Yearly front-end brake replacement?
- Thread starter NormDuke
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Trunk Monkey
Moderator
Get a new mechanic. Front brakes are an hour long job start to finish, about $60 for the pads. If you're capable of doing any work on your own, this is a good one, other than the lug nuts there's not a single other bolt to turn, just two pins. And they don't have to be done on a schedule - it depends entirely on your braking habits and use. Figure about 40k miles on a set, could be more if you brake heavy, could be less if you don't.
If you're talking rotors and not pads, also get a new mechanic, it's not a captive rotor. Does not have to be done on a schedule either, once again depends on how you drive.
There's good videos for both pads and rotors on Youtube.
If you're talking rotors and not pads, also get a new mechanic, it's not a captive rotor. Does not have to be done on a schedule either, once again depends on how you drive.
There's good videos for both pads and rotors on Youtube.
- Thread starter
- #3
Ok, apparently it's $525 for front brakes and rotors. He didn't specify brakes AND rotors.
Trunk Monkey
Moderator
Ok, he maybe he's using the term captive loosely, I've only heard it in terms of Accords and Hondas. Yes, you do have to dig into the hub to get the rotor off. So, if at that price you're including rotors and pads, then you're still a little high, but not gouging. Depending on your miles replacing the hub bearings and races is definitely a "while you're in there" as well. At a minimum repacking them with new grease.
And still, doesn't have to be done regularly, depends on your driving.
And still, doesn't have to be done regularly, depends on your driving.
By captive i think he meant that the rotors are held in by bearing/hub assembly, hence the price. Pads are easy to do, rotors on this truck is a little more complex. When i did my pads the 2 pins holding the pads together was completely rusted and seized. I had to remove caliper and torched them out. That's one of the issue you might run into when doing pads, another would be the slide pins also tend to get seized up and if it's bad enough you might need a new caliper. The joy of living in snow regions 
TRW front brake pads, $25 on Amazon, $70 with lifetime warranty from Autozone for the exact same brake pads.
I just did front and rear brake pads for $50, TRW, Amazon.
I just did front and rear brake pads for $50, TRW, Amazon.
2001LC
SILVER Star
Just a few notes guy's:
It's best practice to "turn" rotors (resurface either on or off vehicle) or replace if out of spec limit for one more "turn", whenever replacing pads. Be sure to use ceramic pads, and I always seat them (35MPH braking without coming to a stop, three times or more).
With my driving (city 50/50 HWY/street) style I get about ~90K on front pads & ~45K miles on rears.
It's best practice to "turn" rotors (resurface either on or off vehicle) or replace if out of spec limit for one more "turn", whenever replacing pads. Be sure to use ceramic pads, and I always seat them (35MPH braking without coming to a stop, three times or more).
With my driving (city 50/50 HWY/street) style I get about ~90K on front pads & ~45K miles on rears.
- Thread starter
- #8
Are the OEM pads ceramic?
2001LC
SILVER Star
Yes
That is best practice for people who want to sell you new rotors. Rotors can typically only be turned once, so that means every other brake job you're buying new rotors.
The only good, in my experience, for turning rotors is to prevent brake noise while the new pads are being broken in and "seat".
When you run a repair shop the last thing you want is a customer complaint that the brake job you just did was wrong because their brakes squeal. So you turn/replace the rotors. This saves you time and possible loss of business and increases revenue.
When you DIY, you don't care, let them squeal, it will stop. The pads will wear to match the rotors surface and you'll be good as gold.
The ONLY time I replace rotors is if they are warped or to thin to be safe, which is 200k on average for me.
2001LC
SILVER Star
I've no idea why you say one turn and done!
The only time I'd just "slip in new pads" without turning rotor would be a temp field repair.
I've turned my front and rear rotors twice now, which is typical. The first turn I had done at Dealer on vehicle at 60K. The rear pads where in-need of replacing so I had them do fronts at same time, that was a waste. Front on our 100 series last about 50% longer than rears, something I didn't know at the time. Had I waited until fronts actually needed servicing, they would have gone ~90K miles. Second turn would have been ~180k miles yield me ~270k miles on factory rotors. I've no brake noise, pulling, brake dust, squealing or peddle pulse.
