"Your plugs are squirting coolant like the fountains at Bellagio"

[cruiserdan]

So has anyone figured what it would cost to do this as preventative maintenance these days?

Same as it costs to replace a bad one if that is the only problem.

Are the later year 1FZE motors any more reliable than the early ones wrt the headgasket?

Curtis
91-3FE

Worse actually.

 

[MH_Stevens]

How does this reconcile with the commonnotion thst these ehgines are good for 300,000 miles. If it happens without warning and keeping the cooling system in top notch does not prevent problem what CAN I do to diminish my fears. Is this just a weakness in the gasket? Is the engine body to light or thin for the temperature and pressure of the engine? Can any warning sensors be installed? Does testing for CO in the coolant give any advance warning?

Come on ... someone spill the beans and give us the rest of the story.

 

[landtank]

I did my brand of a PM. Which means minimal effort to obtain the desired result.

Bought a HG kit from Dan and pulled the head and replaced the gasket. No machining of any kind as it was a PM not a repair. 55k later and running great.

I've seen my HG as well as a few others and they seem to always let go at the rear of #6. Coincidentally Toyota has changed this area of the new HGs.

I'm repeating myself, but if you have the talet to do this yourself, get her done!

 

[IdahoDoug]

I don't think this was an example of a problem with the HG. Based on the evidence of the photos in the referred thread, and his comment that "it started a few weeks ago", this truck was badly neglected by its previous owner, then he bought it and continued to neglect it. I speculate that this truck has been low on coolant many, many times. It has also likely been overheated many, many times, run with old coolant for years, not flushed, used thermostats way after they should have been replaced, and the whole gamut. That radiator cap gasket is the worst I have ever seen in my life and I'd be surprised if it could hold more than a few pounds of pressure. The rest of the swollen hoses, water leaks, and such easily make a case that the 80's strength is perhaps highlighted by this incident rather than questioned - most engines would have fallen apart long ago under such duress. It's a badly abused engine - you can do nothing worse to an engine than overheat it.

I would not be so quick to judge, and I am amazed that some are willing to immediately point to some unknown HG design flaw by the world's acknowledged durability leader on the engine in its flagship offroad vehicle. Toyota is no stranger to stout engine design. Does that make sense?? What you are looking at here is clear and unmistakable engine neglect of the highest order, complete with photographic evidence and an admission by the owner that this was the case. Yet right away it's "defective design" perhaps out of pity for him and not wanting to state the obvious.

I feel badly for WSDavies that this is going to be expensive and painful to correct. But I really think some of you need to stop with this "defective HG or engine design" stuff. In the face of so much evidence that this continues to be the theme of this particular thread, it's simply uncalled for.

DougM

 

[Lars]

Doug,

Not a single person contributing to this thread is making a connection between the original poster's problems and head gasket failure.... other than the original poster himself.

MH_Stevens asked the question " And as a general question to the group, how common are HG woes with FJZ80's"

The half-dozen or so most recent posts here are nothing more than a thread hijack directed by the question above.

 

[Houston FZJ80]

I got a quote from our local dealer here... 14 hours - $1500 and change if it doesn't go to the machine shop.

 

[wsdavies]

I don't think this was an example of a problem with the HG. Based on the evidence of the photos in the referred thread, and his comment that "it started a few weeks ago", this truck was badly neglected by its previous owner, then he bought it and continued to neglect it. I speculate that this truck has been low on coolant many, many times. It has also likely been overheated many, many times, run with old coolant for years, not flushed, used thermostats way after they should have been replaced, and the whole gamut. That radiator cap gasket is the worst I have ever seen in my life and I'd be surprised if it could hold more than a few pounds of pressure. The rest of the swollen hoses, water leaks, and such easily make a case that the 80's strength is perhaps highlighted by this incident rather than questioned - most engines would have fallen apart long ago under such duress. It's a badly abused engine - you can do nothing worse to an engine than overheat it.

