Need 350 TBI TPI fuel injected help 1970 FJ55
- Thread starter RIDDLER
- Start date
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inkpot
SILVER Star
Howdy! I think I would try borrowing a PROM from someone with a late 80's, early 90's 1/2 or 3/4 ton pickup. Can't hurt to try. Might just give you the grunt your looking for! John
Seems normal that a corvette PROM would be burned for more fuel, since a vette is a hi-po engine.
PROMs have type numbers. The Camaro and Cavalier PROMs may not be typed correctly for your ECM. The label on the ECM should tell you what PROM type you need to use. Then it's a matter of finding that PROM type that was used in the same setup as yours - small block V8, automatic, standard injectors, normal aspiration, etc. You could post your ECM and PROM numbers here. Might help.
Brian at TBIchips.com has a solid understanding of GM TBI. Give his website a try.
I had a similar problem with my Caprice engine - ran way rich. Turns out I had cop car injectors and needed a PROM reburn. Brian burned a basic chip for me and is willing to tweak it once I determine if it's good enough.
Also, WINALDL is a free program that you might be able to use to log data and troubleshoot.
Just some ideas. theo
PROMs have type numbers. The Camaro and Cavalier PROMs may not be typed correctly for your ECM. The label on the ECM should tell you what PROM type you need to use. Then it's a matter of finding that PROM type that was used in the same setup as yours - small block V8, automatic, standard injectors, normal aspiration, etc. You could post your ECM and PROM numbers here. Might help.
Brian at TBIchips.com has a solid understanding of GM TBI. Give his website a try.
I had a similar problem with my Caprice engine - ran way rich. Turns out I had cop car injectors and needed a PROM reburn. Brian burned a basic chip for me and is willing to tweak it once I determine if it's good enough.
Also, WINALDL is a free program that you might be able to use to log data and troubleshoot.
Just some ideas. theo
Downey
SILVER Star
RIDDLER, I agree that a late 80's-early 90's GM truck engine prom should work perfectly fine (for TBI engine), that's what everyone else uses. If you get any persistant check engine lights (VSS, O2 Sensor, etc), give me a call (562)949-9494
Jim
Jim
FJBen
SILVER Star
what issues were you having with is running too rich? Mines running ok at the moment but has some issues..
I discovered that I had 65 lb/hr injectors with a 55 lb/hr chip. Brian burned me a new one in no time and I was off and running. Still slightly rich (he does this on purpose because it's much safer than too lean) and my idle hangs at ~900 rpm, then slowly drops to 650. My issues continue to diminish in size; some day it will run sweet. I'll figure out the idle "problem" and have Brian lean it out a little more. That's about the extent of my problems for the moment.
I fine tune as time allows, but it's bow season now. Motorhead stuff plays second fiddle.
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do you have TPI (tuned port injection, see pic) or TBI throttle body injection check this site out it may help identify the chips you have or what you need, he has some tbi stuff too, it also lists the prom BCC # and what they belong to, look towards the bottom and check the trouble shooting section www.chevythunder.com oh and i forgot to ask, since its an 89 what about the VATS (vehicle ant theft system) that may be why the other chips dont work. the vats system will only allow the car to run for a second or two before shutting down the injectors unless its turned off (removed from prom)
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the 89 vette chip probably does not work because of the VATS. i believe all vettes from 86 to 92 had VATS after that they changed the system slightly. and all camaro and fireturd had it from 89 on. if the camaro chip works i would try it. how long have you been using it ? and do you have the O2 sensor hooked up ? the computer will have a learning curve for a while when first ran to get everything working and get the mix to the 14 to 1 ratio, if it runs and the fuel is fresh drive it a little and see what happens. check these guys out for a chip if you need to http://www.scotthansen.net/ and maybe these guys http://www.tunercat.com/ they may be of help. and look on ebay motors there are guys with tuning services on there that will custom tune a chip, but dont buy the ones you add on to your factory chip if you can avoid it. you want just a stock chip for what ever size motor you have and make sure theres no vats and tell them if you are running any emmision stuff because they can turn it off too. and tell them if it is has MAF or MAP sensor and try a search on TPI or tuned port injection i have posted a bunch a sites that may help.
can you post up a pic of the front and passenger side of the motor ?
it doesnt look like you have the cold start injector on the drivers side of the motor between the 2 sets of runners. is there a tube runnining from the back of the fuel rail to the side of the manifold on the driver side going into the base of the runner ? thats a cold start injector . but from what your pic looks like it doesnt have it and if thats the case then you have an 89 to 92 TPI unit wich eliminated the cold start injector and uses all 8 injectors to start the vehicle and there for your 88 chip wont work right. you need one for the 89 non cold start injector if you have the MAF sensor and if you have a MAP sensor then you need a chip for 90 to 92 camaro. read up on the diferances on the chevy thunder site and you will understand and heres a site that will help identify the fuel rail to narrow down what year you have and injector size as well. http://www.fuelinjection.com/portinj.html
see the attached pic of fuel rail with cold start injector, its the tube part that goes from around the back to the side of fuel rail. do you have this ?
