zen + the art of windshield wiper fluid troubleshooting

[landcruiser3DP]

love the title, sub'd because I need to do this

yeah. i was talking to a guy that replaced his motor and it was still not working. one tip that might be easy to miss is it is a LOT easier to hear the motor if the tank is empty. first thing i might do if i had to do it again would be to pull the hose to the motor, unbolt the tank and motor. empty the tank and then test it with your head out the passenger side.
if it is not working start messing with the connection.
i started at the diverter and worked back (and also tested the motor with fluid in the tank...) and i’m not sure that is a good strategy...

 

[MrMikeyG]

Jeez, I think I need to go through all of this as well. The hose to the rear sprayer is just dangling loose down in the jack stowage area, and one front spray doesn't seem to work.
Also, if anyone else reads this thread and is still confused regarding dielectric grease;
Think of landscape lighting wires. you strip the ends, twist them together (raw wire to raw wire), then either put dielectric grease on with a standard wire nut, or buy one of the expensive (blue/orange) wire nuts that is already packed with dielectric grease.
Don't get it into the actual pins and sockets of a connector, but on the plastic mating surfaces to "seal" the connector.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

For those interested, I dove into the system this morning. I disconnected the hose at the diverter, dangled it over the fender, and engaged the motor. No spray... so I pulled the tank out, pulled the motor off, and stuck the motor on a 12V power supply... no dice. The motor wouldn't turn. So I popped the cap off the motor, pulled the gear out, and spun the motor shaft with a wrench... talk about crunchy. There is no way I could see to fully disassembly the motor, so I just spray some alcohol in there and spun it around until it felt cleaner.

Hooked it back up to the power supply, and it works

I am putting the pump back together right now, using some 5minute epoxy which I think should do the trick. Epoxy is curing right now, will bolt it all back up and report back. Photos for this interested...

Here is the cap you need to pop off. It's glued in. I put the body in a vice and used some pliers (i thought it threaded in). Use a skinny flat head

Here is what you'll find inside, pull the little brown plastic gear off, the cap you just remove holds it captive. Slides out nice and easy.

Splin this shaft with some pliers, mine was very crunchy:

Clean up the sealing edges (there is a tapered face and a small lip, I removed as much goo as I could with an exacto knife). Then add a small amount of epoxy (or glue of your choice) to the housing edge and the cap edge (don't over do it, you dont want any migrating onto that gear) and then press them back together. Make sure you line up the small notches, that cap has an orientation.

Once they are together, I added a small bead around the edge and hooked it back up to the power supply to make sure it still spins and to move any epoxy that may have found its way into the pump

currently curing in the vice, with the glued bit down to prevent any epoxy from travelling:

 

[Rollinns]

In your pictures with the voltmeter, are you only getting 11 volts out of the connector to the washer pump?
When I bought my 80 the stream on the windshield was very weak, I can remember if the rear squirter ever worked. I though about adding a voltage booster circuit to the pump to increase the pump voltage to 18v, but I just blocked off the hose going to the rear and the pressure to the front increased so much I left it.

Once the pump and diverter are working you could use a voltage booster, rated for the amps the pump pulls, or just get a signal from the pump connector to actuate a relay and run the pump off battery voltage through the relay if you think a voltage booster may decrease it's life.

Just using a relay to get full or nearly full battery voltage to the pump should be a significant difference. A voltage booster may turn the nozzles into pressure washers.

 

[landcruiser3DP]

For those interested, I dove into the system this morning. I disconnected the hose at the diverter, dangled it over the fender, and engaged the motor. No spray... so I pulled the tank out, pulled the motor off, and stuck the motor on a 12V power supply... no dice. The motor wouldn't turn. So I popped the cap off the motor, pulled the gear out, and spun the motor shaft with a wrench... talk about crunchy. There is no way I could see to fully disassembly the motor, so I just spray some alcohol in there and spun it around until it felt cleaner.

Hooked it back up to the power supply, and it works

I am putting the pump back together right now, using some 5minute epoxy which I think should do the trick. Epoxy is curing right now, will bolt it all back up and report back. Photos for this interested...

