New drum brake shoes/components now no e brake/soft brake pedal?? Help!!!!

[jestlurnin]

Believe me I know how to use the search function and have been doing so for 2 hours. Haven't seen any posts about E brake not working after a drum brake job. Please read what I've done below and advise!!

Did my rear drums yesterday for the first time (first time ever doing drums). Put it all back together and had NO E brake and very very spongy soft pedal that would harden up if I pumped 5 or 6 times.

Watched ishobie's YouTube video 10 times then went out to tackle it. Brand new OEM brake shoes and springs and clips. Took the bell crank off and cleaned it all up (wasn't that dirty and was moving smoothly) and covered it with synthetic put the boot back on and bolted it back up. Did not have the drums machined as they are smooth and I'm pretty sure they are close to the minimum thickness. Both brake cylinders were replaced 2K ago as one was leaking so I just bit the bullet and did both.

Bled the heck out of the system. Had my wife sitting in the rig for quite a while. She was not amused after 20 minutes of me saying "OK now hold the pedal down" Started at back right, then back left then front right then front left. I can guarantee you there is no air in the system. It sat overnight in the garage and there were absolutely no signs of leaking from the brake line input to the cylinders or the bleeder plug. Plus the reservoir was never even close to running dry. I'm not concerned about having ruined the master due to pushing the pedal down farther than when the system is closed as I read in another post as my master is relatively new (less than 10K on it).

So currently the drums are back off. When you pull the E-brake and the adjuster lever makes contact with the star is it supposed to come off the star (spring off of it) when you take the E brake off?

Sorry for the book and thanks for the help

 

[45Kevin]

Did you adjust the rear brake shoes after you installed them?

If you didn't it would explain both the spongy pedal and the bad e-brake ( I am assuming the e-brake is on the rear drums).

 

[ad20k]

Given the scenario you describe, the sponginess may come from not pre-adjusted the brakes after putting things back together. If you use a screwdriver on the star wheel through the backing plate to expand the shoes to where they start to drag a little, it can make a big difference in pedal feel.

HTH

 

[jestlurnin]

follow up post sorry. Can someone explain the following to me? Might help me understand the system better.

Is the outer adjuster level (the one you have to push out to adjust/turn the star) supposed to maintain contact with the star once you pull the E-brake? It seems like it would make sense that it would maintain contact with the star so that the system stays adjusted where you want it adjusted to but I want to double check as mine is not springing off the star when I let the E-brake off.

Thanks for any and all help.

 

[jestlurnin]

This very may be the issue as I now feel like a complete idiot and will imidieately head down to the garage and adjust the shoes out to where they start to drag a touch. Thanks for the quick replies!!

 

[ad20k]

The adjuster plate should stay in contact with the wheel when pulling on the ebrake.

After a brake job, I have found it is best to manually adjust the star wheel through the backing plate rather than cycling the ebrake. You want to feel the shoes dragging slightly when you turn the wheel. This should solve your spongly pedal feel problem, assuming you have all the air out of the system.

 

[Elbert]

yea....you have to adjust the shoes as the last step.

 

[jestlurnin]

SUCCESSFUL TEST DRIVE!!!

Funny when you do something correctly the result is usually pretty positive. I still need to adjust them out a bit more (still slightly spongy) but I was locking up the rears relatively easily on wet pavement going down hill. The E-brake takes 14 clicks before it stops as well not the 7-9 that the FMS says is normal so that leads me to believe that I need to adjust the shoes out a bit more as well.

Thanks for the help gents.

 

[Kynot62]

Once you get the shoes adjusted, read the fsm there is an adjustment for the ebrake. The cable stretches over time, that knob on the handle has a purpose. And so does the bellcrank that is on the backing plate that the cable is connected to...

Tony

 

[Spike Strip]

If the self-adjusters are working correctly, you can just keep pulling up/down on the e-brake handle until the shoes are properly adj -- or when you reach 7 clicks. Self-adj work by using the e-brake, not pushing the brake pedal.

