Your Thoughts on the LC 250? (6 Viewers)

[2021 LC200]

Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races

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While I am sure well meant and perhaps based on daily regular use, I find this confusing as well. HP = Revs x Torque. One is directly related to the other with revs “in the middle”. To win races HP is key as revving high and related noise is less of an issue. If Enzo said this he probably meant endurance races like the 24 hrs of Le Mans and revving flat out at say 8000 or 10000 rpm for 24 hours becomes a reliability issue, yet HP together with aero dynamics and cornering grip wins races. Ferrari’s are by the way high HP designed and tuned engines.

As to this point, Williams tested their F1 car with a CVT able to rev flat out all the time (at around 16000 rpm as F1 engines do) and knocked several seconds of the Silverstone round times. The FIA for some obscure reason banned the use of a CVT in F1. Must be the industry lobby behind regular gearboxes.

F1 Technique: Williams tested a CVT transmission back in 1993 (+video) | Car News | Auto123

Read this car news article from 2014-01-02. F1 Technique: Williams tested a CVT transmission back in 1993 (+video)

www.auto123.com

For daily use and certainly off reading I do agree high torque engines (which means relative high HP at lower revs) are more useful.

 

[M1911]

While I am sure well meant and perhaps based on daily regular use, I find this confusing as well. HP = Revs x Torque. One is directly related to the other with revs “in the middle”. To win races HP is key as revving high and related noise is less of an issue. If Enzo said this he probably meant endurance races like the 24 hrs of Le Mans and revving flat out at say 8000 rpm for 24 hours becomes a reliability issue, yet HP together with aero dynamics and cornering grip wins races. Ferrari’s are by the way high HP designed and tuned engines.

For daily use and certainly off reading I do agree high torque engines (which means relative high HP at lower revs) are more useful.

I agree. I think the Porsche 911 GT3 that revs to 9,000 RPM sounds like a truly wonderful sports car that I would love to drive (just as soon as I win Powerball).

But for everyday driving in an SUV or pickup? Give me low-end torque.

 

[2021 LC200]

I agree. I think the Porsche 911 GT3 that revs to 9,000 RPM sounds like a truly wonderful sports car that I would love to drive (just as soon as I win Powerball).

But for everyday driving in an SUV or pickup? Give me low-end torque.

To that point, my 535d has high HP at low revs and is great to drive. Porsche engines by the way are know to be relative high HP or torque at lower revs making them with manual 6 speed a joy to drive.

 

[Phillyd2]

I too came from a 4th Gen V8 4R to a 5th Gen. The low end difference was very noticeable but it took about a day to get use to it. When I want peppy I don't grab the 4Runner keys because that's exactly what it isn't and shouldn't be.

 

[Brown98LC]

Yes, the 1GR is more than adequate even in the dunes
However if you have been driving a 5.7 or a twin turbo lc300 then honestly going back to a 1GR is gonna suck alittle.

I've been driving 1fz/2uz cruisers most my life so this for me feels like a rocket ship.
The 5.7 in my 200 is great too and torque wise it's a different level but it's all about perspective and what you are happy about.
The 5.7 would climb dunes much more relaxed than my 1GR 300 which I sometimes need to really gun in order to go up some steep hills but that's only on rare occasions and its still doable.

Believe it or not I actually felt the twin turbo 6 was abit too powerful for the dunes.

We would hit some dunes we were used to bashing in our underpowered cruisers and with the twin 6 is you go full throttle like we used to in our weak ass cruisers you would fly off the dune haha.
Its all about perspective
Like I said, acceleration currently isn't the issue with the 1GR.

The torque is the issue and honestly its pretty low especially in todays era of turbo engines.

I wonder how a 2.4 I4 turbo 300 would drive...one day maybe? Blasphemous? maybe but so was a V6/V8 after the I6.

 

[Phillyd2]

To be fair almost none of us do THAT kind of dune driving and if we did we'd probably tow a buggy

 

[Brown98LC]

To be fair almost none of us do THAT kind of dune driving and if we did we'd probably tow a buggy

For me dune bashing a Land Cruiser sounds less foreign than rock crawling and wheeling a huge LC scraping its bumper all over the mountains.

Buggies are fun, alot of fun, however dune bashing in a Land Cruiser is a different experience. They are very capable dune bashing vehicles.

 

[MeWantLC]

The 1GR for the GCC is a radically different engine than the one for the US market.

Ok, so,

The engine in the T4R 5th Gen ARE NOT the same as the V6 in the LC200 and LC300 for the rest of your world ? That's what I was trying to understand. I had 5 T4R's 5th Gen (two modded and three stock), and towed an RV with two of them for many days and never had an issue. I keep hearing comments how this engine is not powerful enough, so when I saw the comment about the LC200 and 300 with such engine, I couldn't stop wondering how does that engine do with such big trucks. That's all.

Cheers...

 

[MeWantLC]

And to add to the original post and OP:

I have a lot of hope for for the LC250 and the GX550 too:
*. I wish the LC250 would have the eKDSS the GX550 has.
*. I wish the GX550 would come with a hybrid but so far, it doesn't.

