Would You Buy a Diesel 200?

[cruiserdan]

Central Office Production Order.

The central office could order vehicles specially built that were not offered. That's how they built 427 Camaros, 396 Novas and L88 Corvettes (among others).

 

[40Man]

Central Office Production Order.

The central office could order vehicles specially built that were not offered. That's how they built 427 Camaros, 396 Novas and L88 Corvettes (among others).

I do not see Toyota ever doing that unfortunately.

 

[cruiserdan]

I personally think a U.S. spec (safety updates) 70 series diesel would be a great sell, but it would compete with the 4Runner too much, so I do not see it happen. I would take one over any other vehicle on the market.

The costs to bring this vehicle to the US market would put it at a price-point as high, if not higher than, the 200. Hardly 4Runner territory.


One very spendy cup holder. I'd buy one in a second.

In at least my case a 4Runner would never compete with a 70, regardless of price points.

I am not a 4Runner buyer, period.

 

[40Man]

The costs to bring this vehicle to the US market would put it at a price-point as high, if not higher than, the 200. Hardly 4Runner territory.


One very spendy cup holder. I'd buy one in a second.

In at least my case a 4Runner would never compete with a 70, regardless of price points.

I am not a 4Runner buyer, period.

Outside of emission standards updating, some safety features (which I have no idea on costs, but that fact that a Corolla has them and still sells cheap) I do not believe the pricing would be that high. They brought a 30th anniversary edition of the 70 to Japan. My buddy there was luckily able to acquire one IIRC for mid 30s iirc, above sticker due to the high demand and limited supply. It has updated safety features compared to the AUS version, which has a much higher MSRP for some reason.

I think a modern 70 could fit the niche the FJ Cruiser was supposed to (hard to imagine price point would need to be different either), but have a broader audience. Outside of your preference, I still think a lot of 4runner owners would drift towards a 70 if the option was available.

 

[cruiserdan]

There is one other small matter.

70 Series production is maxed out as is and they sell every one they can produce in the markets where they are already established. There is no incentive to expand to new markets.

 

[40Man]

There is one other small matter.

70 Series production is maxed out as is and they sell every one they can produce in the markets where they are already established. There is no incentive to expand to new markets.

If they sell that well, there seems to be a huge incentive to mass produce/expand production/make in other plants and sell elsewhere as well.

But again, I think 4R sales would drop. Maybe make the next iteration of 4R based off the 70. I know it won't happen...

 

[TeCKis300]

While I understand the draw of diesel and potential diesel performance, I think one has to ask themselves what they would like to see improved over the current 5.7. Put another way, what's lacking about the current drivetrain?

I personally think the current 5.7 hits all the marks. It's incredibly tractable with gobs of torque, including the all important low end torque. I've experienced many other gas motors where they sacrifice low in torque for high end hp. That's not this motor. Yet, it's incredibly powerful, with hp to spare. I can objectively state this as I've actually towed with my LX570, and I want for nothing torque and power wise. This is on 33's no less, so with stock sized tires, the performance (gearing) is actually even better. The newer 8-speeds, better again. Those going larger tires, can always get their mojo back by regearing if they think the 5.7 is lacking.

I'm likely one of the few who has actually run the vehicle anywhere max GCWR (14400lbs). Recently did a 2300mile trip, with a family of 6 in the car with gear + 7500lb travel trailer in tow, loaded with full tanks. If anything, I was likely just over GCWR. Towed through serious mountain ranges of CA and Oregon, including the grapevine. The 5.7 gasser is smooth and tractable, needed little rpm to truck along on the highway. Grades require spinning the motor more, but there's no significant NVH and the anxiety it brings. Smooth and a low great sounding growl on the contrary. I can always hold highway speed or pass on grades, and I don't find myself needing to let anyone get around me due to a lack of power. Though I often do ease up on grades for efficiency.

I'll agree that efficiency is the one area where a diesel can excel. Increased efficiency to make a tank to longer and farther. Though a gas motor can augmented to go longer and farther too, especially with the aux tanks close readily available. That's where I'll be banking my money. I don't tow and haul enough where a diesel motors efficiency and cost advantage would be a benefit. And oftentimes, is a false cost savings, as up front and maintenance costs can be significantly more, negating any advantage..

 

[cruiserdan]

Being fortunate enough to have experienced both the 5.7 gas engine and a chipped twin turbo 4.5 diesel, I'd take the diesel.

