Won't start - no spark after rebuild

[jonheld]

If you have spark, then you should be getting fuel as they are controlled by the same EFI circuit. If you crack loose the cold start injector pipe at the banjo fitting JUST A LITTLE BIT after cranking the motor, there should be fuel pressure. As in fuel should spray out. If you're not getting fuel there, then the fuel pump is not running. If you are getting fuel at the CSI, then we need to go deeper.

 

[jcarter]

Sweet spot

We got spark. We got fuel (pulled plugs, gassyyy).

Must be we don't have spark at THE RIGHT TIME! i HAVE TO FIND THE SWEET SPOT!

We took off #1 plug and checked "blow out" and it seemed a little before it should have been. So, we adjustd the oil pump slot and moved the distributor gear one notch up (more in line to "WHEN" spark shoudl occur). Still no boom boom.

Luckily I have all day tomorrow to mess with it. For some reason, I can't get the distributor in at the right place.

One gear too retarded (rotor pointing at the passenger side when it should be pointing at the driver's side), next gear too advanced (rotor pointing at the driver's side side view mirrror when it should be pointed at the driver's side seat). In both positions, we tried moving the ditributor to redo the timing so it would fire up, but wouldn't happen.

We double checked the 180 degree out issue, but "pushes" air and "sucks" air properly.

Tomorrow I plan to let it crank, short #1 to gound with timing light in place, put finger over #1 plug hole, and "feeling" if it seemss like its firing at the right spot.

THAT'S ALL I GOT LEFT. IT'S GOT GAS, THOWING NO CODES, BUT WON'T START!

I DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!

 

[jwilber]

I didn't read every post but I think you said you adjusted the valves also. If you did that with the timing off your going to be all messed up. If your sure you have the timing right now redo the valves. MAKE REAL SURE THE TIMING IS RIGHT this can be a real pita! I was off a tooth on the dizzy it started and idled OK but when I took it for a test drive it over heated which led to a blown headgasket take your time to be sure your at tdc with compression that's the key. When you put the dizzy in you will have to turn the oil pump gear off a little before #1 then it will rotate and drop into place. ..good luck

 

[wesayso]

Are you sure you set the VALVE timing correctly?

 

[jcarter]

Getting distributor in right

It's a 3FE & I gapped the valves with the crank at top dead center & 180 per FSM, distributor is not a variable when gapping the valves.

Stupid plan in my last post. Wife & I had a couple of cocktails before I posted.

NEW DAY, NEW PLAN:
1. EASY - OVERADJUST: take out distributor bolt so can turn past the slot, slowly move the distributor while cranking to see if she'll start. When she starts, I'll turn it off right away. I'll learn where the distributor is supposed to be.

2. Post pics of dist position: Put it at TDC. Post pic of where the rotor is pointing. Rotate by 1 tooth. Post pic.

Mark the distributor at each gear tooth to make sure I'm adjusting by one tooth & not several teeth. How? Pull the distributor and count the teeth, divide 360 degrees by # of teeth, get a protractor showing degrees, mark edge of distributor for each tooth (example, if 12 teeth, every 30 degrees mark distributor).

More to come

 

[jwilber]

Its not that difficult. Set the motor to tdc and drop in the distributor. Just make sure you are at tdc you will get the timing marks twice per rotation same with the valves if you start with 180 out your going to be way off

 

[jwilber]

At this point your not really sure what the issue is so if you just start experimenting your wasting time. I'm just saying get the timing set per the fsm and take it out of the equation them go on from there. With each thing you do you will remove that as an issue until you narrow down the problem

 

[Offroads4x4]

It sounds as though you have fuel and spark.

One question comes to mind. When you rebuilt it was the engine at tbc or tdc when you set the timing chain to the cam?

During rebuild did you off set the slots of the pistons rings 180* from each other from the bottom up/top down? If there is no compression it won't fire.

Does the oil smell of fuel?

Both Have been done before.

There are mobile mechanics that can make house calls. This way they see it first hand. Sometimes a second set of eyes opens a whole new view. The cost of the service call may pay back 10 X in wasted time and money.

Just a thought

 

[jcarter]

Rebuild: 3FE, Block stayed in vehicle, oil pan off, new oil pump, new rod bearings, 1 new piston, all new rings (yes, I checked each piston for ring gap), ball honed cylinders, head to machine shop-new exhaust valves, Cam & crank were untouched.