*. I just came back from a 12hr drive and the LC200 is really such a nice car for a long trip, the second row seats move forward and backwards, and lots of space. The LC250 and GX550 will not have these feature.

*. The car feels planted and like a tank. I really wonder how the LC250 would feel and the GX550. As I said it before, I have the feeling the GX550 will feel very similar to the LC200 and the LC250 won't.

I do think the LC250 would be a phenomenal car with a great aftermarket support. Who knows, maybe we would do little rubber donkey's (because the donkey is the strongest animal for REALLY hard work back in my country) and we will be "donkey-ing" a fellow LC250 owner on the road the same way Jeep families "duck-each" other on the road ! .

 

[2021 LC200]

And to add to the original post and OP:

I have a lot of hope for for the LC250 and the GX550 too:
*. I wish the LC250 would have the eKDSS the GX550 has.
*. I wish the GX550 would come with a hybrid but so far, it doesn't.

*. I just came back from a 12hr drive and the LC200 is really such a nice car for a long trip, the second row seats move forward and backwards, and lots of space. The LC250 and GX550 will not have these feature.

*. The car feels planted and like a tank. I really wonder how the LC250 would feel and the GX550. As I said it before, I have the feeling the GX550 will feel very similar to the LC200 and the LC250 won't.

I do think the LC250 would be a phenomenal car with a great aftermarket support. Who knows, maybe we would do little rubber donkey's (because the donkey is the strongest animal for REALLY hard work back in my country) and we will be "donkey-ing" a fellow LC250 owner on the road the same way Jeep families "duck-each" other on the road ! .

You ended up buying a 200?

 

[MeWantLC]

You ended up buying a 200?

Oh , yeah. I have had 4 of them. 2011, 2015, 2018, and 2013 (currently).

 

[Phillyd2]

For me dune bashing a Land Cruiser sounds less foreign than rock crawling and wheeling a huge LC scraping its bumper all over the mountains.

Buggies are fun, alot of fun, however dune bashing in a Land Cruiser is a different experience. They are very capable dune bashing vehicles.

Having done it a few times in your part of the neighborhood I agree that it's tremendous fun. I was just saying that the terrain is unique and not found in many places. Sand driving in North America is a much different animal.

 

[Specialeyes]

The only thing good about the 4.0 is its reliability. Now that’s not a small thing, of course. But the 4.0 doesn’t have great power, it has poor NVH, and it gets terrible fuel economy. In a vehicle as heavy as a 200 it would feel gutless.

It feels gutless in the 4R but I think it’s more so the ancient 5 speed and tuning and less the engine itself.

 

[TheRealDeal124]

I'd love a Non-Hybrid option for the 1958. Slow 4 cylinder will be fine. 8 speed. With no sunroof and cloth seats. Hell give me a 6 speed manual! Roll up windows. Ya know, more like 1958 in the most modern way. I'd buy one tommorow.

 

[TWILLY]

I'd love a Non-Hybrid option for the 1958. Slow 4 cylinder will be fine. 8 speed. With no sunroof and cloth seats. Hell give me a 6 speed manual! Roll up windows. Ya know, more like 1958 in the most modern way. I'd buy one tommorow.

I would love an ultra spartan interior too — roll windows, cloth, and general favor for mechanical levers over electric buttons. Sadly, the era of high capacity low spec Japanese utility vehicles in the US is long gone.

 

[Brown98LC]

It feels gutless in the 4R but I think it’s more so the ancient 5 speed and tuning and less the engine itself.

The 6 speed is definitely a much better transmission.

 

[Brown98LC]

I'd love a Non-Hybrid option for the 1958. Slow 4 cylinder will be fine. 8 speed. With no sunroof and cloth seats. Hell give me a 6 speed manual! Roll up windows. Ya know, more like 1958 in the most modern way. I'd buy one tommorow.

The non hybrid 4cyilinder turbo as per some of the torque/hp range pics shared earlier is still better peforming than a 1GR, which could mean it'll eventually replace the 1GR enitrely in vehicles that still use the 1GR.

 

[Brown98LC]

Having done it a few times in your part of the neighborhood I agree that it's tremendous fun. I was just saying that the terrain is unique and not found in many places. Sand driving in North America is a much different animal.

It really is, but very dangerous and should always be respected. No matter how good you think you are, the dunes always have to be respected.
I am not that good maybe 60% level, but I acknowledge it and know my limits.

 

[Rednexus]

The 6 speed is definitely a much better transmission.

Aren't they the generally same, with the 6 speed having a 2nd overdrive added?

 

[Brown98LC]

Aren't they the generally same, with the 6 speed having a 2nd overdrive added?

I don have the exact details for the gearing but I might be saying its better because the fact that my first experience with the 6 speed 1GR was with an LC300.
I have driven 1GR 200 but all 5 speed, the 6 speed 1GR came in 2018+.

The 1GR 300 sounds so much nicer when driving off road a swell vs LC200.
More sound pumped into the cabin, sound sportier.
Overall they really had no reason to change the base engine from the 1GR and they probably save lots of money by using it again.

Once the 4runner changes for the next generation, the only vehicle using the dual VVTI 1GR will be the LC300.
The fortuner/Hilux/LC70 all use the single VVTI 1GR.