Lubing propeller shaft Risky (AKA Drive Shaft)

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2001LC

2001LC

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Lubing propeller shaft (AKA Drive Shaft) Tight seals may cause Hydro Lock

Lubing with NLGI #1Grease; Manufacture recommends NLGI #2

Has anyone here tried this, have any opinion or can offer knowledgably comments on using this lighter #1 grease for this application?:confused:

My concern is: will the NLGI #1 give me sufficient shear protection:confused:

I’m using: Amsoil MP synthetic lithium complex grease EP fortified GC LB NLGI #1, Mobil 1 NLGI #2 for U-joints & wheel bearings

A little background of why I used this #1 grease::crybaby:

I had finally gotten around to lubing my U-joints and sleeve’s on the front and rear PShaft (Propeller Shaft, AKA Driver Shaft) while doing my 90,000 mile maintenance, well closer to 100,000 miles. I noticed the PShaft sleeve yoke kept extending but no grease was coming out around the seal, I pump and pump that NLGI #2 lithium grease in until finally a small amount of old grease followed by a small amount of new grease started coming out around the seams of the metal plate in the end of the shaft (the pocket of the sleeve yoke) then just a bit from around the seal, but only after extending the yoke a great deal more than one would think was advisable. This was the front shaft the rear extended much more without any grease coming out. I became concerned about the amount of pressure on the bearing of the transfer case and differential’s even more so once I read a thread in FAQ under 100-series Cruiser titled:

Lubing the Driveshafts: too much grease?

So I pulled the front PShaft and cleaned it, while spending about and hour and half cleaning I came up with the idea of using NLGI # 1 grease, to see if it would flow better. Most of the grease I cleaned out was what I put in 1000 miles ago, not much old grease in their (probably not lubed in 70,000 miles if at all) I followed the manual (except I used NLGI #1 grease) and applied greased to the propeller shaft spline and sleeve yoke surface during assembly. Found it necessary to remove the grease zerk to alleviate the pressure before I could slide the yoke in. the manual then said to install the PShaft and pump in grease until it begins to flow. I decide to fill this with grease on the bench, placing the PShaft between to concert structures with wooden blocks on each end for protection. I pump until grease started flowing out the cup end of the sleeve yoke then the seal. I’m sure I put much more than 500lb of pressure on the assembly before any grease came out, good thing I did this off the TLC. I then pump in grease to extend the PShaft (1 inch short) short of the length I needed to install, I did this to make install easier and create a void to help the grease flow and the sleeve yoke compress the inch or so easier during operation on the road. I extending the yoke the last inch or so by hand, applied thread lock and tighten the nuts to spec 59 ft lb.

I have not done the rear Propeller Shaft yet, when I do, I plan on leaving at least a 2 inch void and kept the weight of the vehicle on the rear axle so that the rear PShaft will be in the most neutral compressed position I can get it in during install of the PShaft.

I will wait until I hear from all the great people on this board, before I decide on which grease I use in the rear Propeller shaft AKA rear Driver shaft and if I leave the NLGI #1 in the front or not.

THX From Colorado
2001LC
 
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oh welcome to 'mud anyways. Seems like you have been a lurker for a while and even know how to use the search function maybe! heres your official welcoming salute :flipoff2: !
 
....
2001LC said:
Lubing propeller shaft (AKA Drive Shaft)
With NLGI #1Grease; Manufacture recommends NLGI #2

Has anyone here tried this, have any opinion or can offer and knowledgably comments on using this lighter #1 grease for this application?:confused:

My concern is: will the NLGI #1 give my sufficient shear protection:confused:

I’m using: MP Amsoil synthetic lithium complex grease EP fortified GC LB NLGI #1 (the same grease I have for the thrust bushing and roller bearing for the front axles of my 2001 Toyota Land Cruiser (The manual recommends lithium SOAP base for the thrust bushing, this was the closest I could find)

A little background of why I used this #1 grease::crybaby:

I had finally gotten around to lubing my U-joints and sleeve’s on the front and rear PShaft (Propeller Shaft, AKA Driver Shaft) while doing my 90,000 mile maintenance, well closer to 100,000 miles. I noticed the shaft yoke kept extending but no grease was coming out around the seal, I pump and pump that NLGI #2 lithium grease in until finally a small amount of old grease followed by a small amount of new grease started coming out around the seams of the metal plate in the end of the shaft (the pocket of the sleeve yoke) then just a bit from around the seal, but only after extending the yoke a great deal more than one would think was advisable. This was the front shaft the rear extended much more without any grease coming out. I became concerned about the amount of pressure on the bearing of the transfer case and differential’s even more so once I read a thread in FAQ under 100-series Cruiser titled:

Lubing the Driveshafts: too much grease?


