1/4 eplitcal suspension???
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Eskimo
SILVER Star
I wanna play! 
To Fullsize and Bustanut, I would also like to see the info Mace asked about, I just bought the JD2 bender and have been pricing pipe and tube. 2" x .120 DOM tubing is almost double what schedule 40 pipe is. Is it really worth the difference? And why? Speaking for rollcages and such.
From a cage standpoint, there isn't an event tech sheet out there that will approve Sched 40 pipe for a cage....HREW, DOM, etc are it. Pipe is strong for sliders and such, but I wouldn't trust it for a cage. (Price is double, but my life has been worth the expense....)
For link work, Sched 80 can work just fine, but I have one lower arm that's bent now, and it's .4375 wall (HREW inner with a .095 DOM oversleeve - only 1.5" OD tho)
I'm going with 2" solid alum for my next set of lowers....
From a link stand point, I wouldn't make the lowers any less than 36" eye-to-eye to help minimize rear steer issues. I would keep the lowers as parallel to the ground as you can (ie: frame side just under frame, axle side at the same plane as the axle centerline) to minimize "drive under" tendencies during steep climbs.
"ANY" half ass link suspension can work in the boulders....no rocket science there. It's on the climbs that a well designed suspension will stand out.
For link work, Sched 80 can work just fine, but I have one lower arm that's bent now, and it's .4375 wall (HREW inner with a .095 DOM oversleeve - only 1.5" OD tho)
I'm going with 2" solid alum for my next set of lowers....
From a link stand point, I wouldn't make the lowers any less than 36" eye-to-eye to help minimize rear steer issues. I would keep the lowers as parallel to the ground as you can (ie: frame side just under frame, axle side at the same plane as the axle centerline) to minimize "drive under" tendencies during steep climbs.
"ANY" half ass link suspension can work in the boulders....no rocket science there. It's on the climbs that a well designed suspension will stand out.
Mace said:I wanted fullsize to tell me
He seems to know that it is a horrible thing to build out of poop pipe..
I want to know why....
i'm not saying poo pipe is horrible, one of my buddies (ref. green '40, RIP) well 2 parties were involved but thats not the point, rolled 4 or maybe it was 5 time.... on a poo pipe cage.... and it saved the drivers life
i'm pretty sure that particular roll would have deformed or mangled any type of tube, pipe,DOM, HREW or anything.. it was nastyso technically the cage worked, but it was destroyed... BUT IT WORKED... ok? ya got it out of me, it worked and it worked well
i wonder what DOM tube would have done, granted this roll was a worst case scenario, you really dont rolll much worse than this truck it.. and the cage survived....on poo pipe
poo pipe does work
NOW....... links
its been a while since i've looked at Cam's truck (maybe a couple weeks) but he hasn't made any real progress on it, he said something about no money, which i can totally relate to. his links didnt appear to be 1.5" they looked smaller, maybe my old age is catchin up to me
tube is designed for structural loads, pipe is designed for pressure loads so to me, this is one area where tube would be much more desirable since you have tension, compression, and all sorts of weird side loads ie. rocks.
prove me wrong with the loads, now i've been runnin my mouth...er..... keyboard, prove me wrong...
lets see pics of sch. 40 links
Last edited:
Fullsizeyota said:
I am not talking about a cage. I am referring to your comment that pipe is not suitable for links....
I want to know why. And no, I will not prove you wrong little man. If you want to get on the internet and spew info that you have no personal knowledge of (forgive me if I am wrong ) you better at least have a bit of background or readin.
If you want to recommend that Cam increase the OD of his links that is another subject. But you were complaining that pipe (not even designating what type of pipe) is a poor choice for links. I want to know why pipe is significantly worse than tubing of the same wall thickness and OD. Is it cause it is made differently? Please tell us.
If you want to help then please do. But don't regurgitate internet info that you read once thinking it is gospel.....
From my standpoint lower links need to be at least 2" OD and .250 wall to be effective. And even those links can be bent. Considerable strength is gained from larger diameter tubing. You did bring a good point up about strength of mounts/etc. Over build the mounts. You can make the mounts lighter if you really know what you are doing but lacking the design experience it is a MUCH better idea just to overbuild things to make sure they don't break...
Cam, keep building, refining and researching what you want to get out of a rig. Then you will be fine. Besides, you can always fine tune things after you get it rolling.
