Couple of questions regarding my tranny.. (1 Viewer)

Hey.. I've been reading this board for a couple years, and just now finally registered myself (yes I am that lame). There has been much information regarding cruisers of all types here, and I thanks for all the help that it has been.. I've been hanging out alot more in the 80 series forum for the past 6 months or so.. I have a couple of questions about my 1996 FJZ80 (80k miles) that have been bugging me since I bought it (in August). And, before I get any further, I want to clarify that I have done my share of searching this forum on both of these topics for months on end, and have been almost afraid to even post my questions after reading some of the flaming that has gone down on a few poor fellows.. Anyways, my first problem is this strange chugging noise (sounds just like a train, and no I dont think its because its a inline 6) I get from the motor (I think it's the motor) when the transmission (A343F) just shifts into overdrive at about 45 to 50 mph, and the acceleration is slow. If I push the pedal and kick it down it goes away, just the same as if I turn overdrive off. If I aggressively accelerate through that range it seems more rumbly then smoothes back out at about 60. I bought the cruiser last August. The u-joints are all tite as could be. I have done all synthetic oil changes since I bought it.. The plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and pcv valve were changed right after I bought it. I replaced the EGR modulator with the new blue one to cure the P0401 I used to have. I removed the throttlebody and cleaned it really good a few months back. This problem has persisted since I purchased it and nothing has helped aleviate it. I've thought that maybe the trannys shift point between those two gears might be wrong, as I can accelerate up to 60 with overdrive off, then switch it on with no problems (but that sucks, and I'm anal).

The other problem is sometimes when in 1st gear ,then braking gently, then applying the gas again, usually ends up slamming the transmission into 2nd extremely hard (way, way too hard). Again, I have searched over and over with no real clue to this other than people saying that these tranny's shift a little wierd between 1st and 2nd because of the ecu controlling the transmission (my case isnt wierd, its freaking wrong).I have also heard a few guys talk about adjusting the tv cable and the tps. I have adjusted the tv cable (kickdown cable) hundreds of times (according to FSM), along with the throttle cable. I have adjusted the tps sensor several times (according to FSM), and even gone through all the FSM tests to assure it works accordingly and has no "flat spots". Ive checked and had checked the drivelines and u-joints. I have even checked my throttle cable and kickdown cable for binding. Both of these two problems have been bugging the crap out of me (as much as I love this cruiser), not to mention the ever so common start-up rattle thing... lol... On top of it, My friends '91 3fe seems to run alot fauking smoother, with twice the miles, and dosn't have the common tamborine whistle thing!!.. Any suggestions would be awesome, til then..

Welcome, and great handle. I can't believe someone didn't take it, yet.

Sounds like you've done a lot of things to find the issue, but I'm surprised you have not mentioned changing the fluid and seeing what comes out. I'd be very interested in draining the fluid into a clean glass container to smell it for burning, look at it for water ingress, etc. I'd also have the tranny pan dropped and the reusable screen cleaned and ask the mechanic to show you the pan before he touches it so you can get a picture of the accumulated sludge. As an anal move, call a Caterpillar dealer and see if they offer fluid analysis for your transmission fluid to see if there's excess bearing materals, etc in it.

Having said all that, the chugging noise sounds suspiciously like an exhaust issue - is it a stock exhaust? I'd take a bright flashlight and examine the entire exhaust system from manifold to rear bumper for interference with anything (wear spots), leaks, or broken hangers. That type of rythmic booming/humming sound is a classic exhaust issue.

The harsh shift issue needs to be examined more, and the fluid may tell you something. Any idea what dealer it was sold through originally, or serviced at before you got it? If so, call all the dealers in the town it's' from and give them the VIN to see if they have any service records on it that may give you info on the issue.