Not turning or replacing rotors is a bad idea for a number of reasons. Sure your new pads will form to groove in rotors. But as you said they may squeal, something unacceptable to me! Second, they may pull which is not only unacceptable to me, it can activate ABS needlessly "not good". Thirdly the life of the pads & rotors may be severely reduce do to the uneven wear. Fourth is brake peddle pulsing, which can be uneven wear or warping. Turning yields a more even wear, also minor warping is corrected by turning.
I just had to replace rear rotors and pads needlessly early on a 100 series. From 1st inspection through inspect port of rear caliper, the pads looked fine with ~4.5mm on outer pads. But then I noticed brake dust and noise on test drives. Brake dust indicated wrong pad material, which I thought may accounted for noise as well. When I pulled rotors off rears, it was very apparent some shop just slapped on pads without turning rotors. Both inner sides of rear rotors looked very bad with deep grooves that just torn into pads. Oh but Shop saved time, customer felt they got a deal no doubt and all seemed good. But the shop would've known, by doing this customer will be back much sooner for next brake job. So in long run they make much more $$.
I can assure you no respectable shop would recommend just new pads, give Slee a call and ask them.
Here what not using best practice will get you.
These pads had ~10K miles on them. Look good, should get 20K to 40K miles more right!
Wong, rotor were not turned. Here's what rotors and pads looked like on back side of DS & PS. Hard to see depth of groves in picture, they're very deep and uneven just ripped up the pads.
These shops don't service pins & boots either, neither do they replace bleeder cap. Which all cause there own issue and can reduced life of caliper. A caliper properly service will last for life, something not done if just slipping in new pads.
Like not clean pins and securing boot properly.
Missing bleeder caps not only result in plugged bleeder's, it damage bleeder's, and can also damage caliper.
The above has changed the way I inspect brakes. I now pull all rotor, inspect back side of rotor & pads, boots of pins and leak test bleeder caps.
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Trunk Monkey
Moderator
Personally I'd only turn the rotors if they need it, definitely not every time I replace pads. If they're smooth and I'm not feeling any pulsing when I brake, no reason to have it done. There's an expense factor too. You should have the rotors turned on vehicle as it keeps any nuance with your truck in line with those rotors. Turning them off truck trues them to a machine, but not the truck. So, if you're turning them off truck every time, then maybe you're just repeating a defect. That comes from a Toy tech friend of mine that regularly saw vehicles come in where people have had their rotors turned off vehicle and then reported brake feel issues. Once they turned them with them still mounted, issues went away.
But then again I'm in "the replace the coil pack that is bad, not all 8" crowd.
But then again I'm in "the replace the coil pack that is bad, not all 8" crowd.
2001LC
SILVER Star
We turned drums only if we saw grooving or ridge, in a full service gas station I worked at as a teenager. My job was to get job done as fast as possible, not to milk customer ,we had 10 more waiting. Back then we only starting to hear about rotors, on race cars. We get may 10K on brake shoes and wheels were always black!
I've weight the issue of turning or not when rotors look good. My cost to turn is about $10 to $15 per rotor plus time & gas to drive 10 miles. I use premium pads that cost much more, as does my time for job that may need redoing, or that don't last as long. I find turning to be best practice. Also pads just seat better on fresh rotor period, and so last longer trouble free every time. It's why I say "best practice"!
I've heard what you saying TM, about on vehicle being better, IDK. I do know if fronts are turned on vehicle then there is no need to service wheel bearings at same time, nice if not do. But if off vehicle lathe machine is true, well that's good enough for me and in some cases better. I say this because if wheel hubs are not true or bearings are loose or snap ring gap to wide well then we've a problem don't we. As we're turning into a difficult condition.
I do like both ways but I don't have the equipment, so it's cost effective for me to take rotors to a machine shop. The two machine shop I use for off vehicle, both do a great job. They're recommend by most parts store & shop (one's that don't turn in store/shop) in Denver. They also reports back to me any starting or ending specs of concern or if I'm hitting limit so I can scheduled next service with new.