Here is the cap you need to pop off. It's glued in. I put the body in a vice and used some pliers (i thought it threaded in). Use a skinny flat head
View attachment 1994425

Here is what you'll find inside, pull the little brown plastic gear off, the cap you just remove holds it captive. Slides out nice and easy.
View attachment 1994426


Splin this shaft with some pliers, mine was very crunchy:
View attachment 1994427

Clean up the sealing edges (there is a tapered face and a small lip, I removed as much goo as I could with an exacto knife). Then add a small amount of epoxy (or glue of your choice) to the housing edge and the cap edge (don't over do it, you dont want any migrating onto that gear) and then press them back together. Make sure you line up the small notches, that cap has an orientation.

Once they are together, I added a small bead around the edge and hooked it back up to the power supply to make sure it still spins and to move any epoxy that may have found its way into the pump
View attachment 1994430

currently curing in the vice, with the glued bit down to prevent any epoxy from travelling:
View attachment 1994431

nice!! you has more courage than me. i guess i wasn’t sure how that cap was secured. so put the body in a vice and pliers to /turn/ the cap? or how did you get it off without busting it again please?

 

[Somebodyelse5]

In your pictures with the voltmeter, are you only getting 11 volts out of the connector to the washer pump?
When I bought my 80 the stream on the windshield was very weak, I can remember if the rear squirter ever worked. I though about adding a voltage booster circuit to the pump to increase the pump voltage to 18v, but I just blocked off the hose going to the rear and the pressure to the front increased so much I left it.

Once the pump and diverter are working you could use a voltage booster, rated for the amps the pump pulls, or just get a signal from the pump connector to actuate a relay and run the pump off battery voltage through the relay if you think a voltage booster may decrease it's life.

Just using a relay to get full or nearly full battery voltage to the pump should be a significant difference. A voltage booster may turn the nozzles into pressure washers.

Sounds like your diverter wasn’t fully diverting, the pump should spray pretty nicely with the 12v

 

[Somebodyelse5]

nice!! you has more courage than me. i guess i wasn’t sure how that cap was secured. so put the body in a vice and pliers to /turn/ the cap? or how did you get it off without busting it again please?

I figured I would likely have to replace the pump anyways, might as well try to fix it! What’s the worse I could do, break it more

I put the body in the vice (don’t clamp it hard) and then with a pair of pliers I carefully grabbed the outside diameter of the cap (it’s very thin) and twist a bit and it popped off. If I were to do it again, I’d take a small flat head and see if I could pry it around the edges to get it to pop

 

[landcruiser3DP]

I figured I would likely have to replace the pump anyways, might as well try to fix it! What’s the worse I could do, break it more

I put the body in the vice (don’t clamp it hard) and then with a pair of pliers I carefully grabbed the outside diameter of the cap (it’s very thin) and twist a bit and it popped off. If I were to do it again, I’d take a small flat head and see if I could pry it around the edges to get it to pop

thanks that’s great. i try to back off before breaking s*** and i was probably watching hockey but now i can take another stab at it if i have to. actually - i think the only thing i got out of pirsig was to stop before you break s***!
pretty cool of you to show how to fix these.

 

[fz1boxer]

any factory part number for the pump and nozzles,i have replaced parts with junk from the local auto parts store and get the piss stream of a 100 year old goat

 

[Somebodyelse5]

thanks that’s great. i try to back off before breaking s*** and i was probably watching hockey but now i can take another stab at it if i have to. actually - i think the only thing i got out of pirsig was to stop before you break s***!
pretty cool of you to show how to fix these.

Generally I agree about not breaking stuff, but if It’s already broken and you are willing to be patient, the risk of breaking an already broken part feels pretty low. Just dont ever break something out of frustration! Zen was a good book, definitely a source of confidence in fixing things yourself.

 

[MrMikeyG]

man. That's nice work.
Anyone have advice on hose to source if needing a lot of it? I'm pretty sure there is crappy stuff out there and good stuff out there as with any other hose (OEM vacuum hose compared to O'reillys comes to mind)

 

[Somebodyelse5]

man. That's nice work.
Anyone have advice on hose to source if needing a lot of it? I'm pretty sure there is crappy stuff out there and good stuff out there as with any other hose (OEM vacuum hose compared to O'reillys comes to mind)

I’d order from mcmaster, they have lots of options and good prices on bulk

 

[Somebodyelse5]

@hotwheels2017 I think you'd appreciate this (yeah, I noticed your fluke meter ), been using it at lot to trouble shoot. Computer powersupply with a breakout board for various voltages.