Franky40 said:
Use HERW, I was able to get a good deal on this tubing, and I only have around $200-250 of tube in my cage. A-pillar is DOM though.
quick pic
I cannot recommend using pipe for any cage, it would require far too heavy a design for = strength. The thing you need know about sch pipe is that it is measured in nominal sizes. The OD of 2" NOM sch 40 is actually 2.375" so it will not work well with your nice bender. 1.5" NOM sch 40 is 1.9 OD. I'm not sure if you can get true to size sch pipe, but at my work we receive NOM sizes. Tube is measured and true to OD sizes
I'm having trouble coming up with those numbers, I thought tensile strength was clearly sated in our sizing selection and it isn't really. I'll hunt around a little more if I have a chance.
what mace said, dom is hrew before the (drawn-over-mandrel) process.
try this link... some of the local boys discussing... its a ton of readin so saddle up
http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=2886
http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=2886
woody said:
any particular reason for this?
i never compared DOM to PIPE directly.. i never said given X and X pipe is X under strength....
i said people use LARGER DOM tube than the PIPE he is using..
eskimo said:
so according to this statement, his pipe *should* be larger than DOM tube to make up the difference, right? he's using 1.5" pipe.
i agree with eskimo, there seems to be somewhat of a standard among linked trucks that i've seen, like mentioned, they are usually 1.75-2" links. i dont care how big you build them, you could built it out of 4" tube someone would break it, also some guys drive really easy and could get away with 1" tube (i'm sarcastic) i'm just saying this to demonstrate the diffrence between how you drive...
look at alan (franky40) he's got a 350, 700R4 with 38's... broken (correct me alan) 1 coarse rear pinion....
i've got a friend with 400SBC and 35's blown 3 birfields (unlocked) blown 2 pinions, and blown bolts out of one transfer case and litterally blew a second one in half. along with i dont know how many driveline u-joints....
eskimo said, 1.75-2" is common and thats with tube. if you want the same strength out of pipe, you need a larger diameter...
if your looking for exact pipe PSI and ultimate strength loads, your s*** out of luck becuase i'm too lazy to look them up. so i guess if this means you've won becuase i dont have exact numbers, well whatever
There is a PILE of reading available at http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-BV60/index1a.html on steel materials....
In general/simplest terms, the welded seam of water pipe is inconsistent enough to be considered a significant weak point in the material.
"Contnuous (butt welded) pipe process.
The continuous process produces a full range of pipe sizes from only a few different widths of skelp. The coils of skelp, or strip, are fed into the mill and their ends welded together to provide a continuous flow. The strip passes through a pre-heater and into a furnace. The heated strip is shaped into an arc of about 270° in a forming stand before passing into the welding stand. There a nozzle applies oxygen to the edges to further heat them as they are pressed and welded together. The pipe's OD and wall thickness are reduced in a stretch-reducing mill. Pipe is then cut to length, reduced to the required size in a sizing mill and water-cooled before being straightened. It is then ready for finishing "
"Typical Electric Resistance Welded tube process
Steel strip is unwound from coils and side-trimmed to control width and condition the edges for welding. The strip then passes through a series of contoured rolls which progressively cold-form it into a circular shape. The edges are forced together under pressure and welded by heating the steel to temperatures between 2200° F and 2600° F using copper contacts or coil induction. Weld flash is removed from the the inside and outside surfaces of the newly-formed pipe, and the weld zone is heat treated to ensure homogeneity between the base metal and weld. The weld is subjected to in-line nondestructive testing, and the tube then passes through a series of sizing rolls to attain its precise finished diameter. It is then straightened and cut to the desired finished length.
DOM tube being constructed, starting as ERW and then being drawn over a mandrel.
The manufacturing process for DOM tubing begins with coils of steel, which are slit to the proper width for the desired tube size. The strip is cold formed and passed through an electric resistance welder which joins the edges together, under pressure, to complete the tubular shape. After testing the weld's integrity, the tubing is cut to length for further processing"
"Q: Is pipe only for plumbing?
A: Certainly not. In fact, the word "pipe" is often grossly misused. It is, of course, not a designation of any particular product or material, and therefore confers no meaning in terms of any particular mechanical properties (strength, ductility, impact resistance, etc.) Pipe is a type of steel tube, usually intended to convey liquid or gas. I say usually because, in the construction industry, material labelled "pipe" is frequently used in the construction of bridges, buildings, oil rigs etc. Pipe, like any steel tube comes in various grades and conditions - some quite suitable for building 4x4 parts, and some not at all - just like other steel products. You have to know what you're dealing with, what its condition is, and what its properties are before you can decide. Here is some comparative data on one common type of pipe, though again, it is in no way representative of all "pipe"
The ASTM A-53 spec is the American Society for Testing and Materials specification that covers seamless and welded steel pipe intended for mechanical and pressure applications, including ordinary uses in steam, water, gas, and air lines. Note that it says "mechanical applications" whcih means building things. Also note that the yield strength of this most common type of pipe is 30,000-35,000 compared to 32,000-40,000 psi for common 1010 ERW, CREW, and HREW compared to 70,000 psi for 1020 DOM and 90,000 psi for 4130 Cr-Mo DOM."
