Next Generation Slee or ARB Front bumper?

My wife has a pretty red '96. Fully stock.

When I got her the truck I offered to put a bull bar on it like the ARB on my grey build truck. She declined because the factory bumper looked fine.

This morning she bumped a mini van. It was gentle enough that the driver of the mini van looked, didn't see any damage, and then just waived exchanging info and went on her way.

Well, it didn't do anything severe. it pushed in the bumper about 3/4" so it is just barely touching the lower trim on one side. Yeah, I can probably knock out the tweak and replace the brace/brackets behind it that are mildly bent.

I showed my wife how the bumper was tweaked and would have to be replaced or repaired. I also showed her how thin the factory bumper was and how much damage just a bump causes. I put out a clean piece of cardboard and had her lay down on it to see how it connects and feel the brackets and the bumper metal thickness (thinness).

Then I did the same under the front bumper of my grey '96 with an ARB winch bar on it. She seemed to be in shock at how wimpy the factory bumper is. Then I brought her inside and showed her the photo serries of ARB bumper collision results. I even showed her the scottm/crane results.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=43775&highlight=arb+crane
Scott, I thank you for sharing the pictures and your experience with us. I am still amazed and thankfull that you are still around after that one.

I showed her the factory back 'bumper' on her truck and had her knock on one of the wings. Again, shock at it being plastic. Compared to the Slee rear bumper on my truck... no comparison. I also had her check out her factory steps and compare them to my Hanna sliders. Now she has a better understanding of why I changed all of these on my truck.

Well, she's a believer now. I have permission to put front end protection on her truck.

So, the question is: Do I order an ARB winch bumper Tuesday or wait for Slee's next generation bumper to come out?

She likes the pictures of Christo's better.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=92243&highlight=slee+front+bumper
Has anyone heard when this one's going to be out or how much it will be? Is he taking pre-orders? (Yeah, I'll give him a call on Tuesday if nobody knows off hand).

The cheap TJM simple bumper only is an option in theory. I'm not a fan of them though since I saw the picture of one folded in half. Does anyone have any other options to suggest?

Decisions Decisions Decisions...

Put yours on hers. Build your own, shortening the frame rails to get a better approach angle.

-Spike

Learning to weld is on my list of things to do before I die. Neither has happened yet. So, the battle of time & money puts me in the buy camp for this one.

I am in the "have an ARB but want the new Slee" camp so my vote is to give her your ARB and get the new slee for yourself. Convince the wife that she doesn't need the approach angle that you do. From a safety standpoint the pictures of Scott's 80 do a damn good job of justifying the ARB. My .02.

The TJM w/ no hoops looks quite good on the 80 and maybe a good option as well. it is good for the budget too.

My 0.02 regarding Christo's bumper:

I'm sure it's a very good construction, and I have no doubt it's stronger than the ARB, but...

the Slee bumper's design is lacking in two respects:

1) it offers no headlight/corner light protection. Being in the Pacific Northwest, tree limbs and other obstacles make light protection a must.

2) There is no tall centre hoop. In the event of a rollover or hard rear-ender, a centre hoop will better protect your rad from damage, and increase your chances of being able to drive home.

My ARB has a Warn M12K stuffed in it. She won't need a winch and it won't fit in the Slee bumper. So... My bumper is staying put. If the Slee took the M12K then swapping them out would be perfect.

The TJM no hoop one is kind of my fall back plan. Her's isn't an offroad truck... yet. It would be years before I upgrade the suspension and finish armoring it.

I've also considered getting the old version Slee bumper for one of us.

Decisions decisions...

Slee, ARB, TJM... Who else makes a bolt on alternative?

I can only speak from experience and offer my .02. If those above are your choices, I would eliminate the TJM and the ARB (and the ARB on yours, but I won't enter the debate on the necessity of the full bullbar now).
The Slee single-hoop bumper would be the perfect application for your wife's rig. Very capable off-road, but not very bulky up front for daily driving and would offer substanstial protection. You will also appreciate the look!!
Good luck and congrats on your wife letting buy new "toys".

x2 for give her your ARB, buy the Slee for yourself.

