Won't start - no spark after rebuild

[jcarter]

See "Bad #2 Piston. . .".

Got her all back together. Starter is tuning her over, seems I got gas. Doesn't have spark.

Any ideas? Diagnostic help of ignition?

 

[Pin_Head]

Did you get your distributor in right? You can either be at top dead center for number one or number six.

 

[jcarter]

Thanks, but it's before the distibutor. In right or wrong, it'll still send spark to the plugs, just not at the right time.

I put a timing light on #1 just to see if it'd light and it didn't. I'm going to test from coil to distributor to see if spark is to the distributor.

Joe

 

[SiRaDuDe]

IF you dont have one yet - get an FSM...

Then go to:

IGNITION SYSTEM​

ON−VEHICLE INSPECTION

and follow steps... report back with findings...

Should only take a few minutes..

 

[jcarter]

Test #1: Pulled the coil wire off the distributor. Cranked her over while holding near bolt holding down the air cleaner. NO SPARK.

Test #2: With ignition on, I tested the voltage from + of coil to - of battery, 12.5V. So power is getting to the "input" plug of the coil.

Test #3: While on voltage, I checked the voltage across the fusible links, both at 12.5V.

Test #4: Put meter on 200 ohms, tested the "input" connection on the coil, FSM says 0.3 to 0.6 ohms. I've got a crappy meter that read 3.1 ohms. Then I put the 2 probes together and it said 2.6 ohms. So, I've got about 0.5 ohms.

Test #5: Put a probe on the + of "input" coil connection and - at the wire terminal. 13k ohms. FSM says 9-15k ohms.

Still can't figure out why I'm not getting any spark from the coil? Seems everything is in spec?

 

[SiRaDuDe]

Guys correct me if I'm wrong, but you will never get a spark from the coil to distributor wire, like you do from a spark plug...

If you think your coil is good and sending voltage then...

Remove distributor cap...

1. Verify you have the rotor installed

2. verify you have the top of the rotor making contact with that upper ball on top of the dist. cap, sometimes that little ball contact falls out.

3. verify continuity of coil wire. and verify ends, Maximum resistance: 25 kΩ per cord

I know these are stupid checks but I've had that little upper ball come off a dist. cap before and its just a simple test, before you go any further.

 

[SiRaDuDe]

Test #4: Put meter on 200 ohms, tested the "input" connection on the coil, FSM says 0.3 to 0.6 ohms. I've got a crappy meter that read 3.1 ohms. Then I put the 2 probes together and it said 2.6 ohms. So, I've got about 0.5 ohms.

Test #5: Put a probe on the + of "input" coil connection and - at the wire terminal. 13k ohms. FSM says 9-15k ohms.

Not really sure what to make of this, can you borrow a better meter just in case?

Test 4 did not read right and you had to do some math after reading the 2 probes togehter...
but you did not have to do that on test 5? Both test were reading OHMS
or did test #5 read 15.6 and you did your math to get 13?

 

[SiRaDuDe]

INSPECT CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR RESISTANCE​

Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between the terminals.​

Resistance (NE​

− NE):
Cold: 1,630 − 2,740 Ohms
Hot: 2,065 − 3,225 Ωmhs​

If the resistance is not as specified, replace the crankshaft position​

sensor.


Procedure is in FSM

But PLEASE, Verify Crankshaft sensor is connected!



No Crank sensor = no spark <--- this sounds very likely if all your ign. dist. components check out

 

[SiRaDuDe]

INSPECT SIGNAL GENERATOR (PICKUP COIL) RESISTANCE

Prodecure is in FSM...

 

[jcarter]

Assume the coil is good, now distributor is suspect.

I think you're right. I'll check the tune-up. Ironic, the ONLY part of the project I was confident about was the tune-up, and that's probably what's screwed up. I have the old wires, rotor, & cap just in case.

Distributor: I got pretty good at putting the distributor in right. I'll check the position of the distributor at TDC per the FSM again. That position is not very exact (a few degrees above a bolt).

I did play with the timing to see if that helped, lossened the distibutor, slowly rotated as it was trying to start. I thought maybe I'd hit the spot, but I believe it'll start up at a fairly wide range. Probably -3 degrees to 10 degrees, right?

Also, I will probably check the "gaps" in the distributor itself. Maybe something knocked loose or isn't right. I didn't drop it or anything and kept the old cap on it to protect it, but who knows.

