Valve Adjustment

From Google:

Thermal Dynamics 101

Q: How much does steel expand when heated?

A: 0.06 to 0.07 percent in length for each 100 deg F rise in temperature. source: building construction for the fire service 3rd edition francis brannigan p.273

Cast iron has a different rate of expansion. Steel is 7.3 and cast iron is 6.0 not nearly identical by any means. Aluminum is 12.3

Maybe someone smarter than I am can do the math and figure out a cold spec. I'll keep doing it hot.

-Stumbaugh

REZARF said:

Do you guys use the tool for adjusting the valves...

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No.


.008 and .014 feeler blades, zip-tied together, a wrench and a screwdriver......oh, and only two hands.

Stumbaugh said:

I like to use the feeler guages from Wurth, you get just the two you need, they are color coded and a good length for doing a cruiser.

-Stumbaugh

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John, you wouldn't have parts numbers for these feelers, would you?

This is what I got when I searched Wurth's site that led me to thomasnet:

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/feeler-gages-32251001-1.html

Thanks, Dan

Stumbaugh said:

Every oil change. Takes a bit of a feel to get it right, it amazes me how often I hear that the valves were just adjusted and they are all off.

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Every oil change?


Are you running synthetic?





If they are not staying adjusted properly for more than 2500-3K miles, someone is not doing something correct when adjusting the valves....


They do not 'fall out of adjustment' overnight....and should not after only 2 or 3 thousand miles of operation....


A feeler gauge should have some drag on it when trying to remove it. If it slips in and out without any real resistance, then they are loose.



Something else that should be noted and has not been....


Check the torque on the bolts and nuts that retain the rocker shaft stands to the head....If these have become loose, you will not ever get your valves to stay adjusted properly.

When I set the valves, that is the first thing that I check, and then move forward from there.

Blue77FJ40 said:

John, you wouldn't have parts numbers for these feelers, would you?

This is what I got when I searched Wurth's site that led me to thomasnet:

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/feeler-gages-32251001-1.html

Thanks, Dan

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Hello Dan,

Yes, here you go:

http://www.wurthusa.com/project/en/leftnavi/catalog/product.php?path=08.0351.jpg

They are color coded and I kept both an a key chain like the P man says to. Color coding is nice when you are working fast, you don't have to look closely.

Poser, I check at every oil change, why? I am GERMAN, need I say more?. Also, check first and ajust as needed.

-Stumbaugh

PS Poser is right, you should check to see what is causing them to come out of ajustment. If some moron ham fisted them, the adjusters can wear. You can even see the threads galled sometimes.

Same goes for a carb, if it does not respond to adjustment, rebuild it.

REZARF said:

Do you guys use the tool for adjusting the valves or just use the three handed method with two hands of a feeler, screwdriver, and wrench? I was thinking of getting one of those tools for it, but thought I would ask some with experience.

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Drew, If you need some help one day let me know. For a first timer adjusting valves by yourself it can get frustrating trying to get it right with the adjustment and locknut. I's alot easier if you have Stacy willing to help with tighening while you hold the adjustment and feeler.

So, John, I need blue and light green, correct? Thanks, I couldn't find that page.

Dan,

I gave mine to a friend as a going away gift, I'll ask him what color they were.

I think they have more sizes that is what listed there because I can't remember white. I though it was green and red? Not sure though. I'll find out.

-Stumbaugh

Blue and Green.

Maybe the colors have changed?

Stumbaugh

x2

i only adjust them twice a year, once in the spring and once befor Surt and Turf.

I fee that this is enuff, and i drive my cruiser a lot, this summer out to Moab for L.A. then up to Rubithon for La, and up to the Dusy in the fall not the metion the DD roll the truck plays in the summer. Heck i think that i adjust my brakes more offten then the valves.

Ian

Poser said:

Every oil change?


Are you running synthetic?





If they are not staying adjusted properly for more than 2500-3K miles, someone is not doing something correct when adjusting the valves....


They do not 'fall out of adjustment' overnight....and should not after only 2 or 3 thousand miles of operation....

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Rotating engine?

How do you easily rotate the engine to get to TDC? On my 1970 there doesn't seem to be a way to get on the crank a the front to rotate the engine due to the connector for a hand crank. I tried taking out all of the spark plugs but still can't turn over by hand.

AJFJ40 said:

I tried taking out all of the spark plugs but still can't turn over by hand.

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Did you leave it in gear?






I roll the truck with it in top gear, or use a 1/2" drive, long handled ratchet with a 46mm socket on the crank nut and turn it over that way...

