Won't crank, stranded, almost. (1 Viewer)

[Dan Armino]

Last Wednesday was the first time in over 27 years that my 93 Land Cruiser left me stranded, almost. I was on my way to Lake Tahoe for five days of Mountain biking, and Moto riding, I stopped in Jackson to get gas and when I got back in she wouldn’t start, when I turned the key, I got a small current drop, the radio would power off and then nothing, no starter solenoid click no large current drop, nothing. So I shifted through the transmission a few times, tried to start it in neutral, tapped on the starter ( I was by myself so I couldn’t tap the starter while turning the ignition ) and still nothing. I called my wife at home and had her look up auto repair shops in Jackson but no one was available at any of the four nearby shops until Friday. I then called AAA and was arranging to have it put on a flatbed for the 145 mile trip back home at the cost of $1375, but wait it gets worse! AAA then told me that due to Covid 19 I couldn’t ride in the tow truck and I would need to find another way home. At that point I told AAA to send someone out to give me a jump, I knew it wasn’t the battery but I thought I could at least have the AAA guy turn the key while I tapped the starter with my lug wrench. While I was still on the phone with AAA I turned the key for what was probably the 30th time and it miraculously started up as if nothing was wrong. I then drove to Tahoe, met up with my friends, drove it all five days, had a great time then drove 200 miles home without as much as a hicup. My wife told me it happened to her about a year ago at the grocery store, she waited awhile ( around 10 minutes ) and it started. She said that she had told me about it at the time and I said the she must have been doing something wrong, you know, like the typical male idiot that I am. Anyway I know the battery is good, the fuseable link looks good, the NSS is good and adjusted properly. I’m thinking possible the AM1 fuse or the starter solenoid was stuck in because it definitely wasn’t clicking. Any help is appreciated, Thanks.

 

[brockdeck]

Have you ever replaced/rebuilt your starter? Fusible links? The links can also look good and be bad.

 

[Dan Armino]

I rebuilt the starter solenoid contacts twice over the years but thats it, Is there more to rebuild? The starter motor is extremely strong and isn't labored at all during starting. I will probably change the fusible links, there easy and cheap.

 

[80t0ylc]

Fusible links don't fix themselves - starter contacts are a common problem with the 80 series. It sounds like, from the symptoms, that you need to rebuild your starter again. Especially from the inconsistant time between failures.

 

[Dan Armino]

Fusible links don't fix themselves - starter contacts are a common problem with the 80 series. It sounds like, from the symptoms, that you need to rebuild your starter again. Especially from the inconsistant time between failures.

Do you mean the solenoid contacts?

 

[Dan Armino]

Duplicate post

 

[brockdeck]

Another vote sounds like contacts. Not a bad idea to ever change the links if it has been a long time, they can cause inconsistent issues. I buy two at a time, leave one in the glovebox.

 

[80t0ylc]

Do you mean the solenoid contacts?

I'm not sure if the solenoid is part of the starter, but if you pull the starter out and replace the contacts that are in the case - that's the the rebuild I'm talking about. Do a search here on Mud - starter rebuild - in the 80 series section will give you lots of help if you need it. BTW - 2 rebuilds in 27 yrs is not bad. Sounds like it's time for another.

 

[Dan Armino]

Another vote sounds like contacts. Not a bad idea to ever change the links if it has been a long time, they can cause inconsistent issues. I buy two at a time, leave one in the glovebox.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the contacts are bad you can still hear them slam into each other when the solenoid is energized, which is obvious by the loud click from the solenoid. There was no click at all it was dead silent.

 

[80t0ylc]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the contacts are bad you can still hear them slam into each other when the solenoid is energized, which is obvious by the loud click from the solenoid. There was no click at all it was dead silent.

No, not all the time. When it starts acting up, it can seem like a bad battery and not click.

