2f fires then dies- where to next?

[Lupdog]

I picked up a 1974 FJ45 last week. Total basket case that I got for parts but the more time I spend on her the more I think she deserves another chance.

I'm trying to get the engine running enough just to see what sort of shape it is in. It has had a 2F swap: engine #383XXX which I think makes it a mid to late '79 and looks to be the original AISIN carby for this engine. The truck has been sitting for some time.

So far, I can get it to fire for a second or two and then it dies. When it fires it is revving high. This is with the choke on, no air cleaner, no exhaust after the manifold (broken stud correct thread tap on order...) Sounds awesome!

Wiring is a total hack from PO. Starter is touching two wires together, ignition is a toggle switch on the dash. I have replaced spark plugs and leads. It fires, so I know I have spark.

Fuel pump works. Fuel is in the sight glass on the carby but nearly all the way to the top of the window. There is a dot in the middle of the window, so I assume this is supposed to be the correct level???

I'm thinking the carby is to blame. What would cause the high revving? Linkages all seem to be where they should and working correctly. Carby needs a good clean and a rebuild is inevitable I suppose.

Thoughts? Just looking for a little input on where to go next with this.

 

[platypusREX]

Try doing the "friend squirt gas in the carb to keep it running" method. The has to be rust in the fuel system for sure. Check the idle screw for the idle.
It reads like you are on the right path.

 

[Frankentroopy]

If that doesn't work, try checking your ballast resistor near the coil.

 

[Lupdog]

Try doing the "friend squirt gas in the carb to keep it running" method. The has to be rust in the fuel system for sure. Check the idle screw for the idle.
It reads like you are on the right path.

If that doesn't work, try checking your ballast resistor near the coil.

Thanks guys.

Currently have the gas tank and fuel lines out of the truck. Just running fuel from a can with a new hose to the pump so I know my fuel system should be clean up to the carby. I should have thought to check the idle screw - been a while since I've had a 2F!

I've since read a few things that are making me think electrical may be the problem. Your resistor suggestion frankentroopy may be the culprit. There is also what I think is an aftermarket starter motor on the truck which has different terminals to what is in my FSM. I think I am supposed to have a wire from the coil to the starter but there is only one terminal which is already used for "start". It is making my head hurt trying to figure out the starter, coil, resistor wiring, especially as none of the wiring resembles anything original.

More testing and head scratching before I can figure this out I think.

 

[DSRTRDR]

does the idle solenoid work ?

 

[bikersmurf]

It also won't run worth a dam without an exhaust pipe.

X2 on ballast resistor.

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Regardless of the wiring, you need to have voltage at the coil positive when the ignition is "on" Start there.
If you don't, you can jumper 12v to there (BRIEFLY) to test it out. Don't leave it there or you'll burn the coil up.

 

[billd45]

Sounds like the same problem I was just having. I agree with Frankentroopy. Jump the ballast resistor and give it a shot. Mine would act like it wanted to run as long as I held the key in the "Start" position but as soon as I let go it would die. Swapped the resistor and it fires up like a champ now. It starts so much easier now.

 

[Lupdog]

Quick update:

2F is still not continuing to run on after the initial firing.

Since last I have:
- bypassed the ballast resistor
- hot wired the idle solenoid. There is a faint click when 12v is applied so I assume it is working. There was no power to it before.
- put in a gt40 coil that seems to have more kick. Fires on the first or second crank nicely now.

So to recap, it now goes VROOOOOOM and dies now. Instead of just VROOM and die.

Still confused about starter motor wiring.

Any more ideas on what else to try or what to test?.

Lup

 

[FluByU]

Mine did this, it would only run with the starter engaged. The ignition fuse was blown. Probably not your case but something to look at.

 

[cruisernerd]

i screwed with an old truck with ignition troubles, for what felt like forever. i could barely get it to run and the points would be burned. they changed the ignition system 20 times in two years... $180 electronic ignition fixed it right.

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Did you try hot wiring the coil positive? Don't run it for 15 minutes like that, but just for a test.
That will eliminate a lot of issues with the ignition switch, fuse, resistor, starter.

Next, are you sure you don't have a fuel issue? It could be too little fuel or too much. You say that the level is at the top of the window. If the float valve is stuck open, it will flood and die.

When you start it, does it run until you turn the key back to "on"? Or does it die while the starter is still cranking?

 

[kurtnkegger]

Maybe I missed the post, but did you rebuild the carb?? There is something posted where you'll need to rebuild, but nothing (that I saw) says it was done...

 

[Lupdog]

Did you try hot wiring the coil positive? Don't run it for 15 minutes like that, but just for a test.
That will eliminate a lot of issues with the ignition switch, fuse, resistor, starter.

