I have a 2004 LC that I've owned for 5 years with 108,000 miles. It's been solid as a rock from the day I've owned it. Lately, when driving in traffic, I've noticed that the transmission seems like it is shifting hard right before I come to a complete stop and right when I come out of a stop. When I shift it into "neutral" before stopping and shift back to "drive" before moving forward again it doesn't happen. Anyone else ever have a similar issue? Or am I being too neurotic about it? Thanks in advance for any feedback. My service guy didn't think anything was wrong.
2004 LC Transmission Question (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter sosodefcane
- Start date
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Have you changed the fluid out recently or ever?
Could it be the notorious clunk/thunk you're feeling? I know it sounds crazy (if you haven't read about that) but you could try lubing the front/rear prop shaft (slide yoke zerks and spider zerks) just to rule it out. I know I have gotten the two confused - was afraid I had a bigger issue and realized it was just prop shaft in need of grease. If the grease doesn't fix it and/or you're confident it's a transmission issue perhaps you should check transmission fluid level and change it if it hasn't been done in a while.
- https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series...-driveshaft-thread.html?highlight=clunk+thunk
- Also see here - lots suggested it was the driveline thud/clunk but in post 11 tinkerer said it was a transmission issue that was resolved by changing fluid: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/184196-transmission-thud.html#post2704673
- more info on driveshaft lubing https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/22649-possible-drivshaft-tranny-clunk-maintenance-faq.html
- https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series...-driveshaft-thread.html?highlight=clunk+thunk
- Also see here - lots suggested it was the driveline thud/clunk but in post 11 tinkerer said it was a transmission issue that was resolved by changing fluid: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/184196-transmission-thud.html#post2704673
- more info on driveshaft lubing https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/22649-possible-drivshaft-tranny-clunk-maintenance-faq.html
does it happen more frequently when you stop hard? another guy recently had this happen and he was low on tranny juice and was starving the pump from slosh.
- Thread starter
- #5
All - thanks for the replies and links to other threads. In re the fluid level, I asked my Toyota mechanic that very question, and the answer I received was something along the lines that the transmission didn't require fluid change, etc., which sounded odd to me. I'm going to take the suggestions I've received and discuss them with a mechanic that specializes in LCs. It's a bit of a drive from my regular guy, but will probably be worth it.
If you're comfortable greasing the propeller shaft it's worth the 15 minutes to eliminate it as the cause of the clunk/thunk. If you're not comfortable with it, it's a great first time diy job.
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I bet it is the rear driveshaft. Grease it until it starts to expand. Noise will be gone.
if it were the infamous driveline clunk, it would also be happening when going from N->D, right? this sounds like it's happening 2->1 only. I agree with agaisin - lubing the shaft is a good idea anyway, but this sounds different.
your mechanic is sort of right. it does require fluid changes, there's just a very long interval and it's not intended to be user serviceable. here's the link I was referring to. remember: the fluid level is checked hot and with the engine running. https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/184196-transmission-thud.html#post6571022
- Thread starter
- #9
Took it to a LC shop in Atlanta (ACC Cruisers) and they said the driveshaft was appropriately lubricated. They recommended changing the fluid in the transfer case to a more robust, synthetic version, but also said that the transmission can get a little "loose" over time. I'm going to give the transfer case fuild change a try and see if it helps. Of course, any thoughts on doing so are appreciated. Love the LC, hate the hard 2-1/1-2 shifts coming in and out of stops.
You've got an '04, so you need to be careful about what fluid you use. Your model calls for WS ATF which is NOT compatible with the other types of ATF (T-IV, Dexron etc). Your procedure for changing fluid is also slightly more of a pita since you don't have a dipstick.
I know I sound like a broken record but I don't think you can tell whether the driveshaft is "properly" lubricated by visual inspection - b/f spending the time on the ATF change, 15 minute lube of the driveshaft is probably worth it.
I posted the procedure I used for a full fluid replacement for ws atf: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/447398-ws-atf-flush-procedure.html?highlight=atf
I know there are other good/better posts with pics as well.
You may want to go for a simple drain and refill instead of dropping the pan and doing a full flush - but either way, pay careful attention to the procedure to check that the fluid level is correct (i.e. vehicle is level, temp check mode says your at correct temperature, and engine is running when you undo the drain plug, etc.).
As far as alternatives to WS ATF, I think there are some (https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/296238-ws-atf.html) but it might be worth sticking with toyota's WS ATF to be sure.
See Toyota's TSB TC008-07 for more info about WS ATF. Here's excerpted info:
World Standard (WS) Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) was introduced to reduce
maintenance costs and increase the mileage between scheduled maintenance checks.
Here are some important tips when working with ATF-WS in Lexus vehicles requiring
its use.
2004 – 2008 model year Lexus vehicles equipped with automatic transaxle
requiring ATF-WS.
100,000 Maintenance Interval — Inspection only; ATF-WS does NOT require any
flushing or changing during the life of the vehicle.
The use of Genuine Toyota ATF-WS is recommended.
The use of additives or aftermarket fluids that are considered compatible
or substitutes may result in shift concerns and damage to the internal
transmission components.
ATF-WS is NOT compatible with T-IV or Dexron ATF.
Containers storing Toyota ATF-WS should always be sealed — If exposed to the
atmosphere, ATF-WS may absorb moisture and potentially cause shift concerns if
used in operation.
One time use only.
When performing repairs on ATF-WS equipped transaxles, it is important to use
only new, clean ATF–WS when refilling the ATM.
ATF-WS equipped ATMs may use the overflow type procedure — Any fluid
drained from the overflow plug should be discarded following proper local
regulations and never reused. Failure to do so could result in shift concerns and
damage to the internal transmission components.
