Maybe what you were seeing, maybe not. There was a lot of push back by auto manufacturers but politicians decided try it. Cars didn't breakdown on the roads so politicians declared it a win.

Skidoo, I'm really sorry to hear what happened to you. Thank God no one was hurt! I believe you should report this to Toyota. It seems to be an ongoing problem, This should be a recall by Toyota. There are too many reported claims on this forum alone for this to be considered an "accident".

Or possibly starting a poll on this forum to see how many people have had this vapor lock/fuel boiling issue. And forwarding the results to toyota.

 

[Skidoo]

This fire did not happen to me. I do have an interest in venting issues as I do quite a bit of offroading at high elevation.

 

[Live to Ski]

? I did see in a previous response the idea of temporarily switching out gas cap to one that is open to atmosphere. Could this not be an option for us? maybe a vapor only passage that would prevent fuel egress?

I am totally ignorant on how this might affect the engine/emissions system.

 

[abuck99]

Wonder if the 200’s have reported the same problems with the fuel tank pressure issue?

The EVAP system issues seem to be most prevalent with newer 100s with the charcoal cannister in the spare tire location. What Im curious to know from original owners, did they experience the fuel tank vapor pressure issue at any point while under factory warranty, or did this problem develop with age?

‭‭Ethanol or not, the system should function correctly for the useful life of the vehicle to manage fuel vapor pressure and if not should throw a code to indicate where the malfunction is. I think if its a safety or EPA compliance issue Toyota would be obligated to fix it out of warranty and not left to the consumer to figure it out. Big liability imo.

 

[PADDO]

I know changing the cap is a popular main't item on these older trucks. If the cap is not working as it should with the one way valve, will it throw a code?

There isn’t a specific “gas cap vacuum valve fail” code as such. Rather, the EVAP/emmisions system relies on expected vacuums and pressures, purging cycles, readiness test etc and the gas cap main gasket/vacuum valve are all part of the system. The requirement to inspect the gas cap, ensure it’s genuine OE and it’s correctly fitted features pretty heavily in the engine evap diagnostics, so it’s pretty safe to say that if the cap isn’t allowing the system to hold the expected vacuum or it’s open and not holding expected pressure you’ll get codes, maybe a P0442 or 456 (leak detected or very small leak detected) just to get started.

 

[abuck99]

The cap has some sort of check valve in it- To vent excess pressure- Ive heard mine(new oem cap) releasing pressure- its a strange sound- like a diaphragm vibrating noise.

 

[1meancruiser]

This fire did not happen to me. I do have an interest in venting issues as I do quite a bit of offroading at high elevation.

Got it. My misunderstanding. I'll see if i get some free time and i'll post a survey on this forum.

 

[GDenver]

Colorado, Denver area in particular, was running wide scale pilot programs and mandating ethanol in fuel well before 1999. Maybe what you were seeing, maybe not. There was a lot of push back by auto manufacturers but politicians decided try it. Cars didn't breakdown on the roads so politicians declared it a win.

Skidoo, I'm really sorry to hear what happened to you. Thank God no one was hurt! I believe you should report this to Toyota. It seems to be an ongoing problem, This should be a recall by Toyota. There are too many reported claims on this forum alone for this to be considered an "accident".

Or possibly starting a poll on this forum to see how many people have had this vapor lock/fuel boiling issue. And forwarding the results to toyota.

Totally possible that Colorado started experimented with ethanol, but I have 3 cars currently converted to E85 to make more power(e85 makes the same power as 114 octane leaded race gas in my situation back to back on the dyno) that were never intended to run any ethanol, and I have never had excessive pressure build up in those cars. I just don't see it happening from 10% ethanol or less.

 

[aging fleet]

Wonder if the 200’s have reported the same problems with the fuel tank pressure issue?

Yes they are, see @TonyP 's post above. They asked the Toyota rep about it at LCDC 2017 and didn't get much of an answer.

 

[Julian Stead]

As I am aware, there are 2 different types of design for this system, an early and a later version. Are they both problematic?