 

[Desert Dino]

Rebuilt twice professionally got stuck twice at the gas station in the middle of the desert missed the meeting point and had to drive alone at night to the campsite I got a new one (it say rebuild but ToolsRus RIP told me they will send new one)
Amazon product ASIN B000C5YDEW

Unboxing Amazon Denso (REMAN) starter

That is what i got for 115.5$ @Tools R Us once wroth that 1 every 4 starters fro Amazon is not Remanufactured but a new one i dont know it looks like new to me but I am not an expert

forum.ih8mud.com

And I changed the KEY switch a year after

 

[NorCal97]

Maybe a silly question, but did you already try disconnecting and cleaning both battery terminals? Classic symptoms of crappy contact between posts and leads, or elsewhere in the starter circuit. Low fruit, and simple to confirm voltage drop at each connection between battery and starter.

 

[80t0ylc]

Maybe a silly question, but did you already try disconnecting and cleaning both battery terminals? Classic symptoms of crappy contact between posts and leads, or elsewhere in the starter circuit. Low fruit, and simple to confirm voltage drop at each connection between battery and starter.

Not a bad idea, but trust the experience of long time 80 owners, including myself. When it starts doing this:

.......... While I was still on the phone with AAA I turned the key for what was probably the 30th time and it miraculously started up as if nothing was wrong. I then drove to Tahoe, met up with my friends, drove it all five days, had a great time then drove 200 miles home without as much as a hicup. My wife told me it happened to her about a year ago at the grocery store, she waited awhile ( around 10 minutes ) and it started. ..................

It is the starter. You can knock yourself out messing with other parts and components. But, what will fix your rig is either replacing your starter or depending on how old it is, a thorough rebuild of the starter.

 

[NorCal97]

Not a bad idea, but trust the experience of long time 80 owners, including myself. When it starts doing this:



It is the starter. You can knock yourself out messing with other parts and components. But, what will fix your rig is either replacing your starter or depending on how old it is, a thorough rebuild of the starter.

You may be absolutely correct, but I have seen many fully functional starters and alternators replaced to "fix" problems like this. I'm a fan of troubleshooting first, parts replacement second.

For starter replacement you start by disconnecting the battery, and finish by reconnecting a (hopefully) freshly-cleaned terminal & post (both terminals, unless just being lazy). If the cable connection were the real issue you'd never know it following replacement of a perfectly good starter! Happens all the time, and for the benefit of repair shops and parts stores only.

A few minutes spent with a multi-meter or test light to confirm voltage is time well spent - ideally while under load (turning the high-beams on is enough to generate a voltage drop across a crummy battery connection). Low fruit first, escalate only as needed.

 

[Dan Armino]

Not a bad idea, but trust the experience of long time 80 owners, including myself. When it starts doing this:



It is the starter. You can knock yourself out messing with other parts and components. But, what will fix your rig is either replacing your starter or depending on how old it is, a thorough rebuild of the starter.

The most valuable aspect of this site is the experience and knowledge of the members. I've checked everything recommended by you and the other members and I have come to the conclusion that the starter is the issue. Because I have the 2.2KW starter which is no longer available I will rebuild it with OEM parts including the plunge magnet switch, ( which I think is getting stuck and releases once it cools down ) contacts and battery terminal. I almost wish that it would happen again so I can properly troubleshoot it at home with a voltmeter. Thanks again to everyone who replied.

 

[80t0ylc]

You may be absolutely correct, but I have seen many fully functional starters and alternators replaced to "fix" problems like this. I'm a fan of troubleshooting first, parts replacement second.

For starter replacement you start by disconnecting the battery, and finish by reconnecting a (hopefully) freshly-cleaned terminal & post (both terminals, unless just being lazy). If the cable connection were the real issue you'd never know it following replacement of a perfectly good starter! Happens all the time, and for the benefit of repair shops and parts stores only.

A few minutes spent with a multi-meter or test light to confirm voltage is time well spent - ideally while under load (turning the high-beams on is enough to generate a voltage drop across a crummy battery connection). Low fruit first, escalate only as needed.

