Next Generation Slee or ARB Front bumper?

[wussyPup]

and another alternative...

from http://www.teampoly.com.au/Pages/Products/smartbar/smartbar.html

It may be the right compromise for protection from fequent low impact "bumps", and provide energy absorption for the "big one" where personal safety is more important than vehicle damage.

-Steve

 

[SUMOTOY]

Are you sure the 80 series bar has this?

In a word: Yes, TJM bars are certified to AS/NZS 4876, SRS, and ADR69, since 01-2003. NZ also adopted these specifications 11-2004, and imposed the fine penalties in July 2005. TJM lists all applications at certified. ARB doesn't do this, though if selling in AUS/NZ each bar application must pass 4876 as minimum.

Also, they are not 1/4". They are 3/16" at most (actually I think they are 3mm). There is ver little difference between the metal guage on the ARB and TJM. Most of the difference is in the design of how they mount and the design of the wings and the tube work.

Actually Christo, my understanding and observation is it's the design of the triangulation in the work, specifically, how is it reinforced, given the same thickness.


Scott Justusson

 

[firetruck41]

In a word: Yes, TJM bars are certified to AS/NZS 4876, SRS, and ADR69, since 01-2003. NZ also adopted these specifications 11-2004, and imposed the fine penalties in July 2005. TJM lists all applications at certified. ARB doesn't do this, though if selling in AUS/NZ each bar application must pass 4876 minimully.

Also, they are not 1/4". They are 3/16" at most (actually I think they are 3mm). There is ver little difference between the metal guage on the ARB and TJM. Most of the difference is in the design of how they mount and the design of the wings and the tube work.

Actually Christo, my understanding and observation is it's the design of the triangulation in the work, specifically, how is it reinforced, given the same thickness.


Scott Justusson

The TJM wings bolt on, while the ARB wing is part of the bumper, whether or not that is your understanding and observation.

 

[SUMOTOY]

The TJM wings bolt on, while the ARB wing is part of the bumper, whether or not that is your understanding.

I understand that, as I bolted mine on myself. What I'm speaking to and is the reinforced triangulation behind the bumper itself as in 90 degree flat to flat.


Scott Justusson
FZJ80 Supercharger TJM - 17

 

[FirstToy]

the TJM side wings are not as strong as ARB's 1 piece. This may or may not be a concern to the owner.

On a seperate topic-
safety is to the advantage of the newest vehicles. side curtain airbags, absorbing impact zones, new technology and design for occupant safety are higher priorities than when the 80 was designed.

I don't know how a bullbar equipped 80 will handle collisions but I do know I am old enough to make my own decisions on buying legal products.

 

[SUMOTOY]

I don't know how a bullbar equipped 80 will handle collisions but I do know I am old enough to make my own decisions on buying legal products.

My wfe doesn't believe that's true of me! I have to do a lot of creative customer billing as well in my shop, that indicates I'm hardly alone. Christo, how bout you?

SJ

 

[Grench]

and another alternative...

from http://www.teampoly.com.au/Pages/Products/smartbar/smartbar.html

It may be the right compromise for protection from fequent low impact "bumps", and provide energy absorption for the "big one" where personal safety is more important than vehicle damage.

-Steve

Woah! Cool! That may be just the ticket for her. A poly bumper built to absorb impacts! Does anyone sell these in the US? Probably not a big demand item... Still... If it isn't going to see rocks and protecting the occupants & vehicle better is the concern... These may be just right.

 

[tommyd]

Having just been in an accident in my ARB-equipped 80, I'm having second thoughts about having an ARB on my truck.

I don't want to be redundant, because I said all of this recently in another thread here:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=106053

but basically, I ran a stop sign that was obscured by a tree. No one was hurt, thankfully. Estimate for fixing my truck is $10k. Insurance will cover it, but my rate will go up, and I'm probably going to get a ticket. Insurance adjuster didn't sound pleased to learn that I had an ARB bumper.

I'm not sure whether my ARB helped my or made things worse, both for me and the driver of the Taurus. Had I hit her driver side door instead of her fender, she probably would have been hurt. I may have suffered more front end damage without the ARB but it's hard to say.

At this point, I'm weighing the costs and benefits of having an ARB. I had an ARB on my Toyota pickup for 12 years before I sold the truck, and put one on the 80 because I do a lot of driving at night in the backcountry of the southwestern U.S. and Mexico. I've come really close to hitting deer and livestock on several occasions. But I'm having second thoughts about putting an ARB back on the 80 after seeing the damage it caused to the other vehicle (and mine) in a collision.

Just thought I'd share my experience.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[concretejungle]

Tom there is no ARB on that truck in the picture.

 

[FirstToy]

Tom there is no ARB on that truck in the picture.

here is his post- I had to look a bit for it too concretejungle
https://forum.ih8mud.com/showpost.php?p=1341055&postcount=25

 

[SUMOTOY]

Right now, insurance companies put our trucks in rate groups. Lower end because they aren't considered offroad vehicles, yet. I suspect the rate grouping will change regarding bars, as AUS/NZ 4876 starts to become visible here in the States. There are 'pedestrian' groups in these countries that have some pretty brutal ad campaigns, statistics and even lobbying group efforts regarding bull bars.

What will happen here most likely will be the insurance actuary boys auditiing accident/damage reports, and there will be that addendum clause in your policy. This is already pretty common regarding body lift trucks. So much so, that it's almost impossible to trade a body lift truck in at any retail dealer.

The bottom line is that it's not really safety at issue, it's liability at issue. Aftermarket bumpers cost the insurance companies more money, it becomes a cause for clause.