https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=175506

So I pulled the front PShaft and cleaned it, while spending about and hour and half cleaning I came up with the idea of using NLGI # 1 grease, to see if it would flow better. Most of the grease I cleaned out was what I put in 1000 miles ago, not much old grease in their (probably not lubed in 70,000 miles if at all) I followed the manual (except I used NLGI #1 grease) and applied greased to the propeller shaft spline and sleeve yoke surface during assembly. Found it necessary to remove the grease zerk to alleviate the pressure before I could slide the yoke in. the manual then said to install the PShaft and pump in grease until it begins to flow. I decide to fill this with grease on the bench, placing the PShaft between to concert structures with wooden blocks on each end for protection. I pump until grease started flowing out the cup end of the sleeve yoke then the seal. I’m sure I put much more than 500lb of pressure on the assembly before any grease came out, glade I did this off the TLC. I then pump in grease until I was within 1 inch or more short of the length I needed to install, I did this to make install easier and create a void to help the grease flow and the sleeve yoke compress the inch or so easier during operation on the road. I extending the yoke the last inch or so by hand, applied thread lock and tighten the nuts to spec 59 ft lb.

I have not done the rear Propeller Shaft yet, when I do, I plan on leaving at least a 2 inch void and kept the weight of the vehicle on the rear axle so that the rear PShaft will be in the most compressed position I can get it in during install of the PShaft.

I will wait until I hear from all the great people on this board, before I decide on which grease I use in the rear Propeller shaft AKA rear Driver shaft and if I leave it in the front or not.

THX From Colorado
2001LC
Click to expand...

It's got me beat why people post like this, I have removed all the color and font on this, I have done it before, maybe on the same document???
 
1loudLX said:
well your going to have to make the font white for me to even read this post.
Click to expand...

Phew !

Glad its not me ! ( for a second there, I thought I had lost some kind of retinal ability) ;p
 
Mate,
It would take me longer to read your post, than to hit my splines with 3 shots of APXT - like I do every service.
Hope this helps.

Matt
 
Its a tacky Lithium complex grease, also for Unis and wheel bearings, from Castrol.
It is very common in Australia.

Cheers

Matt
 
I use the purple Moly Amsoil to do my drive shafts. Never a problem in 10 years.
 
I've also used the amsoil purple moly and Valvoline moly NLGI 2 grease on the 4runner driveshaft, no issues yet after 21 yrs (FSM calls for MP grease). Ditto for the front hubs....still the original Koyo bearings at 205K mi. Local toyota dealer uses a moly grease for front bearing repacks. I've been running M1 MP grease on the 100. Personally, I don't think it matters whether you use M1, Valvoline, Amsoil, royal purple, or any leading brand. It's probably more important that if the grease in there is lithium-based, the new grease you use should also be.
 
THX Jim,

I have read some very interesting reports on moly having restorative properties.

See: Reduces Wear http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/gearoiltest.htm

I appreciate you sharing your long term experience. Do you use NLGI #2 on the front axle thrust bushing and roller bearings?
 
please remove posts 13-18 and learn to use the "multi-qoute" option.


As far as what lubes i use, whatever can be found at the local pharmacy, only water based as oil based isnt good for internal use. Oh wait you mean on the 100? Whatever the dealership uses as they have done the services for the last 8 years. Going to be getting into doing my own services as the warranty is now up.
 
2001LC said:
Jim' Are you seeing any old grease come out the seals in the shafts when you lub?
Click to expand...

Yes for the U-joint zerks. I stop when I just see old grease starting to ooze out. I typically put 4-6 pumps in each U-joint zerks, 4 pumps in the slide yoke zerk every 15K mi. The key is NOT to overfill the slide yoke zerk. The driveshaft needs to naturally compress, and pumping in too much grease (like when you see the driveshaft expand in length) will not allow it to do so. You don't need much grease.
 
THX Jim

That's Good advice, the FSM recommends pumping until grease comes out the seal on the sleeve, which is way to much presure build up, when the seals are as air tight as i have at 100,000 miles, good toyota seals i guess.

Who here thinks i should take the NLGI #1 grease out and replace with #2?

What do you think Jim
 
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If the #2 is what is recommended from factory, i would suggest you go with it. Toyota doesnt recommend things for nothing. They are recommending things that will help you vehicle last longer, as LCs are, and have always been designed to last a long time.
 
2001LC said:
Hi SINCITY100

What type lubs are you using?

2001LC
PS please remove your earler post #5, THX
Click to expand...

I`ve been using Vaseline brand for years now.. Just make sure that it is the unscented type because powder fresh is a dead giveaway.

Uhh, that question was related to Rusty`s recent thread on the 100`s awesome heater performance, right ? ;)

If not, and your question is referring to the DRIVE shaft on the 100... I have yet to grease the zerks (or anything else for that matter) on my rigs` drivetrain. But if I was to actually properly maintain my Cruiser, like 1LoudLX mentioned I would simply go with the factory suggested grease and nothing else.