I absolutely agree with what you're saying and for an 80 that someone has just bought and doesn't know it's history, yes, there's a proper sequence to the troubleshooting. But, most 80 owners know their rigs and the condition of most critical components - starter being one. All I'm saying is - all things being equal, this symptom of intermittent non start of an 80 series has been hashed out on this forum for decades now, and almost always turns out to be the starter. I'm a victim of trouble shooting this elusive problem and have ended twice now, fixing the problem with a starter replacement/rebuild. On our 80's, it rarely shows itself long enough to trouble shoot effectively with a meter.

 

[Wrencher93]

For what it's worth I had a weird no-start issue a few months ago and thought it was the battery. Replaced, still had a problem. Thought it was the starter then, pulled it to replace but found out it was perfectly fine. Ended up being the small connector on the starter that plugs into the ignition wire. Loose/dirty connection. Wiggled it a bit and she fired right up. No problem since. This may not be your problem but it's something to keep in mind because I never would have thought that would have been the problem and spent two days (it was parked in the driveway) messing with the truck only to find that cleaning a connection would have fixed my issue.

 

[desmocruiser]

Good advice on checking the starter wiring, unfortunately where starters are located they are exposed to potential damage. A wise 80 owner had this as his undercarriage inspection each time he was underneath.

Did you change the plunger on the starter as well? I typically do this any time I do contacts for good insurance since it is in my hands.

 

[zukinut]

Last Wednesday was the first time in over 27 years that my 93 Land Cruiser left me stranded, almost. I was on my way to Lake Tahoe for five days of Mountain biking, and Moto riding, I stopped in Jackson to get gas and when I got back in she wouldn’t start, when I turned the key, I got a small current drop, the radio would power off and then nothing, no starter solenoid click no large current drop, nothing. So I shifted through the transmission a few times, tried to start it in neutral, tapped on the starter ( I was by myself so I couldn’t tap the starter while turning the ignition ) and still nothing. I called my wife at home and had her look up auto repair shops in Jackson but no one was available at any of the four nearby shops until Friday. I then called AAA and was arranging to have it put on a flatbed for the 145 mile trip back home at the cost of $1375, but wait it gets worse! AAA then told me that due to Covid 19 I couldn’t ride in the tow truck and I would need to find another way home. At that point I told AAA to send someone out to give me a jump, I knew it wasn’t the battery but I thought I could at least have the AAA guy turn the key while I tapped the starter with my lug wrench. While I was still on the phone with AAA I turned the key for what was probably the 30th time and it miraculously started up as if nothing was wrong. I then drove to Tahoe, met up with my friends, drove it all five days, had a great time then drove 200 miles home without as much as a hicup. My wife told me it happened to her about a year ago at the grocery store, she waited awhile ( around 10 minutes ) and it started. She said that she had told me about it at the time and I said the she must have been doing something wrong, you know, like the typical male idiot that I am. Anyway I know the battery is good, the fuseable link looks good, the NSS is good and adjusted properly. I’m thinking possible the AM1 fuse or the starter solenoid was stuck in because it definitely wasn’t clicking. Any help is appreciated, Thanks.

the causes of your problem have been listed so I’m gonna address something else. Which aaa membership do you have. Mine was towed twice this weekend. One tow was 11 miles or so and the next was 125. All “free”.

 

[nemoblackdog]

Once you do the very basic fundamentals of checking the battery voltage and battery terminal connections, I firmly believe the next step is to apply full battery voltage directly to the start terminal on the starter (where the small wire connects.) You can do this either by running a jumper wire from that terminal up to the positive terminal of the battery or you can just jumper it right at the starter itself from the big power lug over to the smaller wire terminal. I prefer doing it directly from the battery because that way you're 100% certain you're getting full battery voltage on that terminal - no intermediate wires or connections clouding the process.

If it cranks properly when you jumper the starter like this, then it's not the starter or the contacts in the starter but is rather something in the starting circuit. But, if it continues to not crank, then the starter starts becoming a more likely culprit.

But, this is the best next troubleshooting step as it takes no special equipment and can be done in just a few minutes once the DS wheel is pulled off so you can get your hands on the starter from the wheel well.