Epoxy is cured and the tank is reinstalled...it works! Now I'm going to try tearing apart the diverter and see if I can get it to work

 

[landcruiser3DP]

@hotwheels2017 I think you'd appreciate this (yeah, I noticed your fluke meter ), been using it at lot to trouble shoot. Computer powersupply with a breakout board for various voltages.
View attachment 1994617

Epoxy is cured and the tank is reinstalled...it works! Now I'm going to try tearing apart the diverter and see if I can get it to work

nice. fun to see what kind of skills people have. it may take me awhile to understand what that is though. want to explain a bit?

ALSO. on the fluke. fwiw, i kept searching for one and found one listed for $50 at a pawn shop. apparently the displays can get weak but the fix is simply to open the case and use an eraser to clean the contacts and screw it back together.

in addition (which i actually didn’t know at the time) i think the fluke is so sensitive the meter can jump all over the place and not stop for awhile. so if you tell the guy it is busted and you just want it for parts you can probably get one for a reasonable price used.

i’m finding the autoranging is pretty nice since i still don’t quite understand when i am supposed to use which volt or ohm setting...

 

[Somebodyelse5]

nice. fun to see what kind of skills people have. it may take me awhile to understand what that is though. want to explain a bit?

ALSO. on the fluke. fwiw, i kept searching for one and found one listed for $50 at a pawn shop. apparently the displays can get weak but the fix is simply to open the case and use an eraser to clean the contacts and screw it back together.

in addition (which i actually didn’t know at the time) i think the fluke is so sensitive the meter can jump all over the place and not stop for awhile. so if you tell the guy it is busted and you just want it for parts you can probably get one for a reasonable price used.

i’m finding the autoranging is pretty nice since i still don’t quite understand when i am supposed to use which volt or ohm setting...

make sure not to try to measure resistance (ohms) with voltage applied to a circuit... it can fry your meter

Sure thing, so that is an ATX computer power supply (pulled it out of an old Dell desktop someone was throwing away) and got a $20 breakout board that plugs into the existing wire harness. It has a built in polyfuse (so cycling the power resets it) and the power supply is regulated, which means you get a stable voltage within the power supplies power limits. Yay cheap electronics! I use the thing to power all sorts of DC motors.


I pulled apart the diverter valve. It's basically just a solenoid...with a plunger that has rusted away (this is the only thing that has rusted on this truck in phx haha!). I don't think it's salvageable but I may give it a try... I'm thinking I could find a plain washer that is the right diameter, weld the center shut, grind it flat, and then reinstall.

The diverter, top down showing the 4 bent over tapes that retain the inner bits:

the inner bits, note the rusty plunger in the cap:

Some rust in the spring, that suspends the plunger. When you turn on the rear squirt function, the solenoid pulls the plunder down (towards the green windings) which diverts flow:

 

[Somebodyelse5]

Solenoid doing it's thing:

Voltage across the big ol resister:

Cool video:

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Sure thing, so that is an ATX computer power supply (pulled it out of an old Dell desktop someone was throwing away) and got a $20 breakout board that plugs into the existing wire harness. It has a built in polyfuse (so cycling the power resets it) and the power supply is regulated, which means you get a stable voltage within the power supplies power limits. Yay cheap electronics! I use the thing to power all sorts of DC motors.


I pulled apart the diverter valve. It's basically just a solenoid...with a plunger that has rusted away (this is the only thing that has rusted on this truck in phx haha!). I don't think it's salvageable but I may give it a try... I'm thinking I could find a plain washer that is the right diameter, weld the center shut, grind it flat, and then reinstall.

The diverter, top down showing the 4 bent over tapes that retain the inner bits:
View attachment 1994780

the inner bits, note the rusty plunger in the cap:
View attachment 1994782

Some rust in the spring, that suspends the plunger. When you turn on the rear squirt function, the solenoid pulls the plunder down (towards the green windings) which diverts flow:
View attachment 1994790

nice work. so before you pull that diverter apart (or before i do) - is there a way to test it with 12V alligator clips? just listen for a clunk?

can you tell which spigot is the default? i guess this one would be front? or, well can you tell which spigot is front and which is back?

also. if i want to test it for fluid flow.

the reservoir supply goes into the side i think. i guess i could connect two hoses to it? A hose is “front” and B hose is back. if front wiper fluid button powers one or the other i know it works and then try the rear washer and if that doesn’t work i know it needs work...?

