New EBL for tbi 60 (TBI 350 build)

[brokenparts]

Well, I thought I'd start my own thread and stop mucking up sixty's superduty thread. Anyway, I finally got my serial to USB adaptor today and I hooked up the new EBL (ECM) DynamicEFI to my my pretty much stock 1995 Chevy 5.7L. I was frustrated at first (I havent read any instructions yet) because I couldnt get the ECM to talk to my laptop and view it on the display to see what was going on. Finally after about 20 mins I figured out that I had to use a different com port (4) to dispaly the dianostics of the motor. Now I have to figure out how to do a "learn" and use tunerpro to edit the info...

Pssst... sixty... how do I do a "learn".

more to follow. I want to go back out and play with the cruiser.

 

[brokenparts]

pics of some of the junk that gathered so far...

Vortec heads
vortec gmpp performance intake (still need TBI adaptor)
xtemefi 46mm throttle body with adjustable fuel pressure

the ebl ecm

Just in case my th350 and toybox arent up for the task I bought a th400 and np 205 from Rustynailjustin on Pirate (to be doubled up with a 203)

front half of 32 spline 203

and when the longs wont do anymore... D60

 

[rsc71]

nice parts

 

[sixty]

Nice pile of parts! No problem on cluttering my thread, its was already pretty bad

Are you sure that is a Vortec manifold? I was under the impression that vortecs do not have an EGR port so it would be pointelss for GM to have an egr port on the manifold. I'm not too familiar with the combo so I could be wrong.

I had the same problem when I first fired mine up also. Only took me 1 min to fix though cause I've been using serial ports for the last 18 years and can troubleshoot them really quickly.

The VE learn is pretty simple since you are using the stock NB sensor. After you have configured the EBL bin to match the specs on your engine, you flash it into the EBL. Then before you start the engine you start datalogging so you can go back and see all of the engine input info. Start the engine and then you go up to file, Learn Ve, and select the bin you are using, then it will ask you what to name the new bin, Its best to go with the default name (original name with new 001 number after it). After this just switch over the the Learn VE display and if it is learning, you will see a green marker with a changed number on the screen. If it is yellow it is not learning. there is a setting under options in th eWUD that tells the engine not to learn until the engine temp sensor reads a certain amount. it won't leanr until it reaches this temp.

Before you do this, you want to make sure you have the bin settings correct. You might be better off using one of the stock bins provided with the EBL first, since it should match what you already have.

Unfortunately I have not gotten into fine tuning yet, which is where you will be (you are still pretty stock) so I can't be of much help.

Just play with it a bunch & you will see how it all works. if you are still running a 1-wire o2 (I am) then the location is very important, and could really affect the learn since it will not be reading correctly. everyone really reccomend a heated o2. I would also advise installing an IAT (idle air temp sensor) if you do not already have one.

For plugs and wires I have a stock TBI harness from an 89 5.7l caddy that had the plug for the IAT, A/c and is also a great source of ECM pins for adding pins to the EBL as well as quality wiring. I would recomend finding a stock TBI harness from a TBI car since they have the best seletion of connectors. They might be hard to find or too much $$$ so if you want I could pull some pins from my harness and send them to you, then all you need is to buy whatever connectors you need off ebay. This guy is a good source.

What kind of fuel pump do you have?

I fixed the bulk of my oil leaks last night so I'll be doing some tuning tonight. still needs alot of tuning, but its a beast!

If you run into any problem or would like some tips feel free to give me a call. I'll be available all evening.

 

[brokenparts]

right on man, I appreciate all your help. I guess a have some very basic questions... the bin is like the set of instructions the ecm is using right? None of the actual editing or changes are done in the WUD right? those are done in tunerpro which is a XDF file? After you edit the xdf file in tunerpro do you export it back as an ebl bin file?

You've lost me completely on adding pins to the ecm but I just started reading this thread and hopefully it'll answer some of my questions.

Not sure on the fuel pump... but the thing buzzes like a mofo when its on. Probably should see what it is and see if its up to the task.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom/356351-tuning-ebl-2.html?highlight=tunerpro+ebl

 

[sixty]

The bin is the program fiel that the ECU uses. This is directly flashed to the ECM.

You are correct, all WUD does is flash the bin file to the EBL. It will also edit the VE table in the bin file when doing a Learn VE. The rest of the changes you make in tunerpro, based on the datalog by WUD.