 

[hobbes]

The 70 series would be a sales disaster in the US. The only people that want them would, mostly those here, be waiting for the leases to expire so they can buy them used. Like CDan said, the people actually buying NEW or leasing expensive vehicles wouldn’t want them.

I was “building” a new Brand X car online the other day. I was amazed how many options there were. Options would be nice.

 

[40Man]

The 70 series would be a sales disaster in the US. The only people that want them would, mostly those here, be waiting for the leases to expire so they can buy them used. Like CDan said, the people actually buying NEW or leasing expensive vehicles wouldn’t want them.

I was “building” a new Brand X car online the other day. I was amazed how many options there were. Options would be nice.

Building a U.S. based SUV in the FJ pricepoint, but in a design for a more broad based audience would get sales. Why would the 70 not fit that mold? It is ridiculous to say a 70 type suv would need to be that expensive. I would also love to see Toyota build a modern FJ 40 to compete with the CHeep, which has no competition in that segment. I know it will never happen, so need to debate but IMO, both would be desirable to a lot of consumers.

 

[hobbes]

In the US, think Toyota’s point might be they’ve already had the 70 series replacement here. It was the 80 series. No pesky rough leaf springs, equal track (though that issue came later with the 1VD), SFA, three lockers, and TWO cup holders (option for a third).

I think Toyota has said no SFAs in the US. If true, you can sort of go from there. Personally, I think you could mash the two 150 series here into a pretty nice setup, but I’d prefer the global optioned Prado (AHS?, spare on door, aux tank, locker, diesel option). Doubt they do that though.

 

[Ghostrider I]

Ok, why doesn't Toyota export the newest version of the 70 in a Diesel to compete with the upcoming Wrangler Unlimited Diesel?

 

[hobbes]

Because they don’t want to lose money?

Edit: Just out of curiosity, for those who think the 70 series would sell in the US I’d ask what are those potential buyers currently buying? If it’s a Toyota product, why bother? Also, do a search for the Chicken Tax, because that would impact the price.

 

[studawg]

The 70 series would be a sales disaster in the US. The only people that want them would, mostly those here, be waiting for the leases to expire so they can buy them used. Like CDan said, the people actually buying NEW or leasing expensive vehicles wouldn’t want them.

I was “building” a new Brand X car online the other day. I was amazed how many options there were. Options would be nice.

Im just not sure thats true, look at the number of 4 door Wrangler hardtops running around. With lifts, bumpers, winches, snorkels etc....they are EVERYWHERE.

 

[hobbes]

They are very popular by me for sure. Every stop light. Jeep “sells” the freedom image of top down and doors off, among other things. Toyota has no such product. Right now, not even in their two concept vehicles this year. And that’s certainly not the image the 70 series invokes.

 

[Ghostrider I]

Ok, Hobbes I get you. With that said, resurrect the 40. The FJ didn't even come close.

 

[hobbes]

Take the 80 suspension, 70 modern powertrain, 40 form and target the JK/L? I’d love it. Maybe Toyota will change their philosophy some day towards that. Right now, I don’t even like their concepts. Neither does anyone else around here...

But who knows, maybe we’ll all be pleasantly surprised one day...

 

[hobbes]

Being fortunate enough to have experienced both the 5.7 gas engine and a chipped twin turbo 4.5 diesel, I'd take the diesel.
View attachment 1588854

Is there a twin turbo LHD version? I know we’ve seen the single turbo make it to LHD.

 

[M1911]

Ok, why doesn't Toyota export the newest version of the 70 in a Diesel to compete with the upcoming Wrangler Unlimited Diesel?

Because it would be twice the cost of the Wrangler.

 

[Chocolate]

My buddy there was luckily able to acquire one IIRC for mid 30s iirc, above sticker due to the high demand and limited supply. It has updated safety features compared to the AUS version, which has a much higher MSRP for some reason.

I think a modern 70 could fit the niche the FJ Cruiser was supposed to (hard to imagine price point would need to be different either), but have a broader audience. Outside of your preference, I still think a lot of 4runner owners would drift towards a 70 if the option was available.

toyota.jp/landcruiser/ - Translator



トヨタ ランドクルーザー | トヨタ自動車WEBサイト

Interestingly, Toyota also sells the most expensive trim level of the Land Cruiser in Japan for about 60,000 dollars (~23k less than the US market) with the 4.6L V8 and 6 speed transmission.