The rational argument to the hardcore....

Grench said:

The TJM no hoop one is kind of my fall back plan. Her's isn't an offroad truck... yet. It would be years before I upgrade the suspension and finish armoring it.

I've also considered getting the old version Slee bumper for one of us.

Decisions decisions...

Slee, ARB, TJM... Who else makes a bolt on alternative?

Click to expand...

Grench:
If it's not going offroad for a while, or even when it does it's medium, the TJM no-hoop is tough to beat bang for buck. It's got decent protection, won't break the bank, and cetainly offers more protection than the stock bumper. It's also quite reinforceable to make it hardcore, btdt on my 4R TJM. The TJM get a bad rap because they don't go 1/4in steel like the others. I personally think complete 1/4 in steel is overkill (specifically overweight), 1/4 in should be at the known load bearing points.

My serious offroad days were over when I sold the 4R turbo. I enjoy watching 80's equipped for serious duty, I'm just a small footprint kinda guy, not into swimming with leather seats, and find removing plastic flares to change what I like about the look of a classic truck. And hanging a couple hundred pound out front compromises my supercharger advantage...

The easiest way to justify the TJM is thinking about the hardcore argument. If it's never going to see hardcore environment, don't hang hardcore stuff on it. Go all out, if the truck goes all out. I easily resigned myself to the fact the most my truck will ever see is medium duty offroad. The TJM was the easiest decision I could make. It looks good, offers good protection, and dosn't weigh a ton.

My .02, or your rational argument...

Scott Justusson
94 FZJ 80 TJM-17 no hoop

1 more vote for ARB, more complete front end protection.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=71240

Here's a good thread that speaks to the value of the ARB with it's overkill protection.

That said, I'll be in line for Slee's new offering once finances allow...

Bullbars and crashes

Both ARB and TJM pass the AS/NZS 4876 Standards for crash tests implemented in AUS and NZ.

In my shop, I encourage tweeking, but make sure that I listen to the needs of the person and how the vehicle is driven. ARB and Slee both make fantastic equipment for the medium to heavy offroad crowd.

IME/O the word overkill isn't necessarily a good thing. Humping around a lot of extra weight in the front end really requires some sort of aux support (springs/bags/min shocks). Then you have a bunch more weight on the front end during maximum force braking, which increases braking distance. Then you have a minor at fault scrape that becomes catastrophic for the other driver.

The nice thing about the 80 is it has a worldwide market. So choices are bountiful. I encourage everyone to reread Grench post from less than hardcore perspective.

For a paradigm shift, think of a 'you at fault' accident with 1/4 in plate steel causing catastrophiic carnage. I think the bumper that was on the truck was the perfect one, given the wave off of Mrs G's 'at fault', I doubt that would have happened had even a TJM been installed. I'm on the side of improved protection, not overkill if this is primarily a street vehicle. The good news Grench, you got the purchase order. I'd encourage you to just make sure it passes a reasonable audit down the road.

My .02

Scott Justusson

SUMOTOY said:

Both ARB and TJM pass the AS/NZS 4876 Standards for crash tests implemented in AUS and NZ.

In my shop, I encourage tweeking, but make sure that I listen to the needs of the person and how the vehicle is driven. ARB and Slee both make fantastic equipment for the medium to heavy offroad crowd.

IME/O the word overkill isn't necessarily a good thing. Humping around a lot of extra weight in the front end really requires some sort of aux support (springs/bags/min shocks). Then you have a bunch more weight on the front end during maximum force braking, which increases braking distance. Then you have a minor at fault scrape that becomes catastrophic for the other driver.

The nice thing about the 80 is it has a worldwide market. So choices are bountiful. I encourage everyone to reread Grench post from less than hardcore perspective.