The XDF file is a set of instructions that Tunerpro uses to read and edit the bin. You need to open the XDF file first with tunerpro & then open the bin file you intend to edit.

You'll need a fuel pump capable of 20+psi, most TBI pumps are 16 or less. I posted a link in my thread to a great deal ($36 shipped) on ebay for an airtex E2000 which is capable of 90psi.

It all sounds complicated, but is actually simple. I highly suggest reading the EBL information HTML file contained on the EBL cd multiple times until it sinks in.


In order to use some of the cool features of the EBL (high idle, electric fan relay, shift light, nitrous etc..) you will need to add additional wires to the ECM. To do this you need a little pin on the end of a wire to, and they are easily removed from a GM TBI harness. I'm not aware of any other source.

 

[brokenparts]

that's been my strategy lately.... read, read it again, and then when frustration sets in, I ask questions. I'm trying to get a hold on the big picture now. My wife asks me now if I ever get my nose out of a chevy sbc build up book or if I ever read anything other than tuning junk anymore. I just tell her I'm trying to tune out the reality show she's watching and enrichin my life.

As far as the pins... I take it there are "emty slots" in the harness connector so you can add something like a IAT sensor? Then you would run the wire from the senor to one of the pins? I'd also have to assume you can assign or tell the ebl what that sensor is?

High Idle would be cool for winching. Nitrous would just be fun.

That's a good deal on the fuel pump. I have no idea of the history of my current pump... might just be good cheap insurance to replace it now.

 

[sixty]

My wife just asks how I can spend so much time reading posts on forums... I have no answer

Once you start playing with it everything that you read will all fall into place.

The ECM plug has empty slots that can be used by the EBL. The different function of the EBL are assigned to these unused pins and all you do is add the pin to use that function. When the EBL pin B9 is shorted it will increase the idle RPM to whatever you set it to in the bin file (800-3400rpm).

 

[brokenparts]

part of my problem was that I had the wrong xdf file open in tunerpro. Now that I have the right one open thing make a little more sense and I can at least follow along with some of the longer "tuning the ebl" posts...

I just home from my daughter's soccer practice so I didnt get a chance to play tonight. Hopefully I'll have time after work tomorrow.

 

[brokenparts]

Well, I did alot more reading today in the "tuning with EBL" thread and realized that this EBL is even cooler than I thought. I thought it was just an easy way to get info into tunerpro, then edit the info in tunerpro and then flash it back into the ebl. If I am understanding this right, the VE learn basically interprets the data from a "data learn" and does some of the tuning for you and then you just flash it back in without the use of tunerpro? Tunerpro just really does the fine tuning? Or is this just wishful thinking?

 

[sixty]

You are fairly correct with your assement and that is definately one of the biggest assets of the EBL. The VE table is only one setting in the bin, but is probably the most important and hardest to tune. There are many other tables and setting that need to be addressed in tunerpro prior to starting the engine and doing Ve learns.

The VE (volumetric efficiency) table is the fuel table that ECM uses to know how much fuel to give the engine based off of the amount of vacuum measured by the map sensor and the engine rpm. The ebl reads the o2 sensor value, NB or WB (way better and tunes much faster) and automatically changes this table, then all you do is re-flash the EBL with WUD using the new bin file. This saves a TON of work since before the EBL, you had to read your datalog o2 values and go in and modify the multitude (a few hundred) of table values using tunerpro, flash it & start the process over.

Near the bottom of the EBL info html doc there is a list of parameters you need to set in the bin prior to use or while tuning. Read this section then look in the calibration doc to familiarize yourself with these values/ tables etc.. the calibration doc explains every option you will see in Tunerpro.

I had to pull alot out of my timing tables (SA) based on the knock counts I was getting underload. I just pulled timing out until the knocks went away. The only way to find out were your timing makes the best power would be on the dyno.

Just keep reading up on it & things will just clearer. A strong understanding of internal combustion engine function helps with understanding alot of the functions of the EBL. I'm still learning alot about the EBL functions every time I work on my tune.

I put about 40 mile on my rig doing VE learns for the first 30 until the laptop died last night. My VE is very close & I need to pull some timing out at 4500k rpm+. I'm having trouble getting my shifter keep me in 1st gear for hard pulls, but I ran the engine up to 5500rpm's and its a beast. In second gear at 5k rpm's I'm doing close to 75mph so I'm afraid to let it keep pulling past that (I'm still not too comfortable with high speed on the recenterd wheels with the crappy biasply tires). I'm having some issues with a rich idle at times, so I need to check the injectors for leaks (dripping extra fuel) but right now I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a few hundred mile journey.