"Industry publications will list pages of tables of these "standard" dimensions. For example. A 1" pipe will have an OD of 1.315" and a wall thickness depending on its schedule as follows.
Schedule 40 - 0.133
Schedule 80 - 0.179
Schedule 160 - .250"
In general/simplest terms, the welded seam of water pipe is inconsistent enough to be considered a significant weak point in the material.
"Contnuous (butt welded) pipe process.
The continuous process produces a full range of pipe sizes from only a few different widths of skelp. The coils of skelp, or strip, are fed into the mill and their ends welded together to provide a continuous flow. The strip passes through a pre-heater and into a furnace. The heated strip is shaped into an arc of about 270° in a forming stand before passing into the welding stand. There a nozzle applies oxygen to the edges to further heat them as they are pressed and welded together. The pipe's OD and wall thickness are reduced in a stretch-reducing mill. Pipe is then cut to length, reduced to the required size in a sizing mill and water-cooled before being straightened. It is then ready for finishing "
"Typical Electric Resistance Welded tube process
Steel strip is unwound from coils and side-trimmed to control width and condition the edges for welding. The strip then passes through a series of contoured rolls which progressively cold-form it into a circular shape. The edges are forced together under pressure and welded by heating the steel to temperatures between 2200° F and 2600° F using copper contacts or coil induction. Weld flash is removed from the the inside and outside surfaces of the newly-formed pipe, and the weld zone is heat treated to ensure homogeneity between the base metal and weld. The weld is subjected to in-line nondestructive testing, and the tube then passes through a series of sizing rolls to attain its precise finished diameter. It is then straightened and cut to the desired finished length.
DOM tube being constructed, starting as ERW and then being drawn over a mandrel.
The manufacturing process for DOM tubing begins with coils of steel, which are slit to the proper width for the desired tube size. The strip is cold formed and passed through an electric resistance welder which joins the edges together, under pressure, to complete the tubular shape. After testing the weld's integrity, the tubing is cut to length for further processing"
"Q: Is pipe only for plumbing?
A: Certainly not. In fact, the word "pipe" is often grossly misused. It is, of course, not a designation of any particular product or material, and therefore confers no meaning in terms of any particular mechanical properties (strength, ductility, impact resistance, etc.) Pipe is a type of steel tube, usually intended to convey liquid or gas. I say usually because, in the construction industry, material labelled "pipe" is frequently used in the construction of bridges, buildings, oil rigs etc. Pipe, like any steel tube comes in various grades and conditions - some quite suitable for building 4x4 parts, and some not at all - just like other steel products. You have to know what you're dealing with, what its condition is, and what its properties are before you can decide. Here is some comparative data on one common type of pipe, though again, it is in no way representative of all "pipe"
The ASTM A-53 spec is the American Society for Testing and Materials specification that covers seamless and welded steel pipe intended for mechanical and pressure applications, including ordinary uses in steam, water, gas, and air lines. Note that it says "mechanical applications" whcih means building things. Also note that the yield strength of this most common type of pipe is 30,000-35,000 compared to 32,000-40,000 psi for common 1010 ERW, CREW, and HREW compared to 70,000 psi for 1020 DOM and 90,000 psi for 4130 Cr-Mo DOM."
"Industry publications will list pages of tables of these "standard" dimensions. For example. A 1" pipe will have an OD of 1.315" and a wall thickness depending on its schedule as follows.
Schedule 40 - 0.133
Schedule 80 - 0.179
Schedule 160 - .250"
Fullsizeyota said:
Are you sure about that???
How is pipe made?
How is HREW made?
And what are they made out of????
This is what I am saying.
I never saw a spec on what he built his links out of. It could be Chromo for all I know.
You blasted him for using pipe when you really have no idea what the strength of pipe is. But you have heard of people criticizing others for the use of pipe and figured it was good to beat on someone else with.
I have a buddy with an exo built out of 1.5" PIPE. He rolled the s*** out of that thing at last years jambo over and over again. It held up a lot better than most of the tube exo's did..
I don't want to win. I would much rather have all of this out in the open so that actual facts on suspensions/motors/building materials is well documented and the myths so common in this world are dismissed..
If you want to be mean, then please do, but back it up by facts, not hearsay....
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Poor fella, sorry about the hi jack.
Now lets see some close ups of Proffits rear 1/4.
Now lets see some close ups of Proffits rear 1/4.
- Thread starter
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I Kinda Like Hi-Jacks Then They Get Into Detial, I Love All The Info
