Would You Buy a Diesel 200?

[M1911]

Old, naturally-aspirated diesels would run forever, but they were heavy with iron blocks, and developed very low horsepower. As a result, they were very understressed. Today’s lightweight, high horsepower, turbocharged direct injection diesels are a very different beast. In the boating world, I’ve read one article where the author basically said you could get only so much horsepower-hours out of an engine — a low power diesel would last a long time, but not develop a lot of peak horsepower. In contrast, high power turbo-diesels develop high horsepower, but for a much shorter period of time — that is, high horsepower diesels don’t last anywhere near as long as the old, understressed, naturally-aspirated diesels. In addition, the current emissions regulations significantly increase the complexity, cost, and fuel consumption of Diesel engines.

While I would carefully consider a diesel LC, if it were available in the US, the reality is that it just won’t happen. The cost to federalize a new drivetrain is enormous. Toyota can justify multiple drivetrains for vehicles with large production runs (like the Camry) because the engineering cost is amortized across hundereds of thousands of units. But Toyota only sells a few thousand LCs per year, so the cost to federalize a diesel drivetrain just doesn’t make financial sense.

 

[mooneywa]

The biggest hinderance to me ever buying a diesel - whether it is in a cruiser, a 3/4 ton, whatever... is the new-ish emissions controls on it. The reliability has decreased so drastically because of higher temps and more complex components. The irony is that while these are I suppose "well-intended" to reduce emissions, they seem to miss the forest for the trees. When you factor in environmental impacts for the replacement costs for diesel parts, entire engines, or heck an entire truck at 100k (because that's the mileage expected without major work on these engines now), and so on and so forth I can't help but wonder if it's close to net-neutral environmentally - and certainly a loss in the pocket book.

Anecdotally the Ram Eco Diesel is barely getting past 100k. The LM5 Duramax is having injector issues and continual DEF/regen problems well prior to 100k. Ford 6.4 and 6.7s derive most of their issues from emissions controls. Do I think Toyota has the ability to buy build the most reliable EPA compliant engine out there? Sure, but I still don't think it'll equate to a 7.3/LB7/GEN 2 24V 5.9.

The draws to buying a diesel used to be increased mileage and longevity. Those are gone unless I see otherwise.

 

[M1911]

In addition, I suspect the 5.7l gas engine will likely go 250k miles with basic maintenance, so the longevity advantage of diesels is diminished.

 

[TeCKis300]

In addition, I suspect the 5.7l gas engine will likely go 250k miles with basic maintenance, so the longevity advantage of diesels is diminished.

Right. I can't see any other powerplant, diesel or whatever, offering meaningfully more durability than the current 5.7. Except for the starter which is more of an accessory, it's proven to be a gem of a motor. Canguru Racing's testament of the motor especially, with it being use race after race, in the baja no less, has been especially impressive.

 

[Markuson]

Or just do away with CAFE standards all together. If people want a high mpg car, they have options to buy them. If people want to buy a gas guzzler or diesel, the people should have that option too. Regulation is silly. Laissez-faire capitalism works.


Unless you're in California, where they love regulation, and manslaughter is perfectly legal.

Well some of us "Kalifornistanians" HATE the regulations here... Utterly ridiculousness gone wild in Sacramento.

I swear, they pass laws here as though they are TRYING to drive people out of the state....only to turn around and pay for dumb commercials to try and attract people to come here.

 

[DeckerT4R]

The biggest hinderance to me ever buying a diesel - whether it is in a cruiser, a 3/4 ton, whatever... is the new-ish emissions controls on it. The reliability has decreased so drastically because of higher temps and more complex components. The irony is that while these are I suppose "well-intended" to reduce emissions, they seem to miss the forest for the trees. When you factor in environmental impacts for the replacement costs for diesel parts, entire engines, or heck an entire truck at 100k (because that's the mileage expected without major work on these engines now), and so on and so forth I can't help but wonder if it's close to net-neutral environmentally - and certainly a loss in the pocket book.

Anecdotally the Ram Eco Diesel is barely getting past 100k. The LM5 Duramax is having injector issues and continual DEF/regen problems well prior to 100k. Ford 6.4 and 6.7s derive most of their issues from emissions controls. Do I think Toyota has the ability to buy build the most reliable EPA compliant engine out there? Sure, but I still don't think it'll equate to a 7.3/LB7/GEN 2 24V 5.9.

The draws to buying a diesel used to be increased mileage and longevity. Those are gone unless I see otherwise.

Duramaxs have always had injector issues but are getting better. The “LM5”, I assume you mean the new L5P? Hard to say it’s having issues since it just came out. We shall see. All new gen diesel truck emissions components have come a LONG way. I had 2 6.4 fords. That was he first gen of emissions. They had some issues with emissions components sure. So did cars in the 70’s when catalytic converters came out, right? The ford 6.7 doesn’t have these issues. The dodge 6.7s handle them as well. The L5P we will see, it’s a completely new everything.

I agree about the old 7.3 powerstroke and 5.9 Cummings being iconic for being 1,000,000 mile trucks. That said I have had 2 different 6.4’s with well over 200k miles at over 600hp with no issues when I sold them and now a 6.7 with 212k on the clock. Original everything. Diesels may not go 800,000 miles anymore because of increased performance but 400,000 is pretty darn common.

