Won't start - no spark after rebuild

[jonheld]

You need a new FPD. They are calibrated from the factory. If it was leaking fuel from inside the cap then the internal diaphragm is fractured. Considering where it sits in location to the exhaust manifold, I would replace it with new and move on. It's over 20 years old. Same can be said for the FPR. These items have a limited lifespan.

The FPD works the same way that an anti water hammer expansion tank works in your home. It absorbs the pulsations from the fuel rail for better fuel delivery.

The FPR regulates the fuel pressure inside the fuel rail by varying the amount of return according to vacuum pressure to the internal diaphragm.

A bad FPR can damage the internal check valve in the fuel pump.

 

[jcarter]

How does Fuel Pulsation Damper work?

Thanks Jon, I'll order them.

Can you answer me this, HOW DOES FUEL GET PAST THE FPD?

It screws into the fuel rail via a threaded tube. The fuel line eye has a hole in it, but there is NO hole in the threaded tube. See pic.


The only thing that makes sense is fuel goes up into the top part, then back down the threaded tube. But I can't see a slot to allow fuel to go up.

 

[jcarter]

After further inspection and some internet research, it appears there is a collar near the cap of the FPD that moves up when under pressure. The philips screw "grabs" the diaphram and pulls it up to let fuel into the rail.

Also, the eye end of the fuel line has a permanent collar near the rail ONLY allowing fuel to go up away from the rail.

Since my screw was near off, I'm going to reinstall it with screw tighter. I'm going to get some new crushers and just see if I can get pressure in the rail. I'm ordering new, so have time to play.

 

[jcarter]

I bought one from Advanced Auto Parts ($35). After screwing with a shorty trying to tighten it, I finally loosened the air intake big metal thing and propped it out of my way. Put it on, tested it, fuel came out of the fuel rail where CSI goes, put air intake back in place to tighten that up, not leaking at the FPD. Took off retun hose and fuel spilled out. Now I'm sure I have fuel in the fuel rail, YES!

Put her back together. Ain't started, but trying. Fuel has been eliminated!

 

[jcarter]

fuel pulsation damper

Back to that thing. I'm going to get a new one, but I believe mine was siezed up where the collar wouldn't go up and allow fuel to get into the top. Look at first pic.


I tried pounding the ring back up in there (getting a new one, so who cares). Old one with collar pounded in on left, notice the new one on the right with gap to let fuel in the top (a bit blurry).


New one doesn't have a screw on top. This must "adjust" something but I can't find anything in the FSM about it. Only says 22 ft-lbs for torque on it, but I believe it needs much more not to leak.

Anyhow, now I'm confident I have gas and spark. I believe it's WAY out of time or flooded so won't start. I think I'll pull the coil, pull EFI fuse, floor it to open choke, and turn her over with the starter for a bit to get it unflooded, put it back together and try to start it again.

If I can get it started, just to stay at idle tonight, I'll have all day tomorrow to tune it up and get it running right ONLY messing with the ignition.

BY GOD I BELIEVE I'M CLOSE!!!

 

[Pin_Head]

If it was out of time, it wouldn't have run when you poured fuel in; it would have backfired or popped back through the carb.

If it is flooded, you just hold the pedal to the metal while cranking and let up when it catches.

 

[jcarter]

No carb. I cleared it out like I said and it started, but had to keep the pedal in it to keep it going. I'm going to adjust the idle screw tomorrow and get it running on it's own.

Question: I have a HUGE exhaust leak at the manifold. Although loud, I can still run it, set idle, & time it, right?

 

[Pin_Head]

No carb.
Question: I have a HUGE exhaust leak at the manifold. Although loud, I can still run it, set idle, & time it, right?

Throttle body then.

Once it runs, verify oil pressure and temperature, then set the timing and idle speed. You can fix the exhaust leak later.

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

jcarter, your saga is one for the ages. With patience and perseverance, you will be victorious. And generations of mudders will sing songs of your triumph.

 

[jcarter]

Oil pressure is good, jumps up when trying to start.
Will let it warm up and do timing and idle speed. Thanks for the tip.

Back on it tomorrow.

 

[jcarter]

Yo Slim,
An idiot not giving up, that'd be me. My wife aint too happy, but I'm enjoying it. Even though I get pissed, it's all part of it.

I'm really looking forward to getting it going and see if I actually fixed the darn thing. I think tomorrow is my day. I get it running and can finally pull it out of the driveway and give the wife back her parking spot.

Then, drive it and report back to my original thread where people are waiting to see if what I did was foolish or not.

Joe

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

Yo Slim,
An idiot not giving up, that'd be me. My wife aint too happy, but I'm enjoying it. Even though I get pissed, it's all part of it.

I'm really looking forward to getting it going and see if I actually fixed the darn thing. I think tomorrow is my day. I get it running and can finally pull it out of the driveway and give the wife back her parking spot.

Then, drive it and report back to my original thread where people are waiting to see if what I did was foolish or not.

Joe

I really feel for you. I follow this thread closely even though i have a completely different engine.