From TSB at original release of WS-ATF (TC009-03), there's more warnings about why not to use non WS ATF:
The following symptoms will occur if non–WS ATF is put into a WS compatible
automatic transmission:
Non–WS ATF has a higher viscosity. Because of this, response to changes in
fluid pressure decreases, lengthening shift time, causing shift flare.
When the fluid temperature is low, (approximately –40°F (–40°C), air can enter the
oil pump causing cavitation resulting in low fluid pressure.
Fuel consumption increases.
The following symptoms will occur if ATF WS is put into a non–WS compatible
automatic transmission:
ATF WS has a lower viscosity than other ATFs. Because of this, response to
changes in fluid pressure increases, shortening shift time, causing shift shock.
If WS is filled into a non–WS automatic transmission, the fluid could leak out under
high temperatures (approximately 284°F (140°C).
Vehicles that use ATF WS can be identified by:
A. ATF dipstick is no longer installed.
B. “WS” stamped on the refill plug.
I know I sound like a broken record but I don't think you can tell whether the driveshaft is "properly" lubricated by visual inspection - b/f spending the time on the ATF change, 15 minute lube of the driveshaft is probably worth it.
I posted the procedure I used for a full fluid replacement for ws atf: https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/447398-ws-atf-flush-procedure.html?highlight=atf
I know there are other good/better posts with pics as well.
You may want to go for a simple drain and refill instead of dropping the pan and doing a full flush - but either way, pay careful attention to the procedure to check that the fluid level is correct (i.e. vehicle is level, temp check mode says your at correct temperature, and engine is running when you undo the drain plug, etc.).
As far as alternatives to WS ATF, I think there are some (https://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-cruisers/296238-ws-atf.html) but it might be worth sticking with toyota's WS ATF to be sure.
See Toyota's TSB TC008-07 for more info about WS ATF. Here's excerpted info:
World Standard (WS) Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) was introduced to reduce
maintenance costs and increase the mileage between scheduled maintenance checks.
Here are some important tips when working with ATF-WS in Lexus vehicles requiring
its use.
2004 – 2008 model year Lexus vehicles equipped with automatic transaxle
requiring ATF-WS.
100,000 Maintenance Interval — Inspection only; ATF-WS does NOT require any
flushing or changing during the life of the vehicle.
The use of Genuine Toyota ATF-WS is recommended.
The use of additives or aftermarket fluids that are considered compatible
or substitutes may result in shift concerns and damage to the internal
transmission components.
ATF-WS is NOT compatible with T-IV or Dexron ATF.
Containers storing Toyota ATF-WS should always be sealed — If exposed to the
atmosphere, ATF-WS may absorb moisture and potentially cause shift concerns if
used in operation.
One time use only.
When performing repairs on ATF-WS equipped transaxles, it is important to use
only new, clean ATF–WS when refilling the ATM.
ATF-WS equipped ATMs may use the overflow type procedure — Any fluid
drained from the overflow plug should be discarded following proper local
regulations and never reused. Failure to do so could result in shift concerns and
damage to the internal transmission components.
From TSB at original release of WS-ATF (TC009-03), there's more warnings about why not to use non WS ATF:
The following symptoms will occur if non–WS ATF is put into a WS compatible
automatic transmission:
Non–WS ATF has a higher viscosity. Because of this, response to changes in
fluid pressure decreases, lengthening shift time, causing shift flare.
When the fluid temperature is low, (approximately –40°F (–40°C), air can enter the
oil pump causing cavitation resulting in low fluid pressure.
Fuel consumption increases.
The following symptoms will occur if ATF WS is put into a non–WS compatible
automatic transmission:
ATF WS has a lower viscosity than other ATFs. Because of this, response to
changes in fluid pressure increases, shortening shift time, causing shift shock.
If WS is filled into a non–WS automatic transmission, the fluid could leak out under
high temperatures (approximately 284°F (140°C).
Vehicles that use ATF WS can be identified by:
A. ATF dipstick is no longer installed.
B. “WS” stamped on the refill plug.
Last edited:
Grease the driveline! Your symptoms match what I had almost exactly and greasing the shaft fixed it.
As you will see in the "OFFICIAL" clunk thread there is a debate as to whether to grease it until grease flows past the seals vs. less grease. I'm not an expert, but I'm in the Grease it till it flows camp. A call to an expert in my area, TLC4x4.com (I think many guys on this forum have heard of them), got me the same answer. Also, for the propeller shafts, use the "moly" grease.
FWIW, I am not a very good DIY guy and I don't have many mechanical skills. Greasing the shafts is one of the few jobs I can do myself (along with changing light bulbs in the tail lights and changing an air cleaner).
As you will see in the "OFFICIAL" clunk thread there is a debate as to whether to grease it until grease flows past the seals vs. less grease. I'm not an expert, but I'm in the Grease it till it flows camp. A call to an expert in my area, TLC4x4.com (I think many guys on this forum have heard of them), got me the same answer. Also, for the propeller shafts, use the "moly" grease.
FWIW, I am not a very good DIY guy and I don't have many mechanical skills. Greasing the shafts is one of the few jobs I can do myself (along with changing light bulbs in the tail lights and changing an air cleaner).
- Thread starter
- #13
As an update, I took it back to my regular mechanic (not the LC shop that suggested changing the fluid in the transfer case) and told them to lube the driveshaft, etc., even though they told me that wasn't the problem. The result? It worked. Thanks for all the advice and feedback. It was most appreciated, and I'm very happy to have my LC running like a champ again.