No, I was in neutral.

AJFJ40 said:

No, I was in neutral.

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Well something is not right....


Even a new engine can be turned over by hand with the plugs removed....

I tried taking out all of the spark plugs but still can't turn over by hand.

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No, I was in neutral.

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How exactly are you trying to turn it over? With mine, with the spark plugs out, I push in on the belt (just to add a little more friction) and spin the fan. It turns over okay that way. I wouldn't say it spins freely, but it is definitely doable.

Good luck!

Poser said:

Did you leave it in gear?

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Just remember to take it out of gear when you go to start it - I forgot and mine lunged forward!! I replaced the starter with a newer gear reduction unit and that sob has some torque.

Poser said:

If they are not staying adjusted properly for more than 2500-3K miles, someone is not doing something correct when adjusting the valves....


They do not 'fall out of adjustment' overnight....and should not after only 2 or 3 thousand miles of operation....

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Respectfully disagree Steve. While I have been lucky to have periods of 6 or 9 months where I can go without adjusting the valves, there are other times where only weeks are involved. The same goes for several of my customers. There are two main factors for this.

One is camshaft wear. As the lobes wear down, the clearances change. I have adjusted valves for customers and have told them that the cam was going flat, based on the amount of 'slop' that had accumulated since the last adjustment. Then, sometimes, a lobe will surprise me and slow down its rate of deterioration as it gets closer to round. Granted, not near enough valve lift anymore, but goes out of adjustment less often.

Second reason: rebuilt head. Machine shops in these parts are big on pushing new valve seats during the rebuild process. The seats migrate over time. Sometimes they move once and stop. When that happens, that's great! Often times tho, they stay in one place for a while, then move incrementally over time. No particular rhyme or reason, tho I suspect longer trips at higher temperatures play a part. Not that I would know about that!;p

Case in point. I have a customer who drives his 69FJ40 from here in L.A. to Idaho every year or so. I installed a rebuilt head on his rig after he burned a valve from leaving them out of adjustment too long on one of his road trips. I installed a vacuum guage in his truck at that time and told him that if he was on another long road trip and saw the needle flickering, that he should get the valves adjusted at the nearest town and not wait for me.

He didn't listen. Needle started flickering about 300 miles from L.A. [so he says] In any event, 300 miles later, I was pulling the head again to replace another burned valve. I am certain that migrating valve seats caused this.

Bottom line: I don't see a problem with checking them with every oil change. In deference to Stumbaugh, I will admit that my maternal grandparents were German too!;p

This is news to me!

Great read you guys.

I can't wait to tell someone to make an apointment for thier oil change since it will be $289.00


Question. is this for all 2F engines? Or is the 3FE like this as well?

What does the manual say?

Is this every 3k miles or the 6 or so that is stated on the air cleaner decal?

To add to the newly rebuild head situation:

Another factor with rebuilt heads is that not all machine shops have good equipment or equipment that is not well worn. Even a good machine shop might have a tool that is getting dull. When a head is rebuilt and the valves/seats are ground, you need good sharp tooling to get a good seal. This is especially true with hardened valve seats. If the head has been rebuilt and this is not factory quality work or better, your going to get a lot of change as the motor breaks in. This will require many valve adjustments as the valves break in. Like Mark said, some of this is going to happen anyway. How do I know this? Experience is a euphemism for a long list of mistakes.

After a rebuild, you should always check the combustion chamber with alcohol to make sure that the chamber can hold with out leaking. When you get the head back from the machine shop, flip it over, fill the chambers and make sure they do not leak. I was taught that it's OK if they "weep" a little, but they alcohol should not leak out. I learned this trick from Bunny Burkette’s engine builder, he used to do this in the pits between runs to make sure that a used head did not have a mushroomed valve or to check a newly machined head and seats. This is much more reliable than the old Prussian blue test. You would be shocked how many times this simple test has found a bad valve job. I once got a full refund and a rebuild for free after running this test. I guess the guy had a bad day when he did my valves.

A badly rebuilt head is not what Mark's customer experinced, that is just normal after major service maintenance. With any head rebuild, you need to check the valves a few times. I'd do it at at 250 miles then at the 2nd oil change at 500 miles (1st oil change after 30 minutes of break in).

Poser, I always check the valves and more often than not, I find one that is loose or worse tight. Not very often are they all good. I also habitually check the oil in the transfercase. And, I check the oil pressure about every three minutes. I think this is called Super Type A.

-Stumbaugh

Alright, alright.

I'll adjust my damned valves!

Sheesh.