it doesnt look like you have the cold start injector on the drivers side of the motor between the 2 sets of runners. is there a tube runnining from the back of the fuel rail to the side of the manifold on the driver side going into the base of the runner ? thats a cold start injector . but from what your pic looks like it doesnt have it and if thats the case then you have an 89 to 92 TPI unit wich eliminated the cold start injector and uses all 8 injectors to start the vehicle and there for your 88 chip wont work right. you need one for the 89 non cold start injector if you have the MAF sensor and if you have a MAP sensor then you need a chip for 90 to 92 camaro. read up on the diferances on the chevy thunder site and you will understand and heres a site that will help identify the fuel rail to narrow down what year you have and injector size as well. http://www.fuelinjection.com/portinj.html
see the attached pic of fuel rail with cold start injector, its the tube part that goes from around the back to the side of fuel rail. do you have this ?
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I am almost positive there is a chip difference for the 5.0 (305) and the 5.7 (350) both engines came in the F body (Camaro/Firebird) So if you have a 350 be sure you are getting the right chip. Call Fuel Injection Specialties in an Antonio TX they know it all about TPI.
Dynosoar
Dynosoar
Dynosoar, yes you are right thats why i said get a chip for the size motor you have (meaning 305 or 350)
oh and riddler i almost forgot but these guys make a box to eliminate the vats so you could use the vette chip if you have a 350 because vettes only cam with the 350. might be worth trying i think its like 30 or 40 bucks. http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7erz1/ good luck!
I have a TPI 40 Series with a 88 Camaro 5.7 in it. This winter I was going to install this harness and ECU setup from painless. I don't know if you have seen this yet, looks pretty cool! Hope this helps.
http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/largeview.php?SearchField=65104
http://www.painlessperformance.com/webcatalog/largeview.php?SearchField=65104
hey riddler, before you go spending coin lets check a few things. can you get me the number off the fuel rail about 6 to 8 didget (it should have some letters and #'s) that should tell us if the motor is 305 or 350 and what size injector if parts are not mixed from other motors and if you can get the last 3 or 4 numbers off the injectors if not the hole number(towards the top of injector) and if you can, the number on the manifold near the EGR valve.
and do you know if he (PO) used the original camaro harness or a painless harness ? does it have the ALDL port with a light ? is the light on after you fire it up (it will light when first started but goes out) if its on all the time you need to check for error codes by using a jumper wire (paper clip) go to the ubove painless wire site mentioned by forcedinductionz and down load there PDF file on installing there harness it will take you through (step by step) on how to hook a harness up and checking out the system as you go. and part numbers for sensors etc.
did the PO hook up the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) that is very important to how the rig will run. it tells the ECM if the car is moving and how fast or if parked this all affects how it runs or doesnt run. follow your speedometer cable and see where it goes, it should go down to the tranny or tranfer case where it should attach to a roundish looking device with one or two wires comming out of it. thats the VSS unless it uses a reluctor ring (magnetic pick up) in the tranny but will still have a plug with wires going to the ECM. but dont confuse that with the torque converter lock up wires. like i said download the file from painless it will explain alot more with pics.
and it looks by your pics (link = licence plate) that you may be in washinton state ? if so are you anywhere near the everett area ? i have several (6 or 8) books all about this that i could lone you and i have a custom chip for an 89 350 TPI set up with VATS turned off that i would love to test out anyway. i wont have my TPI set up running till spring ($$$ issues) anyway study what i have linked to and you should figure it out and please ask any other questions you may have.
and do you know if he (PO) used the original camaro harness or a painless harness ? does it have the ALDL port with a light ? is the light on after you fire it up (it will light when first started but goes out) if its on all the time you need to check for error codes by using a jumper wire (paper clip) go to the ubove painless wire site mentioned by forcedinductionz and down load there PDF file on installing there harness it will take you through (step by step) on how to hook a harness up and checking out the system as you go. and part numbers for sensors etc.
did the PO hook up the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) that is very important to how the rig will run. it tells the ECM if the car is moving and how fast or if parked this all affects how it runs or doesnt run. follow your speedometer cable and see where it goes, it should go down to the tranny or tranfer case where it should attach to a roundish looking device with one or two wires comming out of it. thats the VSS unless it uses a reluctor ring (magnetic pick up) in the tranny but will still have a plug with wires going to the ECM. but dont confuse that with the torque converter lock up wires. like i said download the file from painless it will explain alot more with pics.
and it looks by your pics (link = licence plate) that you may be in washinton state ? if so are you anywhere near the everett area ? i have several (6 or 8) books all about this that i could lone you and i have a custom chip for an 89 350 TPI set up with VATS turned off that i would love to test out anyway. i wont have my TPI set up running till spring ($$$ issues) anyway study what i have linked to and you should figure it out and please ask any other questions you may have.
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