Next, are you sure you don't have a fuel issue? It could be too little fuel or too much. You say that the level is at the top of the window. If the float valve is stuck open, it will flood and die.

When you start it, does it run until you turn the key back to "on"? Or does it die while the starter is still cranking?

Coil checks out good. I have used two different coils on the truck so far so all good there.

After reading your post Ed, I had a better look at the fuel situation. Before I cranked it this time, I checked the fuel level in the sight glass - it was sitting at half way right where it should be. Then I cranked it a few times, no throttle used, no choke either so I knew it wouldn't fire. Then I checked the sight glass again and the level was up to the top of the window. So I guess that means it is flooding like you suggest.

So float valve stuck open? I don't suppose there is any other option but to open the carby the up? I really wanted to avoid doing that but if there is no other option then I may as well do it.

Would I need a rebuild kit or should I be able to button it all back together?


On your last point, it dies even if I am still cranking the starter.

Thanks, Lup

 

[edwjmcgrath]

It's worth a try trying to free the float or needle without opening it up.
Pull the fuel lines and the banjo fittings. Then pull the bowl drain plugs and put a rag under it. Then spray some carb cleaner into the inlet, return, bowl drain, and into the brass bowl vents. Follow with compressed air and repeat a few times. Then tap the top of the carb LIGHTLY with a rubber hammer. That might free it up. While you're at it, pull the idle mixture screw, open the throttle and spray in there too.

If not, you can pull the top of the carb without removing the carb from the vehicle. Then you can probably figure out why it's stuck open. If it looks pretty clean when you open it up, you may be able to reuse the needle valve, but you're probably going to tear the top gasket and, if so, will need to replace that. If it looks as nasty on the inside as it looks on the outside, you'll need to pull it and do a real rebuild.

 

[Lupdog]

Thanks for that Ed. I will have a go at it this weekend.

I kind of know I will have to rebuild sooner or later. I just want it to be later!

 

[Lupdog]

I finally managed to have a bit of a tinker today. Working 6 days a week and kids of 1 and 3 certainly makes shed time a rare commodity.

So I pulled the top plate off the carby and adjusted the float which was not stuck but way off where it should be sitting. Had a bit of a clean while I was in there and screwed the top plate back down. Fuel level now where it should be. Cranked it over and still the same result - rev and die. Although I did manage to get the engine to keep running once or twice (sort of) by having the throttle right open. I didn't like the idea of full throttling a cold engine that I don't really know the condition of - although a good sign was that it blew no smoke at all. Carby will need more attention - the pump plunger boot is in three pieces for a start.

So I turned my attention elsewhere. Distributor this time. Popped off the dist cap, rotor and dust cover. Holy moly it is full of crud in there! So the distributor needs to come out for a clean up. I grabbed the housing and it just spins like it is not even clamped. a quick check reveals just that - the clamp is fully tightened up but it doesn't touch the housing at all.

Anyway, I pulled the distributor straight out, and cleaned it all up and found that the little blue wire on the condenser had snapped off at the terminal where it screws into the breaker plate. Fixed that, put it back together and popped the distributor back in place. The clamp still won't tighten to the housing so that needs more investigation. I did try cranking the motor again but I have clearly not got something back right because the timing is now way out of whack.

I ran out of time to address this so it will be a battle for another day.

Not sure I achieved much today but I guess I learned a little more.

This thing is sure kicking my backside.

 

[cruisernerd]

i would run a fuel line to a jerry can to eliminate your tank as a possible problem. how old is the fuel? did you change the old fuel filter? did you drop the old fuel from your tank? start with the easy stuff... vacuum leeks can be a pita as well...

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Another easy thing to check is that the idle shutoff solenoid is getting power and working.

There's a lot of threads here on how to properly align the distributor after you've pulled it out and put it back off by a tooth or two. Seems like everyone has to do that once in their life...

 

[Lupdog]

i would run a fuel line to a jerry can to eliminate your tank as a possible problem. how old is the fuel? did you change the old fuel filter? did you drop the old fuel from your tank? start with the easy stuff... vacuum leeks can be a pita as well...

I am running with fresh fuel from a can so all good there. I'll do a check for vacuum leaks. Thanks cruisernerd.

Another easy thing to check is that the idle shutoff solenoid is getting power and working.

There's a lot of threads here on how to properly align the distributor after you've pulled it out and put it back off by a tooth or two. Seems like everyone has to do that once in their life...

Idle solenoid has power and clicks but I guess I could probably bench test it to totally sure. Getting the timing back will be my next step. Thanks again