Timing chain: I think cam & crank are geared together without timing chain, but not sure. Doesn't matter as I didn't mess with this. I believe in 1993+, Z in engine type, timing chain runs cam which is in head; my older 1992 3FE has cam in block, not in head.

Mobile Mechanic: Good tip! I'll see what I can find. Last night had a Toyota guy from local parts store over, he turned out to be a kid who plays with Toyotas, nice guy but not much help. I need a pro.

Oil smells like oil, no gas. Gonna go play with it now. I'll take pics of rotor and post directly.

 

[jcarter]

pics of rotor position

Tried to get pics of TDC, but can hardly see it myself, much less take a pic.

Pics are actual compared to FSM.





Actual pic was not quite at TDC, but close. Put it at TDC, rotor is pointed just a tad "clockwise" from screw hole, whereas FSM says should be just a tad "counter-clockwise" of screw hole.

Adjustment slot: I am a tad "clockwise" from screw hole when bolt is in middle of adjustment slot. I can move so it looks like the FSM using adjustment, but I want to set it up for maximum adjustment, right? Or I want it to look like the FSM with bolt in middle of adjustment slot, right?

Again, sweet spot! If I pull the distributor, rotate 1 tooth, it will be WAY "counter clockwise" of screw hole, where it supposed to be just a TAD.

Frustating. . .

 

[jcarter]

Distributor with marks

Trying to figure how far the rotor will rotate per each tooth of distributor. So, there are 13 teeth, 360 degrees in a circle, must be 27.7 degrees per tooth.

I marked the distributor with "counter-clockwise" a tad per FSM. Then about 30 degrees on each side. Other marks are 90 & 180 for reference.



My problem is, when I install the distributor the rotor points at the "red" marks. So, it's off by 1/2 a tooth?


With it off, I'm rechecked ohms:
NE to Gminus=228
G to Gminus=228
Gaps good.

 

[jcarter]

Yo, anyone out there? Why can't I get this ditributor in the right spot to match the FSM? What could be wrong?

I beleive in the 3FE, crank is directly geared (no timing chain) to the cam, right? I'm going to look at the FSM to see if I can answer my own question.

 

[Kernal]

Was the pinion gear on the distributor shaft ever taken off and can the gear go back on only one way?? IDK.

 

[jcarter]

No, gear was never taken off. The FSM shows how to replace the gear. There is a pin that holds the gear in place, not "through the gear" but seems to have an flange that slides on the distributor shaft with a hole in it for the pin.

Good point. I'll remove the distributor, look at the gear better and see if Ican find something "deformed" on the flange. Maybe the geat "twisted" somehow from the flange?

It's a stumper. . .

 

[SiRaDuDe]

If this is a new distributor, do you still have the old one, just for placement testing sakes?

 

[jonheld]

Why don't you try rotating the crank 360 degrees and then install the distributor again. See if you can make it match the FSM exactly. It's fast, easy and you have nothing to loose.
I have found that if you can't replicate what the FSM describes, there's usually something wrong.

 

[jcarter]

Something is wrong. I wasn't getting spark to the plugs. Double checked spark from the coil which is good. I reinstalled new rotor & cap. Tried it again, got spark to the plugs for a while, then no spark to plugs. Distributor is working intermittently.

I'm going to buy a used distributor and try it. If that doesn't work, I'm punting. I'm admitting defeat and quitting. Sell her and go down the road. $2500 down the tubes trying to get her working again, but it's time to call it quits. Valiant effort, ironic ending, had a good time, see ya in a few years when I buy something else.

Thanks for your help Jon.

 

[jwilber]

Did you ever verify that you have a good ignitor? You can get a new dizzy at 1a auto for $150 comes with new cap and rotor and sure beats parts store prices and a Toyota one is about $600

 

[jwilber]

With the distributor out you need to use a screw driver and turn the oil pump slot clock wise a 1/2 tooth then when you align the gears it will drop into the right place but as Jon said make sure the motor is at tdc not 180 out

 

[jonheld]

If you're always getting spark from the coil (have you verified this?) and intermittently getting spark to the plugs, then the cap and rotor are probably worn out. The distributor generates pulses from the pick up coils that are fed to the ECU. The ECU feeds a pulse to the igniter and the igniter feeds the ignition coil to generate spark.

The distributor rotor and cap simply DISTRIBUTES spark to the correct wire at the correct time. My point is, that if you're ALWAYS GETTING SPARK FROM THE COIL THEN THE DISTRIBUTOR HAS TO BE GOOD.