DougM

Thanks Doug! I have checked and changed the fluids several times. My front and rear diff fluid didnt look good, but I have changed them several times since the purchase. I have Mobile 1 synthetic in the t-case and motor, and dino in the front and rear (as I've been trying to flush the old crap out). The tranny has been flushed once and has had two quarts changed since then. Never seemed discolored or burnt. It may be an exaust issue, another friend of mine suggested that.. I do have the stock exaust, and recently started hearing that damn tamborine whistle everyone talks about. *sigh* Sometimes I dread getting on here, because I'll read something then notice my faucking cruiser is doing it too!!!

"problem is sometimes when in 1st gear ,then braking gently, then applying the gas again, usually ends up slamming the transmission into 2nd extremely hard (way, way too hard). "

Have you considered the NSS?

I have not heard of the NSS?
So, I did a search and found "Nuetral Safety Switch".. Duh.. Sounds like I better check it out and make sure there isnt coolant corrosion on it. Could this cause a shifting problem, like I'm encountering?

You mentioned using only two quarts on the the tranny; it might be too low. From my experience with mine in four quick drain & refills (approx. 30 min.), an average of 4 quarts of ATF is used - same amount has been reported with many others having the same transmission. The symptoms you have pretty much describe it.

Frank.

Ive checked the tranny fluid many times, and it seems to be fine.. Never been low.. When I changed the two quarts I checked the level again and adjusted it where it needed to be (with the engine at idle). I just drained two quarts out with the engine off (I think the tranny holds like 11 quarts, but only about 2 quarts drain out when engines off). This cruiser has always had these symptoms, even before the tranny flush (at oilcan henry's, which I wont do again), and me swapping 2 more quarts out. Who knows.. Maybe I'm getting a false reading..

Land Bruiser said:

Ive checked the tranny fluid many times, and it seems to be fine.. Never been low.. When I changed the two quarts I checked the level again and adjusted it where it needed to be (with the engine at idle). I just drained two quarts out with the engine off (I think the tranny holds like 11 quarts, but only about 2 quarts drain out when engines off). This cruiser has always had these symptoms, even before the tranny flush (at oilcan henry's, which I wont do again), and me swapping 2 more quarts out. Who knows.. Maybe I'm getting a false reading..

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I have the same 1 - 2 shift problem.

I've adjusted the Kick down cable till it's sloppy lose and I can softly peddle around the 1 - 2 shift problem. I've just recently noticed that my reverse lights and dash shift lights don't work anymore, my mech. said for me to order a NSS for the rear lights.

Maybe everyone of my transmission problems are tied together = NSS?

FWIW many times I've drained ~ 8 qts out of the transmission 4 in the first 1 hour drain and ~4 more overnight.

I too have adjusted the kickdown cable till the point of it being sloppy loose, and it helps, but just covers the problem. Backing the TPS helps a little too, but makes the cruiser shift wierd. I am going to do some more investigation on the NSS.... The thing that makes me not think its the NSS is the fact that I dont have any wierd light issues, or starting issues like everybody else. But like I said, I dont want to leave any one rock unturned... This is very frustrating.....

Land Bruiser,

It might be time to let an expert have a look. My suggestion would be to take it to a trusted Toyota dealer and have them do an automatic transmission service including a fluid replacement, screen cleaning, and cable adjustments.

-B-

I also wanted to mention, with the 1st to 2nd shift thing, that if I ease into the throttle (when I say ease, I mean really, really softly) it will shiftt into second no problem (like it should). The same applies to starting from a stop and just accelerating through the gears, although I can stomp on it with no problems this way. It only happens when hitting the brake around second gear (sometimes kicking down from second, sometimes being in the top end of 1st) or letting off on the gas for a second then reapplying it (If I stomp it, it feels like the tranny is going to rip off). It seems to happen when someone turns in front of me and I have to brake for a brief second, then try to continue. It dosnt happen through any of the other gears...