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Solenoid doing it's thing:
View attachment 1994797

Voltage across the big ol resister:
View attachment 1994798

Cool video:

OK. so help me here please? it may take me some time to figure out what you have there with the computer parts. but if i get the brain space i will ask here is you have the time.

on the video. what are you doing there? you have a manual switch where you have connected to 12V, got the alien wrench close to the powered solenoid and let it go? then you flicked the 12V power off?

and i guess that is a 4 Ohm resistor? what does it do again...?

THANKS

 

[Somebodyelse5]

nice work. so before you pull that diverter apart (or before i do) - is there a way to test it with 12V alligator clips? just listen for a clunk?

can you tell which spigot is the default? i guess this one would be front? or, well can you tell which spigot is front and which is back?

also. if i want to test it for fluid flow.

the reservoir supply goes into the side i think. i guess i could connect two hoses to it? A hose is “front” and B hose is back. if front wiper fluid button powers one or the other i know it works and then try the rear washer and if that doesn’t work i know it needs work...?

Yup, you should just need to listen for the clunk, the magnetic field should build up real quick and move the plunger unless it is corroded like mine (mine wouldnt move).

I believe the default position is:
bottom nipple - to rear window
inboard nipple - in from pump
aft nipple - to front windshield

OK. so help me here please? it may take me some time to figure out what you have there with the computer parts. but if i get the brain space i will ask here is you have the time.

on the video. what are you doing there? you have a manual switch where you have connected to 12V, got the alien wrench close to the powered solenoid and let it go? then you flicked the 12V power off?

and i guess that is a 4 Ohm resistor? what does it do again...?

THANKS

Here is some reading that should answer your questions:

ATX - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Power supply unit (computer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Amazon product ASIN B00W0SBUJ0
In the video, I am just applying power to the solenoid (which is just a coil of wires that create a magnetic field when you pass current through them)... that magnetic field is what creates the motion to move the plunger (which is what makes the solenoid work). With power supplied, I was demonstrating how the magnetic field attracts the allen wrench. When I switch off the power, the magnetic field decays and the wrench falls.

That big resistor is 4 ohms, me thinks it is there to prevent issues if there is a short in the coils or if they overheat. Allows a bypass in the event that the resistance in the coils goes over 4 ohm. (electricity likes the path of least resistance... more ohms = more resistance)

More reading if you are interested:

Solenoid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[landcruiser3DP]

Yup, you should just need to listen for the clunk, the magnetic field should build up real quick and move the plunger unless it is corroded like mine (mine wouldnt move).

I believe the default position is:
bottom nipple - to rear window
inboard nipple - in from pump
aft nipple - to front windshield




Here is some reading that should answer your questions:

ATX - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Power supply unit (computer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Amazon product ASIN B00W0SBUJ0
In the video, I am just applying power to the solenoid (which is just a coil of wires that create a magnetic field when you pass current through them)... that magnetic field is what creates the motion to move the plunger (which is what makes the solenoid work). With power supplied, I was demonstrating how the magnetic field attracts the allen wrench. When I switch off the power, the magnetic field decays and the wrench falls.

That big resistor is 4 ohms, me thinks it is there to prevent issues if there is a short in the coils or if they overheat. Allows a bypass in the event that the resistance in the coils goes over 4 ohm. (electricity likes the path of least resistance... more ohms = more resistance)

More reading if you are interested:

Solenoid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

thanks for the links and the info here.
so electrically that solenoid is basically a copper winding that gets power and creates an electromagnet?

and the resistor of 4 Ohms - prevents voltage over some amount from passing beyond the coil? but if the voltage goes over that amount the resistor acts as a sort of overflow and allows anything beyond that voltage to pass back into the harness or something?

or how does that equation work please? i never did get that.

amps = volts/resistance
amps = 12V/4Ohms or 3Amps