Have I ever just replace shoes or pads without turning, yes. Have I ever had too redo those, yes. I've never had issue or redone when turned or new rotor matched with new pads and seating properly, NO.
I too would only replace coils that have gone bad, if I every found one (knock on wood). But then I replace spark plugs often in set of 8, to get more life out of coils!
I've weight the issue of turning or not when rotors look good. My cost to turn is about $10 to $15 per rotor plus time & gas to drive 10 miles. I use premium pads that cost much more, as does my time for job that may need redoing, or that don't last as long. I find turning to be best practice. Also pads just seat better on fresh rotor period, and so last longer trouble free every time. It's why I say "best practice"!
I've heard what you saying TM, about on vehicle being better, IDK. I do know if fronts are turned on vehicle then there is no need to service wheel bearings at same time, nice if not do. But if off vehicle lathe machine is true, well that's good enough for me and in some cases better. I say this because if wheel hubs are not true or bearings are loose or snap ring gap to wide well then we've a problem don't we. As we're turning into a difficult condition.
I do like both ways but I don't have the equipment, so it's cost effective for me to take rotors to a machine shop. The two machine shop I use for off vehicle, both do a great job. They're recommend by most parts store & shop (one's that don't turn in store/shop) in Denver. They also reports back to me any starting or ending specs of concern or if I'm hitting limit so I can scheduled next service with new.
Have I ever just replace shoes or pads without turning, yes. Have I ever had too redo those, yes. I've never had issue or redone when turned or new rotor matched with new pads and seating properly, NO.
I too would only replace coils that have gone bad, if I every found one (knock on wood). But then I replace spark plugs often in set of 8, to get more life out of coils!
I agree that when having your brakes done at a shop the shop should turn the rotors. There are many reasons, just like you and I both said.
I personally do not care about brake squeal for a week.
As for the brake pads lasting longer when matched to a fresh rotor surface, who cares if you get 70k instead of 90? Pads are $25 per axle for high end ceramic pads.
I said turn once and you're done because when I used to take my cars in thats what they did, turned the rotors, new pads with lifetime warranty, great deal right? NOT!! Next time around rotors are to thin and need to be replaced, with the shop rotors which are marked up for huge profit, want to bring in your own rotors? Then you loose the warranty.
It was a rip off for people like me, I went in for the $60/axle brake deal and always got soaked for hundreds of dollars.
So I stopped being lazy and started doing my own brakes.
At work, we do not replace rotors until they are so thin the veins show (not really, but we do run them until they're no good, they warp when they're to thin)
If you're pads are wearing different at the top than the bottom for example, then you have a caliper problem not a rotor problem.
The DIY person can still service the caliper slides. I just did my brakes two weeks ago, the slide pins were rusty, so I cleaned them up, lubed the hell out of them and everything is good to go again.
Again, doing a brake job as a shop owner, when your reputation is on the line, different story than the DIYer who is on a auto forum and may not only be budget minded but may also have limited resources, like no ride to the place that turns rotors.
I personally do not care about brake squeal for a week.
As for the brake pads lasting longer when matched to a fresh rotor surface, who cares if you get 70k instead of 90? Pads are $25 per axle for high end ceramic pads.
I said turn once and you're done because when I used to take my cars in thats what they did, turned the rotors, new pads with lifetime warranty, great deal right? NOT!! Next time around rotors are to thin and need to be replaced, with the shop rotors which are marked up for huge profit, want to bring in your own rotors? Then you loose the warranty.
It was a rip off for people like me, I went in for the $60/axle brake deal and always got soaked for hundreds of dollars.
So I stopped being lazy and started doing my own brakes.
At work, we do not replace rotors until they are so thin the veins show (not really, but we do run them until they're no good, they warp when they're to thin)
If you're pads are wearing different at the top than the bottom for example, then you have a caliper problem not a rotor problem.
The DIY person can still service the caliper slides. I just did my brakes two weeks ago, the slide pins were rusty, so I cleaned them up, lubed the hell out of them and everything is good to go again.
Again, doing a brake job as a shop owner, when your reputation is on the line, different story than the DIYer who is on a auto forum and may not only be budget minded but may also have limited resources, like no ride to the place that turns rotors.