I would not be so quick to judge, and I am amazed that some are willing to immediately point to some unknown HG design flaw by the world's acknowledged durability leader on the engine in its flagship offroad vehicle. Toyota is no stranger to stout engine design. Does that make sense?? What you are looking at here is clear and unmistakable engine neglect of the highest order, complete with photographic evidence and an admission by the owner that this was the case. Yet right away it's "defective design" perhaps out of pity for him and not wanting to state the obvious.

I feel badly for WSDavies that this is going to be expensive and painful to correct. But I really think some of you need to stop with this "defective HG or engine design" stuff. In the face of so much evidence that this continues to be the theme of this particular thread, it's simply uncalled for.

DougM

I bought the 80 with 178k on it...it has less than 3000 miles on it now that the problems have arisen...I never knew about the head gasket issue until this occured...I wouldn't say I neglected the vehicle...I put $800 worth of new brakes on it and was fixing it as I had the money...I'm no mechanic I wouldn't know by looking that the hose was swollen...most engines I have ever seen have some degree of junk on them...Next time I'll pay my mechanic friend to come with me when I look at trucks...

I had no idea that

 

[landtank]

I bought the 80 with 178k on it...it has less than 3000 miles on it now that the problems have arisen...I never knew about the head gasket issue until this occured...I wouldn't say I neglected the vehicle...I put $800 worth of new brakes on it and was fixing it as I had the money...I'm no mechanic I wouldn't know by looking that the hose was swollen...most engines I have ever seen have some degree of junk on them...Next time I'll pay my mechanic friend to come with me when I look at trucks...

I had no idea that

Don't sweet Doug. You bought the truck and with the best intensions you were systematically approaching the repairs in a manner that you thought was correect. Brakes are never a waste of time!!!!

It's unfortunate but the 80s are not very forgiving when it comes to the cooling system. But I have personally seen 2 gaskets that were pulled for other reasons than having failed and they both had issues.

I suspect Doug one day will join those who have had to replace a HG. Hell, he's one of the few who have replaced his T-Case.

 

[MH_Stevens]

I don't wish to encourage hijacking this thread away from WS's need for help. I'm paranoid about this happening to me and I find no comfort when two very well respected Cruiser owners, IdahowDoug and and Landtank have such differing views. I read a lot on the HG issue before I bought my truck and I'm still much undecided on what I believe - I thirst for more knowlege. Maybe IdahoeDoug and Landtank should start a new joint thread to get this HG stuff out in the open and to solicit all the opinions that can be found. As for WS it does seem that based on the views of some who have see photgraphs (what photographs?) that prior owner neglect dicatated PM that be done before the truck was challenged and I'm sorry WS you did not have the time to get to this before this disaster. Maybe there were warnings of impending doom that the prior owner knew about.

 

[landtank]

Sorry but I don't see where we can help much with WS's situation. A mechanic has already extracted the engine and has his own opinions on what he is going to do. I might not aggree with his conclusions but offering a different opinion and encouraging some other action without seeing it in person could easily cause more problems for him with his mechanic as I could easily be completely wrong.

The HG issue is one of those areas where me and Doug will never aggree, at least as long as his hasn't failed yet.

Toyota made an engineering change to the HG. For any manufacturer to make such a change is enough for me to take it real serious. They didn't go through that expense because they had some engineers sitting around with nothing to do.

 

[cruiserdan]

This is my perspective.

First let me state that the 1FZ engine is one of the most advanced in-line 6 cylinder gasoline engines ever offered to the public, in addition to being one of the largest displacement.
The overall design and build quality of this engine is at the very top end as far as I am concerned. Limiting factors include, but are not limited to, "acceptable" gasket materials.
We are dealing with an engine that is composed of an iron block and an aluminum cylinder head. The result is dis-similar metals that react to temperature changes at different rates.
The challenge for the designers was to come up with gaskets that can deal effectively with the expansion rates of dis-similar metals.
Before asberstos fell from grace it was a prominent feature in head gaskets for all auto manufacturers and it was very effecive.
When asbestos fell from grace there was a scramble to find a suitable replacement and early "fixes" did not perform well in the long run. Toyota has, along with everyone else, changed head gasket part numbers for virtually all engines multiple times in the last several years (1FZ included) while they have searched for the best replacement.
My personal read is that the great long aluminum head on the great long iron block moves around a bit with every heat cycle and that may be part of the cause. The latest version of the head gasket is visibly different than the originals and is significantly reinforced. I further believe that if asbestos was not "offed" as a bad guy we would not be having this discussion.