Beowolf... I have definately considered going to the stealership, but the one here where I live scares me oh so bad... No offense to anyone reading this, but they dont seem to know there ass from a hole in the ground. I had a P0401 light last summer, they tried to convince me it was the EGR valve, and VSV.. I fixed it by replacing the modulator with the blue one (thanks to this board). My startup rattle they tried to tell me is the valves needing to be adjusted (which we all know is not true)... Im just not sure if I can trust a word coming from these monkey's mouths... Im too the point, where I dont want anyone else to touch this fauking thing, unless they know and have worked on 80 series... I would like to do the work myself, as I feel mechanically apt to do so, but I am to the point where I'm getting desperate. Does anyone know of a good 80 series mechanic in the Salem/Portland, Oregon area? lol..

It sounds to me based on your description of the problem,that you may be expieriencing what is known as converter chuggle. Does your rig shift into OD at 45 or 50 at light ,medium or heavy throttle. If your OD shift is occurring at 50 uder light to moderate throttle pressure I would think that your throttle cable is adjusted to tighly. This would also explain a harsh downshift.

You can disengage the torque converter by lightly applying the brake, just a light steady pressure on the pedal. Do not apply so much pressure that you feel braking. Disengaging the torque converter should yield approximately 200 RPM,s. When you accelerate and yours shift occurs, feeling the chuggle apply the light steady pressure to the brake pedal and see if it disappears.

Good Luck, let me know what happens

Matt

Land Bruiser said:

I also wanted to mention, with the 1st to 2nd shift thing, that if I ease into the throttle (when I say ease, I mean really, really softly) it will shiftt into second no problem (like it should). The same applies to starting from a stop and just accelerating through the gears, although I can stomp on it with no problems this way. It only happens when hitting the brake around second gear (sometimes kicking down from second, sometimes being in the top end of 1st) or letting off on the gas for a second then reapplying it (If I stomp it, it feels like the tranny is going to rip off). It seems to happen when someone turns in front of me and I have to brake for a brief second, then try to continue. It dosnt happen through any of the other gears...

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Just so we are on the same page, this problem occurs around <10 mph?

I feel that you are correct in avoiding a Toyota dealership. I've taken mine to 3 different ones for this problem and it was a waste of money in every case. Cable adjustments, TPS, fluid changes...., all that’s left is surfing this web page.

After seeing all the adjustments and TB cleaning that people do I surprised that more people DON’T report this fault, this leads me to believe that this isn’t a simple cable/TPS adjustment.

Like you, I'm at the end of my rope. At least I'm not alone, but your description is eerily similar. If you solve this problem please report it back.

BTW what year is your transmission?

I had this problpem quite some time ago. Back then I also had erratic idling (tach fluctuating) as well as erratic idle rpm. I've done alot since then and now with the engine running properly the issue has gone.

What this means, I"m not sure, but I beleive the new trannies work in unison with the motor to provide smoother shifting and longer life by lowering engine output during shifts. It may also work when downshifting.

So how are your engines running. Mine now is rock steady at 600 rpms. No stumble at all but a slight harshness to it .

Ultimauk... Yes, it does occur at 10 MPH.. For the record, my motor runs like a top.. I even bought a OBDII scanner and went through the service manuals specs. Everything seems to be within the ranges specified, and the idle is dead on at 650 RPM's...

Land Bruiser said:

Ultimauk... Yes, it does occur at 10 MPH.. For the record, my motor runs like a top.. I even bought a OBDII scanner and went through the service manuals specs. Everything seems to be within the ranges specified, and the idle is dead on at 650 RPM's...

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Great!

We are on the exact same 10 mph page.

My engine is also running great and my Idle is at a steady 700 RPMs.

Another interesting point is we have 2 different transmissions, mine is a 442 and I think yours is a 343, but we have the exact same problem.

I would love for someone to print/post from a EWD where the wires for the NSS go to/from. and I'm embarrassed to say, but where is the NSS located on a 442 transmission?

Engine idle spec is 600. This might be where your problem lies.

My FSM states the the idle should be 650 rpm + or - 50 rpms...