Glad you're getting it.

 

[jestlurnin]

That is how I thought the self adjusters were supposed to work.

I was under the impression you could have the adjuster screwed in all the way and just pull the E-brake until the shoes were adjusted out to the correct distance. Is it my understanding that if the system is working correctly that manually adjusting the shoes out should not have to be done, all one would have to do is pull the E-brake repeatedly until everything is nice and tight?

With the drums off and having someone repeatedly pulling the E-brake the adjusting lever would move the star 1 and some time 2 clicks but then wouldnt move the star anymore. Wonder if this comes down to bent/old adjusting levers or maladjusted E-brake or both or that I'm still a little hazy on the system? Like I said eveything else is brand new OEM.

 

[Spike Strip]

That is how I thought the self adjusters were supposed to work.

I was under the impression you could have the adjuster screwed in all the way and just pull the E-brake until the shoes were adjusted out to the correct distance. Is it my understanding that if the system is working correctly that manually adjusting the shoes out should not have to be done, all one would have to do is pull the E-brake repeatedly until everything is nice and tight?

Yes

With the drums off and having someone repeatedly pulling the E-brake the adjusting lever would move the star 1 and some time 2 clicks but then wouldnt move the star anymore. Wonder if this comes down to bent/old adjusting levers or maladjusted E-brake or both or that I'm still a little hazy on the system? Like I said eveything else is brand new OEM.

The adjusters are Left and Right handed (L&R sides), and have to have the "star" wheel touching the E-brake lever ...

Everything went back together correctly ?

It's good practice, if you didn't do it, to clean the adjuster threads and head and reassemble using some anti-seize so everything slides or rotates freely. Those adj can get pretty gummy.

 

[Elbert]

That is how I thought the self adjusters were supposed to work.

I was under the impression you could have the adjuster screwed in all the way and just pull the E-brake until the shoes were adjusted out to the correct distance. Is it my understanding that if the system is working correctly that manually adjusting the shoes out should not have to be done, all one would have to do is pull the E-brake repeatedly until everything is nice and tight?

I don't believe that is true when one replaces the brake shoes and backs off the adjusters when taking the various components apart. YOu have to get teh shoes adjusted back where there is just a little bit of drag on the drum when you spin it by hand.... then the adjsuters will work properly and keep the brakes adjusted. Otherwise in my experience....you bascially have no brakes on teh rear end because the adjusters have been manually backed down due to the new shoe install...

 

[jestlurnin]

I'm pretty sure I put everything back together correctly. I laid everything out and put the new components and shoes together with the old shoes and components next to it. My adjuster was brand new OEM but I still adjusted it all the way out before I put everything together and put anti-seize on the threads anyways then adjusted it all the way closed before I put everything together.

Perhaps someone can check out these pictures I snapped before I put everything back together to make sure everything looks right. It's tough to see in the photos but there is an R stamped on the passenger side adjuster level so I'm assuming I that is at lest on the correct side.

Still a little fuzzy on how the adjuster is supposed to work and I feel pretty good that 2 folks with over a thousand posts are not in agreement on this subject as I am admittedly still lost on how the system is "supposed" to work.
Anyone? Anyone?

 

[Kynot62]

Everytime I have done rear drums I have manually adjusted them so they have a slight drag, not much but you should be able to hear the shoes touching the drums as you rotate the drums by hand. Really easy to do this with two screw drivers throught the slot with the rubber boot in it. One of them pushes the adjuster off the star, the other rotates the star. Remember that one is right hand threads and the other has left hand threads.

The ebrake will operate the self adjust but stepping on the pedal and rotating the drum in reverse does the same, read the FSM... And you may end up with the "7-9" clicks mentioned but not always so you may need to adjust the ebrake handle.

I can't say why but drum brakes tend to only self adjust when going backwards, my old Ford was this way and it had drums on all four corners.

If you feel like you are getting conflicting info do what I do, trust the factory service manual over all else...

Tony