I hope it's a ways off myself, as I'm not fond of someone else restricting the freedom of choice in toys. The compromise to the clause might be a 4876/SRS/ARM69 standard by DOT or State law.

Scott Justusson

 

[Tools R Us]

...
I don't for a minute believe that a 1/4 in plate bumper will necessarily 'help' in a frontal impact. Rusty's point of 2 rods vs the stock bumper are valid, and are an issue with SUV safety in general. However, I would want the bumper to deform in an impact myself, and not sure I care what my TJM takes out on 'my' truck as it does that. FT, a bumper that doesn't deform still has the same energy. So either the other party takes it, or your party does. So I believe your premise is flawed from both sides of the bumper. This goes back to the days (when dad was at GM, as senior safety engineer) when the early 70's frame pickups would survive crashes with repairable damage, but the energy impact took out the driver.

I'm sure this thread will get a lot of views helping several hardcore wheelers to justify their toys. I see a lot of compromises to full battle regalia on a street 80. No brake upgrades, a crappy COG, and unsportsman like conduct on the road, make me think that this move is just too over the top. IMO.

...

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged

The ARB is .160" including powder coat, a stocker is .080". The ARB is a good 'roo, deer, shopping cart, etc. deflector, but a poor "hardcore rock" bumper, it's too big and the angles are wrong. The net weight gain by installing one is what 60 LB, I don't see that having a huge impact on COG or brake performance.

Now I will get back to practicing my "unsportsman like conduct on the road".

 

[FJBen]

Add me into the "unsportsman" category as well...while not the best way to kill a deer....we met...at 70MPH in kansas at night. I didn't get a chance to brake or anything...

Big bang, car hardly slowed down until I braked and the bumper and more importly my family un-harmed. Had it been stock, it *could* have been MUCH worse...possibly blown tires from the smashed front end causing me going into the ditch or other lane...*could* happen

i'm with others on this, if It makes me & my family safer...it's staying on. it has NOTHING to do with me wanting to impale or cause major damage to others/vehicles.

I'm very happy with the performance of my ARB.

 

[SUMOTOY]

Add me into the "unsportsman" category as well...while not the best way to kill a deer....we met...at 70MPH in kansas at night. I didn't get a chance to brake or anything...

Big bang, car hardly slowed down until I braked and the bumper and more importly my family un-harmed. Had it been stock, it *could* have been MUCH worse...possibly blown tires from the smashed front end causing me going into the ditch or other lane...*could* happen

i'm with others on this, if It makes me & my family safer...it's staying on. it has NOTHING to do with me wanting to impale or cause major damage to others/vehicles.

I'm very happy with the performance of my ARB.

Sounds like it did exactly what it was designed to do, keep your truck intact in the US outback in a roo/deer collision. The reason I have a TJM as well, since I routinely go into Michigan deer country.... My concern has to do with Mrs. G's intention, which might dictate ARB as overkill (pun intended).

Toys comments prior really deserve another thread. As a guy that sheds 5pounds off track car designs for a living, saying that adding 60lb 3 feet forward of the front axle during maximum braking has no effect on braking distance or weight transfer, needs just a bit of math applied. That's assuming the ARB is sans winch.

It might also be worthy of note that the EU has outlawed bull bars as of this year. I don't think that will happen here anytime soon, but I'd sure expect the insurance companies to recognize a clause or premium, they seem adept at that.

Scott Justusson

SJ

 

[GeoRoss]

I've hit a deer going 75mph on the interstate before in a vehicle with a stock bumper. It is not something I want to repeat. 12 noon, passing a big rig in the left lane, little white tail jumps up out of the median (maby 60-70llbs), no chance to manuever.

Bust the power steering pump and radiator, push the bumper into the tire. I had coolant spraying the windshield and couldn't see, couldn't really steer and it was a fight to keep it from going into the median, while trying to get over to the shoulder while surrounded by now passing big rigs.

Made an impression on me. If I drove in deer country, I would install something meaty to help prevent this kind of damage again.

Ross

 

[firetruck41]

Toys comments prior really deserve another thread. As a guy that sheds 5pounds off track car designs for a living, saying that adding 60lb 3 feet forward of the front axle during maximum braking has no effect on braking distance or weight transfer, needs just a bit of math applied. That's assuming the ARB is sans winch.

Probably like putting a bag of dog food in the cargo area, it makes a difference on paper, but I'll never see it.

 

[Ivan80]

Made an impression on me. If I drove in deer country, I would install something meaty to help prevent this kind of damage again.

Ross

How about these...WTF?

 

[GeoRoss]

How about these...WTF?

Anything that would prevent a deer impact from damaging the rad and other key compenents would be good in my book.

Those shown are a bit too flashy for me though \

Ross

 

[Grench]

My delima continues.

It looks like I can get the poly bar, but it will be right about double the cost of an ARB. The new Christo bumper would rule... if this were a rock climber. It isn't. The ARB is a great standby, but I'd be painting it all the time.

I have the budget, but this seems like an awfull lot of $$$ for a chunk of plastic. I haven't been able to find anyone that has personal experience with one that can give me the straight scoop on them. Does anyone have a lead on someone that has one on any vehicle?

 

[NorCalDoug]

My delima continues.

It looks like I can get the poly bar, but it will be right about double the cost of an ARB. The new Christo bumper would rule... if this were a rock climber. It isn't. The ARB is a great standby, but I'd be painting it all the time.

I have the budget, but this seems like an awfull lot of $$$ for a chunk of plastic. I haven't been able to find anyone that has personal experience with one that can give me the straight scoop on them. Does anyone have a lead on someone that has one on any vehicle?

why the dilema? Why not just go with the steel ARB that many of us have?

to be honest, I haven't kept up on much of the plastic vs. steel bumper threads...