I'm at the point right now where I'm not all that sure where to go now. I need to make some adjustments to the AE (acceleration enrichment, ie.. pump shot) since when it kicks in I go really rich. I tried to do a few powerbrake burnout but it would go real rich and bog righ tat the launch. Its also pretty difficult to get the tires to brake loose with the detroit, but if it wasn't bogging it should lay some tracks. a higher stall would help also, but I don't want to go over stock. I'm sure it will light the fronts when I try that.

 

[brokenparts]

well, I ran my first series of learns tonight. I followed the instructions and blocked off the egr port and ccp port. Next, I went into the WUD and set the Maxium CTS to 150 in the preferences menu. Then I found the closest provided bin (8) and put it in tunerpro. I un-set the IAT's and that got rid of check engine light on the dash and the ses light in the wud. I did a couple 15min runs, a few shorter ones just idling around playing with rpm ranges. I tried to vary my driving to keep the green thing from turning yellow in the VE Learn table.

After tooling around I think I figured out how to create the bin and the flash it back into one of the banks. I could be full of sh*t but I honestly think it runs better. I did notice that the exhaust did pop on a hard decel in 2nd gear.

Anyway, things are starting to gel together... thanks.

Now I have to figure out how to do a datalog.

 

[brokenparts]

I've stumbled on the BPC vs.Vac section in the ebl calibration page. Do I need to 0 out that BPC table? I'm assuming that I my pretty much stock set up is not vacuum referenced? I believe the spring in the TB is what regulates the pressure? Or is there vacuum to control the pressure on the spring?

Again, sorry for the newb questions.

 

[sixty]

Sounds like your getting figured out. Dataloging is very easy, just go the the file menu in WUD and click on datalog. It will ask you for a file name & start logging as soon as you press open. then when you are done driving you go to the file menu & hit close data log.

To replay it in the WUD you go to the file menu, press "playback" and select the file. to view the raw data, go to the display menu & press analysis, then select the datalog file. From there you can view the data line by line by the 10th of a sec or dump the file that you can view all the raw data using notepad.

It is very important to datalog, since you can go back and read the data to see exactly what the engine is doing.


Last night I was on the freeway & went to drop the trans into second using my crappy hurst ratchet shifter and it dropped into first at 60mph! the engine hit 6300rpm's,and took it like a champ

I need to get into the finer areas of the tune now.

 

[sixty]

the BPC-Vac table is what references the ECM to the injectors. this is set using the BPC-TBI excell spread sheet included on the EBL . If you have a vacuum referenced FPR (stock is not) than the number will grow larger from top top bottom. With a non-vacuum FPR these numbers are all constant.

open up the spread sheet and add all of you specs (the stock regulator is usually around 12 psi). then the spreadsheet will give you the values to be copied and pasted into the table in tunerpro. The values you see should be real close to what you already have.

If you change this table, you will need to start over on your tune, since this is the basis for fuel added by the ECM. the purpose of this table is so that you can install bigger injectors or add more pressure and change this tabel accordingly without affecting your tune.

 

[brokenparts]

my bin file and the excel sheet look identical so I should be good to go (135 constant down through the table). I played with the table and it seems like there would be a pretty good advantage going to an external vacuum referenced regulator.

Glad to hear you didnt blow up your motor! that's a lot of rpm!

 

[sixty]

Sounds like you are good to go. The main advantage of the vacuum regulator is a better more efecient idle and bottom end, when running high pressure or big injectors.

I'm sure the valves were floating, but 6300rpm is nothing to the bottom end.

 

[brokenparts]

hahahaha, some day I'll have a motor like that.... gotta learn to crawl before I walk though. This motor and tuning stuff is so completely cool. Now that I am starting to get a grasp on the tuning stuff my original plan on waiting till the end of the summer to tear down is questionable but that's a whole other can of worms. I've never torn down a motor. Swapped them but never built one. I imagine doing a topend will be a good place to start.

 

[brokenparts]

found this for pin R&R...

Moving ECM Harness Connector Pins

 

[sixty]

Thats a good write up. it's actually pretty easy... I figured it out all on my own about 6 or 7 years ago

I use a small jewlers screwdriver and it works like a charm.

I've added the B9 high idel pin but I must have missed a setting in the bin since I haven't got it to work yet.