D-

 

[IdahoDoug]

Rick,

I used to design vehicles for a living, and every single model in every single manufacturer's line undergoes dozens of changes each and every year to various parts. This change does not de facto mean there was a problem with the original gasket - could mean that a different supplier was chosen, or a change in available headgasket technology was adopted, or any of a dozen reasons that prompt running engineering and parts changes.

WS,

By "neglect" I do not mean intentional and willful failure to fix something that's going to cause damage. Under "neglect" I would also include your situation, which was simple unawareness of a problem that likely prompted the previous owner to sell it. The result is the same, however.

Sorry for the thread hijack. If someone wants to start a thread to discuss it, I'll participate as well.

DougM

 

[wsdavies]

What's really weird is that the mechanic said that it looks like this isn't the original engine in this car, that the harness had been cut..or something...I ran Carfax on it...it was 100% clean...It ran good..had good power...the body was 100% straight...new tires..the alignment was straight..the A/C blew Ice...I don't care at this point I figure for around 13k or so I'll have a nice rig with a brand new motor...Once I get the birfs done and the tranny serviced it'll be ready for service..The funniest thing is that it's my wife's car and I barely get to drive it...

 

[parabola]

This is my perspective.

First let me state that the 1FZ engine is one of the most advanced in-line 6 cylinder gasoline engines ever offered to the public, in addition to being one of the largest displacement.
The overall design and build quality of this engine is at the very top end as far as I am concerned. Limiting factors include, but are not limited to, "acceptable" gasket materials.
We are dealing with an engine that is composed of an iron block and an aluminum cylinder head. The result is dis-similar metals that react to temperature changes at different rates.
The challenge for the designers was to come up with gaskets that can deal effectively with the expansion rates of dis-similar metals.
Before asberstos fell from grace it was a prominent feature in head gaskets for all auto manufacturers and it was very effecive.
When asbestos fell from grace there was a scramble to find a suitable replacement and early "fixes" did not perform well in the long run. Toyota has, along with everyone else, changed head gasket part numbers for virtually all engines multiple times in the last several years (1FZ included) while they have searched for the best replacement.
My personal read is that the great long aluminum head on the great long iron block moves around a bit with every heat cycle and that may be part of the cause. The latest version of the head gasket is visibly different than the originals and is significantly reinforced. I further believe that if asbestos was not "offed" as a bad guy we would not be having this discussion.

D-

I must interject one thing here though. Toyota, in 93, already had an inline 6 engine that put out great horsepower and torque while dealing with ALOT of heat and didn't have head gasket issues. This engine was the 2JZGTE. Not only did this motor deal with stock conditions extremely well, it deals with absurd aftermarket conditions. In fact, it is the best HG for that motor, regardless of power output. There are at least a dozen cars putting out 1200-1500HP with stock displacement and on stock HG with this little 3L motor. Toyota must have learned something, somewhere to get this to happen; It wasn't a mistake. And yes, it is an iron block with an aluminum head. I have a new stock 2JZGTE HG sitting around here somewhere...

 

[IdahoDoug]

WS - do a search here or start a new thread on "things to do while rebuilding" as I recall some very sensible suggestions I believe from Robbie and Cdan on a couple things to do (a front oil seal, a new oil pressure reg spring, new pan arch seal near rear main, etc) that would guarantee uneventful motoring for 200,000 more miles. They were minor cost items for things you'd pay an arm and a leg to replace once the motor's back in place and I'd do them for sure.

Excellent comment, Parabola

DougM