BTW.. welcome 2001LC !!
 
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2001LC said:
THX Jim

That Good advice, the FSM recommends pumping until grease comes out the seal on the sleeve, which is way to much presure build up, when the seals are as air tight as i have at 100,000 miles, good toyota seals i guess.

Who here thinks i should take the NLGI #1 grease out and replace with #2?

What do you think Jim
Click to expand...


I would go w/ NLGI 2. I've used both moly and MP w/o any noticeable difference. If I had to buy one, I'd get the MP grease since it's used both in the driveshafts and front wheel bearings. And unlike on my old 4runner, you can't lube the ball joints on the 100...looks like one would have to replace them instead. On the new 4runners/GX, you can't even repack the front wheel bearings. The bearing is sealed and pressed onto a plate. You replace the entire bearing/plate unit...my guess it's to reduce maintenance for the first 90K mi, but it'll cost a lot more for long term ownership than the old tried & true inner/outer needle bearing design used on the mini's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and 100's.
 
The FSM and the OM do recommend #2.

I found the FSM to have about 10% errors in it.

The FSM and OM also said use: synthetic oil and lithium soap base #1 on the front axle thrust bushings were as the Toyota web service page said: molybdenum-disulfide lithium-base chassis grease for both the wheel bearings and bushings, did not specify #1 or #2 and add moly.

I talked to three different top Toyota shop in Denver, each used a different type grease, not one using NLGI #1, probable because the grease comes out of one barrel "it's cost effective". One tech told me that he counted 8 different greases that were recommend in the LC FSM, he carries one.

I agree, most of the time, follow the FSM and the OM to the letter is the best practice, but it also said to pump grease in the propeller shaft until it flows out the seal which is not good advice in this case. The advise I got here to only put 3 or 4 pumps is sound advise.

I tried the #1 on the front Propeller shaft to see if it would flow better past the seal which it did not on the bench test. My seals are air tight to over 500 PSI, one post i found here said to cut the seals to reduce the pressure, that i can't bring myself to do.

I have the #1 grease in the front Propeller shaft now, it took me three hours to RR, and most of that time was cleaning old grease out. I don't mind doing it again if makes a diffrence to life and operation of my TLC i just want what best for my TLC (my baby)

I was hoping to find someone here that is a real expert with respect the difference in Greases', oils and ATFs' as i am changing all my fluids and lubs. The only thing i belive is true here is that #1 and #2 have very simlar properties and that #1 flows easier than #2.


So the question here is will #1 work as good or better than #2 in this application?

so far the consensus here is NLGI #2, anyone else care to commit.

THX for the advice, it is appreciated;
2001LC
 
Jim_Chow said:
I would go w/ NLGI 2. I've used both moly and MP w/o any noticeable difference. If I had to buy one, I'd get the MP grease since it's used both in the driveshafts and front wheel bearings. And unlike on my old 4runner, you can't lube the ball joints on the 100...looks like one would have to replace them instead. On the new 4runners/GX, you can't even repack the front wheel bearings. The bearing is sealed and pressed onto a plate. You replace the entire bearing/plate unit...my guess it's to reduce maintenance for the first 90K mi, but it'll cost a lot more for long term ownership than the old tried & true inner/outer needle bearing design used on the mini's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and 100's.
Click to expand...

Jim,

Are you use NLGI #2 on the thrust bushings and bearings also?
And how do you get at them?

2001LC
 
NLGI # 2 moly-fortified in rear driveshaft slip joint, per FSM (grease until grease seeps out past seal).

Moly improves "film strength", "dry lube" properties, with reduction in "stiction" of the assembly. (The stiction is apparently what causes the "thud", as slip joint compresses after being at rest for a while, such as happens when starting to roll from a complete stop.)

Is "overgreasing" (until grease seen seeping out past seal) too much grease? Consider:

The slip joint retains pressure due to air in cavity alone, even if there is no grease at all inside the cavity. This will result in residual axial thrust.

A grease-filled cavity may increase that axial thrust under compression somewhat, but how much? Maybe not that much...

I expect that the thrust bearings (tranny, rearend) should be designed to handle thrust loads exceeding those developed by the overgrease condition. (My opinion...this is, after all, Toyota, and their "worldwide application rugged vehicle", with FSM telling us to overgrease the slip joint, which has thrust resultant from trapped air alone in any case.)

Also, look at the total slip joint axial travel: It doesn't compress/extend very much at all under normal conditions.

Where/how did folks conclude that overgreasing slip joint per FSM is "bad"? Did anyone run objective long-term testing - e.g., identical vehicles with identical use patterns, one with overgrease and one without?
 
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