And i feel lucky that I know a guy who builds engines at a machine shop for a living. It's all he does - final assembly, day after day. I've seen him take an olds 350 from a bare block to running in just shy of 21 minutes.

 

[jonheld]

New one doesn't have a screw on top. This must "adjust" something but I can't find anything in the FSM about it.

You know, I find it very frustrating that I'm trying to help you and you don't read my posts. Perhaps your reading comprehension is not what it used to be

I said, "You need a new FPD. They are calibrated from the factory."
That means they shouldn't be adjusted. There's a REASON you don't see the procedure in the FSM.

For something that deals with fuel pressure and sits right in the fuel rail, directly above the exhaust manifold, I wouldn't have gone with a cheap aftermarket part. But that's me.

There is no "idle adjustment screw" on a 3FE motor. If you're referring to the "golden screw" on the forward facing part of the intake plenum, that is there to set the static air intake before the ISC valve. The idle speed is adjusted by the ISC valve according to sensor feedback to the ECU. I have found that tightening that screw all the way in and backing it off 1/4 to 1/2 a turn is perfect.
It will have a TEMPORARY effect on idle speed, but the ECU will push the ISC to make the idle correct according to its programming.

 

[jcarter]

Jon, I read the "factory calibrated", but only realize you were talking about the screw adjustment now. I also agree cheap, aftermarket is not a good way to go, but getting it running soon is more important and worth $35 especially now that I know how to install it.

I'm taking your advice and ordering new FPD and FPR. This spring when it's warm, I'm going to install these and put new connectors for my injectors.

I'll read more about the idle. IIRC I screwed it in all the way and barely unscrewed it. I'll put it as you recommend.

Getting a late start this morning, jaw was swollen from surgery last night, took a pain pill, still a bit groggy. I'm sure my neighbors are grateful considering the bad exhaust connection at manifold. Going to be a LOUD day.

 

[jcarter]

That didn't read right: . . .jaw was swollen from surgery on Thursday, so I took a pain pill, ....

 

[jcarter]

VICTORY!

She's running AWESOME!

Work done:
Had my neighbor over who is a motorhead. She would start, but not keep idle, had to keep pumping the gas to keep her going. We heard a LOUD "sucking" noise, found a small vacuum line off, so put it on. A little better, but not much.

We still heard the loud sucking noise. While I kept it running, neighbor walked around the engine trying to pin it down. Stuck his finger over a hole in the EGR valve. SMOOTHED OUT & IDLED PERFECT!

Seems when you get a BRAND NEW EGR VALVE, the "plug" doesn't come with it. In the FSM it calls for a "EGR Gas Temp. Sensor" for California cars goes in this threaded hole, where my old one was simply plugged. I'll bet that's what the spare elec plug in that area is for.

Pic shows old EGR installed. Notice plug under square bolt in middle right of pic.


Dug through the whole trashcan piece by piece. I broke the old EGR getting it off the flexible exhaust hose that was stuck in it. IT'S THE ONLY PART I ACTUALLY PITCHED WITH THE HOUSE TRASH! Since it was all broken up, figured I didn't need it.

My neighbor brought over a bucket of old plugs. ALL are NOT metric, but we found one that I could start enough to hold.

Started it up, WOW! Perfect idle at about 650RPM. Smooth as silk!

I couldn't get the exhaust pipe on the manifold very well, so there's smoke from burning antisieze, but I've never heard her so smooth, EVER! No more clacking lifters, quiet, really nice!

Yet to do this afternoon:
I still have a stay off the air plenum and need to fill & dispose of some old oil & antifreeze. Then I'll warm her up again and check the timing. It's running so well, I'm probably not going to mess with it, but would like to see where it is.

Question: FSM says 7 degrees before top dead center (BTDC) and in the miniscule timing window there appears to be a larger circle that seems to be this 7 degree mark. This is with TE1 & E1 shorted. Then it says to unshort them and should be approximately 12 degrees BTDC, is there at timing mark there too?

Gas: She's a little wet on gas line going to the FPD & at the fuel filter connection, but not even a drip, just moist. I'm wondering if it's condensation from cold gas being in the warm line. I'll keep an eye on it.

Monday:
Up to Midas to fix the exhaust and inspect it. Afternoon for new plates. Evening for break-in drive.

I'd like to thank all of you for getting me through this project. I couldn't have done it without you. Pinhead and Jon, you're the best. Kernal and Slim, I appreciate the "you can do it" when I was about to give up.

 

[jcarter]

Oh yeah, 2nd pic shows EGR with plug missing.

 

[Timpanogos Slim]

Congratulations! May she bring you years of motoring

 

[jonheld]

***in-A JCarter. ***in-A!

I don't remember having to mess with a plug when I replaced my EGR sensor and modulator, but it was years ago. I'll have to go out and look under the bonnet.

In any case, that 3FE should be running like a top with all the work you put in. Good luck with it.

 

[mossman40]

Hell yeah! I was to the point of not getting any sleep, watching this thread. Now I can relax. Well done from jcarter to all the helpers. Some of these people on here are amazing when it comes to helping others. They should be able to write the time off their taxes as charity work !