I sure appreciate the feedback. I'll post more after I dig through it a bit deeper.

If anyone who really knows this ignition stuff can give me some easier diagnostics than the FSM, that'd be great. The FSM is more for trained mechanics, then me.

Joe

PS Remainder of tonight is relax & watch some Baseball (Go Cards!). I needed to walk away and think.

 

[SiRaDuDe]

​

​

​

But PLEASE, Verify Crankshaft sensor is connected!



No Crank sensor = no spark <--- this sounds very likely if all your ign. dist. components check out​

This is very simple a MUST to continue... If this sensor is not connected, all will fail!

Just in case.

​

 

[SiRaDuDe]

I've been feeding you '96 instructions..:whoops:

But all of them should apply, mostly!

 

[jcarter]

92 3FE

From now on I'm going to add "92 3FE" to all my posts. I don't believe it has the crankshaft position sensor, but man that made me excited cause it sounds simple.

I am really hoping it's something simple like the dadgummed ball fell out of the top of my distributor cover.

Better meter: It's close enough. Test 5 was measuring k ohms or thousand ohms, so a few ohms of resistance isn't going to matter. I'm pretty sure the coil is good. Why would it break? It hasn't run in a couple of months.

Coil wire: I tested the wire from coil to distributor it was 9K ohms IIRC. Tested the old one to compare, bout the same. I don't believe it's the wires.

Gas: I would like some advice on how to check for gas. I was going to just loosen the gas line at the fuel filter and see if gas spewed all over when cranked. Is there a better way?

Something I messed with: It's got to be bad tune up or distributor. Something I messed with while doing the project which included replacing a piston, so I've had it all apart.

Wild guesses welcome.

Joe

 

[SiRaDuDe]

So you dont actuallay have a Crankhaft Position Sensor..

But the crankShaft position is determined by your Distributor.

Engine RPM Sensor (NE signal): Description and Operation​

PURPOSE​

Engine speed is sensed via pick-up coils in the distributor. This information is sent to the ECU to determine crankshaft position and engine rpm.​

OPERATION​

Crankshaft position is input through terminal G and engine rpm is input through terminal NE of the ECU.


Here is the procedure to test the PICK-UP COIL, which determines the Crank position.

I dont have an FSM but I used ALLDATA for the info...

 

[SiRaDuDe]

When testing wires do it with dist cap attached like this..

 

[SiRaDuDe]

Just in case, after all testing you decide to test your old dest. back.... or decide to re install this new one, and for some reason teh FSM instructions seem to complicated.


Try these step-by-step from allData... DO NOT SKIP ANY STEP, do it from the begining, align to your DTC mark with DIST off and start over...

 

[SiRaDuDe]

And to continue....

If after you have checked the ENTIRE procedure below named Igniter_Component_test, and everythign checks out, instructions say to replace your IGNITER.


I also included the Igniter_circuit_test just to be a bit more clear on some testing steps, (its got bettter pics of one of the tests needed)

 

[jonheld]

Here's some step by step instructions for the 3FE.
http://www.sdsysdesign.com/tlc/images/Strife/3FE EFI Diag.pdf

 

[jcarter]

NO CEL with key on

Thanks Mr. Held,

Was hoping you'd chime in. I gotta get to work, but figured I'd check the CEL. Nope.

I'll follow your write-up tonight and hopefully fix it.

Seems complicated, quick question. What could I have bumped or not connected properly to cause this?

Thanks again,

Joe

 

[jonheld]

The first thing that comes to mind is the fusible links. Something you said in an earlier post bothers me. You said, "I checked the voltage across the fusible links, both at 12.5V".
When you say "across" do you mean you placed the voltmeter probes on both ends of the fusible links and measured across each link and got a reading of 12 VDC? If so, they are open.

In the underhood fuse box, you'll find a brass phillips head screw. You should see +12 VDC when measuring from that screw to the negative battery terminal. In fact ALL VOLTAGE READINGS you do should be grounded at the negative battery terminal when practical. This will bring to light any bad grounds, or bad connections in general.

IIRC, there is no sensor plug that can be removed that will prevent the CEL from illuminating. However there are certain connectors in the engine compartment that will. EB1 is at the very top of that list. 2 conductor circular connector coming off of the fuse box.

Also, don't screw around with a bull**** meter. A decent DVM is worth it's weight in gold. Bad meters will lead you down the primrose path.