 

[Climbingnut]

I bought the 200 GX-R Twin turbo V8 and love it. I also tow a lot off-road, like the fuel economy, and ease of finding diesel here in Angola. If I was in the USA and Toyota ever decided to offer any of their diesel options, I'd be throwing my money at them. I've owned the 4.2 24 valve 1HD-FT turbo diesel in my 95' 80 series as well, and preferred it hands down to the 4.5 petrol in the 80 series. Alas, we'll never get the lovely turbo diesel's that are found across Africa, Australia, S. America, and the Middle East. Emissions restrictions would choke the life out of them.

 

[Rex9802]

How are the Range Rover Diesels selling? Let's say there was a slight chance (which I think there is no chance)- they would probably use the RR #'s for sales comps.

A good friend of mine- who is impartial to environmental benefits/ gas mileage, etc- did the math for his new RR and turned the diesel down because it was a "break even" and seemed like a hassle.

One of the car show girls from Toyota told me they considered a small diesel in the Taco a few years back but nixed it around '08 in the economic turmoil. "Don't rock the boat" was their mentality. I bet there is more of a chance for a small diesel in the Taco/ 4 runner over the LC, ,, maybe---but I bet still a long shot I like their small diesel- I drove a diesel Hilux and rode in a diesel Prado a few times when I was working overseas.-- I loved them.

Speaking of a hassle- why are you guys so bent out of shape on the Blu Fluid additive- like once every 5 years you have to add 5 gallons or something- no big deal IMO. Keep it topped off- along with your washer fluid, gas, waxing the truck, etc.

Bottom line- The diesels would probably fetch a premium on the used car market and not the new sales. I can't imagine Toyota is concerned about that. They have plenty of research going into these boards and this is an age old request.

 

[hj 60]

Over-here in Europe the dutch road tax for diesel will be raised in 2019 with 15% (already twice as much as gasoline) so the battle has begun quietly.
All regular joe's will have to give up diesel and lpg gas and switch to electric, media is consequently mentioning diesel as killer dirty.

 

[OGBeno]

There will be a Toyota diesel shortly for the US market. Just not in a Land Cruiser.

 

[Markuson]

There will be a Toyota diesel shortly for the US market. Just not in a Land Cruiser.

Tundra, no?

That would at least be a gap in the armor for possible future...?

 

[OGBeno]

Tundra, no?

That would at least be a gap in the armor for possible future...?

Toyota diesels do not compete in that range.

 

[cruiserdan]

If they offered diesels as part of their regular stock? Heck ya!

I would be hesitant to buy one imported from elsewhere, though...but only because Toyota doesn't have the service/supply lines in place here to support it.

I'd be more concerned about what would happen when the EPA finds out about that non-compliant, illegally-imported, vehicle. That 4x4 foot metal cube they would turn it into would look out of place in the driveway.

 

[ryanCA]

There will be a Toyota diesel shortly for the US market. Just not in a Land Cruiser.

Finally in the Taco to compete with the GM twins and new Ranger ?

 

[TonyP]

I would rather see the 25 year import rule be trimmed down a bit. Something like Canada's 15 year would be nice, or 10 year so we can get the facelifted 79 with the 1VD.

 

[Ghostrider I]

Let's put things into perspective.... Would a well-heeled Yuppie want a Diesel Cruiser? Dollars to doughnuts, I say hell to the no. However, the serious SUV/Truck driver would go Diesel. Or, let the customer make the choice- make it an optional drivetrain. I just wish Toyota would export more itierations of the Cruiser, not just the 200. Frankly, I think the new 4Runner looks like something out of a Transformers movie/video game.

Bring in the 70(?), Prado, and the pickup. Ditch the 4Runner, and perhaps the Sequoia what was the point of that behemouth?. I may be a newish owner of an 26 year old 80 and it is an old/new school Diesel, no emissions, but direct injection, yet damn, this rig is fun to drive. Once that beast is at op-temp, it just wants to run, slog, and climb.

GM back in the 80s really made the American public disillusioned about Diesel, yet you see it in Europe where it reigns the choice.

 

[cruiserdan]

The normal American motorist (probably 97% of us) will not plunk down 80 grand for a buckboard riding commercial vehicle with a clutch pedal and ONE cup holder. Toyota recognizes this and has acted accordingly.

On the other hand it would be really cool if Toyota had a version of General Motors' COPO program. That way the few well-healed purists in the US could get one of the finest vehicles ever crafted.

 

[cruiserdan]

GM back in the 80s really made the American public disillusioned about Diesel, yet you see it in Europe where it reigns the choice.

It wasn't only GM. Toyota had a hand in it as well. Early 80's pickups and a hand full of Corollas and Camrys. Slow, noisy, expensive to keep up, expensive to buy and not all that more economical on fuel.

Europeans probably like diesel because gas is 8 bucks a gallon

 

[Ghostrider I]

Cruiserdan, what is COPO?

 

[40Man]

I personally think a U.S. spec (safety updates) 70 series diesel would be a great sell, but it would compete with the 4Runner too much, so I do not see it happen. I would take one over any other vehicle on the market.