For a paradigm shift, think of a 'you at fault' accident with 1/4 in plate steel causing catastrophiic carnage. I think the bumper that was on the truck was the perfect one, given the wave off of Mrs G's 'at fault', I doubt that would have happened had even a TJM been installed. I'm on the side of improved protection, not overkill if this is primarily a street vehicle. The good news Grench, you got the purchase order. I'd encourage you to just make sure it passes a reasonable audit down the road.

My .02

Scott Justusson

Click to expand...

Sumotoy, just because you don't agree, doesn't mean we didn't read Grench's post. He asked for opinions, I suggest the ARB for overall front end protection, it is for more than just "off-road", in fact hardcore off roaders do not consider the ARB "hardcore" because the approach/departure are not the best possible, there are not adequate recovery points, etc.. The hoops protect against animals, as well as obstacles found in your local mall parking lot. In the event of an at fault accident, I'd rather incur carnage, then have carnage incurred to me or my loved ones. Obviously you feel differently.

SUMOTOY said:

For a paradigm shift, think of a 'you at fault' accident with 1/4 in plate steel causing catastrophiic carnage. .

My .02

Scott Justusson

Click to expand...

If I were to be the cause of catastrophic carnage, I could "what-if" myself way past the front bumper. What if I had been driving a Yaris instead of this heavy beast of a Cruiser? What if I had just stayed home instead of driving out on to public roads?

I hardly think mounting an offroad bumper on the front of a Cruiser is one step from negligent homicide.

Ben and Garth,

The point Scott is making refers to the possible "additional damage" that may be asserted upon an opposing vehicle (or any other object or persons the vehicle may impact) that would be involved in a collision.

IF the vehicle equipped with a "bullbar" was involved in a collision and IF said "bullbar" resulted in "additional damage or injuries or death" and IF said vehicle was deemed to be at fault, any "additional damage" , be it property or people, could possibly be deemed the responsibility of the vehicle so equipped.

Our litigous society is such that the possibility is quite high.

cruiserdan said:

Ben and Garth,

The point Scott is making refers to the possible "additional damage" that may be asserted upon an opposing vehicle (or any other object or persons the vehicle may impact) that would be involved in a collision.

IF the vehicle equipped with a "bullbar" was involved in a collision and IF said "bullbar" resulted in "additional damage or injuries or death" and IF said vehicle was deemed to be at fault, any "additional damage" , be it property or people, could possibly be deemed the responsibility of the vehicle so equipped.

Our litigous society is such that the possibility is quite high.

Click to expand...

I understand, but I would rather have my family/friend survive a near fatal accident (like scottm's), and possibly lose all my money in a lawsuit. If it is your fault, they will sue you anyway regardless of your bumper.

here is my thought process on the front bumper as i just went through this a few months ago. I soley decided with the ARB because of the hoops protection. Where i live, hitting deer is a real issue. The slee is very nice and is a great application for rock crawling. But to me, part of spending that much money up front is to protect the front end from everything, not just rocks. So deer, people, cars, whatever i may hit, i feel the ARB is a more well-rounded protection decision than the slee.

Just my 2cents

I do not disagree with your position Ben, I was simply clairifying Scott's information.


Let me put it this way:

Let's assume you are "at fault" and your vehicle is equipped in a manner that is not US DOT approved and your vehicle is "tougher" than it is supposed to be.
Your "reinforced vehicle" could create additional liabilities and any resulting deaths, damages or injuries could be deemed your responsibility in addition to your "normal liability".

I am being a Devil's advocate here simply to make a point. Either you or your loved ones die as opposed to any other involved parties. As long as it's not your fault you have a clear concience.

Grench said:

Decisions decisions...

Slee, ARB, TJM... Who else makes a bolt on alternative?

Click to expand...

ECB are light but still very strong. No good for rocks IMO.

Used ones come up now and again. This one is gone:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=814184&postcount=3

But, I like the look of the older style better:
1990 HDJ81 with ECB