winching scenario question (1 Viewer)

[jblueridge]

I am very much a beginner.
Twice now I have been in situations similar to the diagram below.
The first time I stacked rocks, ran the cable to a tree (over dirt and rock) then engaged the pto winch.
The rocks slipped out and the winch pin sheared off. That left me stuck in a sort of chute with boulders on each side.
The second time in a similar spot, I retreated.

What is the correct method for winching up and over like this?
Thanks.

 

[gnob]

not trying to sound like an ass here...

Sounds like your winch is not up to the task.

 

[jblueridge]

It is true the Toyota shear pin is thin.
I drilled it out and put in a thicker one.

What I really want to know is there a trick or method of changing the angle the cable pulls at so the winch isn't trying to pull the truck into the rocks but rather up and over.

 

[gnob]

not really.
rig your anchor higher (if it can be done safely)
use an antichaff surface where you have to drag cable on the ground.

 

[80t0ylc]

Also, if you're running the winch from outside the truck, you might run the controller cable to you sitting in the rig and helping the winch by putting the truck in gear and using the throttle. It's amazing sometimes how just a little more traction or even wheel spin can get you over an obstacle that seems on 1st try to be impossible. Be sure to have your hood up for protection if your cable is wire rope.

 

[jblueridge]

pto winch. Have to at least be inside to get it running.
Usually I have the t-case in neutral. I’ll try it in 4 lo next time.

 

[Mark W]

There is a "trick" that can come in handy if you want to lift the rig some as you pull it forward. But it calls for a bit of gear carried with you and preparedness. It is not something you will use often, but we have done it once or twice when going out to recover a rig.

Basically you need to have an "A frame" to set under the winch cable to raise the angle of the line/pull on the rig. There are a couple of different ways to rig it, and a myriad of ways to build the frame. Exactly what you can do with it also depends on if the stuck rig is winching itself or if it is being winched by a second rig.

I could type and type in detail about the hows and whys and all the details. But I am tired (and lazy) so I'm just gonna toss the idea out there for you. Give it some thought and use you imagination and I am sure you can figure it out.

I love my PTO winches, but a big drawback is the difficulty of using power to the tires and the winch at the same time for self recovery. In a "crawling over crap" situation that can be a real handicap.

Mark...

 

[80t0ylc]

Also, if you're running the winch from outside the truck, you might run the controller cable to you sitting in the rig and helping the winch by putting the truck in gear and using the throttle. It's amazing sometimes how just a little more traction or even wheel spin can get you over an obstacle that seems on 1st try to be impossible. Be sure to have your hood up for protection if your cable is wire rope.

pto winch. Have to at least be inside to get it running.
Usually I have the t-case in neutral. I’ll try it in 4 lo next time.

There is a "trick" that can come in handy if you want to lift the rig some as you pull it forward. But it calls for a bit of gear carried with you and preparedness. It is not something you will use often, but we have done it once or twice when going out to recover a rig.

Basically you need to have an "A frame" to set under the winch cable to raise the angle of the line/pull on the rig. There are a couple of different ways to rig it, and a myriad of ways to build the frame. Exactly what you can do with it also depends on if the stuck rig is winching itself or if it is being winched by a second rig.

I could type and type in detail about the hows and whys and all the details. But I am tired (and lazy) so I'm just gonna toss the idea out there for you. Give it some thought and use you imagination and I am sure you can figure it out.

I love my PTO winches, but a big drawback is the difficulty of using power to the tires and the winch at the same time for self recovery. In a "crawling over crap" situation that can be a real handicap.

Mark...

Wow, PTO never occurred to me. Yeah, I read it in the original post, but it went in one eye and out the other Sorry, I've no experience with PTO's, although I always thought they were the cat's meow - unless you stalled it crossing a creek and can't restart the engine.

 

[renago]

The solution that I see is to use the spare wheel as lifting point .
Better to use a strop over the wheel so not to cut the tire . And place it rather near to the car / obstacle .
You will need to reposition the wheel as the car advances in the pull .

 

[jblueridge]

I never would have thought of that. Ingenious!
Good point about protecting the spare.
Have you ever done this?
I read somewhere about someone running the line over a Hi Lift jack.
I don't have a place to carry one when camping but I always have a spare.

I am thinking of switching to synthetic line and ditching the wire rope.
Seems safer since I am out there alone without a trauma medic.

 

[1911]

I am thinking of switching to synthetic line and ditching the wire rope.
Seems safer since I am out there alone without a trauma medic.

It's safer than wire rope if the line were to break, as synthetic line doesn't store energy like wire rope and will just fall harmlessly to the ground if it breaks. It also weighs less than wire rope. Synthetic line is less durable than wire rope if you pull it over rocks, but if you take reasonable care of it, it will last a long time.

 

[REKCUT]

Depending on the distance to the tree or winch point you would use a long tow strap to get a snatch block at the vertical point and then winch up to the point you can get a straight winch to the tree

 

[Jonathan Hanson]

I never would have thought of that. Ingenious!
Good point about protecting the spare.
Have you ever done this?
I read somewhere about someone running the line over a Hi Lift jack.
I don't have a place to carry one when camping but I always have a spare.

I am thinking of switching to synthetic line and ditching the wire rope.
Seems safer since I am out there alone without a trauma medic.

By all means you should switch to synthetic line. However, keep a couple things in mind. Your steel cable will have scored the fairlead rollers on the winch; you need to either replace them or smooth them very, very carefully to eliminate burrs. Same with the drum itself. And don't let anyone tell you synthetic line can't recoil if broken; all the safety procedures you put in place with steel cable should also be in place with synthetic line. With that said, it certainly is much safer and easier to handle.

 

[thegadgetguy]

I think the root of your issue is that you have a PTO winch and can't drive and winch at the same time.

With an electric or hydraulic winch in the scenario you posited, even if the winch cable is pulling the front of the truck more down into the ground than up the hill, it's compressing the front suspension and pushing the front tires harder against the hill, increasing the frictional force (less true if mud is involved, but still).

If you are relying solely on the winch line to pull you up the hill, in this scenario it will put an enormous amount of force on the line and winch as you have experienced. The only way to get around that with the winch you have would be to change the angle of your line as Mark W suggested by using an a-frame structure or equivalent.

 

[renago]

PTO Winch can drive AND pull at THE same time .
No problem with that.
I think to remembre that THE right gear,is 2nd low transfer.

 

[Mark W]

PTO Winch can drive AND pull at THE same time .
No problem with that.
I think to remembre that THE right gear,is 2nd low transfer.

Transmission gear selection does not effect the winch speed-tire speed relationship. High range/low range does. IF there is a gear where the speed of the winch and the tires would be the same... it would only be so for a specific layer of line on the winch. And any change in gearing or tire size will change that.

In the real world... nope.


Mark...