Winch challenge project (1 Viewer)

[Mickldo]

I thought wash with water, plastic tubes ( PVC ) with the syntc rope inside is more easy than do the same thing with metal tubes .. ( rust . ..? )

yep .. plastic tubes .. less secure, but less weight.

The lower thermal conductivity of plastic may eventually melt the rope and/ or the tube if you winch a long time at high speeds ?

I'm not sure about this still. I haven't decided if a tube or pulleys/eyelets would be better.

Maybe a tube would help insulate the rope from engine heat, etc as well as mud, rocks, sticks, etc.

If the right grade of plastic was used I reckon plastic would be OK.

I'm leaning towards an aluminium tube if I go for a tube. The only problem I can think of at the moment is if there is any weld penetration into the tube it could cut the rope.

If pulleys were used though I'm sure friction would be reduced.

 

[Mickldo]

Just had a thought

What if pulleys were used for low friction and to change rope direction but removable lightweight covers were used to protect the cable?

I'm thinking a "C" shape cover to protect the cable as it is run down along the chassis.

 

[denis]

Just a thought : You would also need to consider how you are going to manage rope breakage. The low stiffness of syn. rope may make it tricky to push all the way through the tube. That's why I love andrewfarmers setup, you can reach wherever quite easily.

 

[Mickldo]

Just a thought : You would also need to consider how you are going to manage rope breakage. The low stiffness of syn. rope may make it tricky to push all the way through the tube. That's why I love andrewfarmers setup, you can reach wherever quite easily.

Rope breakage is something I didn't think of. Thanks Denis.

Tube is definitely out then. I don't want to DNF if the rope breaks and I can't thread it back through.

My idea of a "C" shaped cover would still work if they were QD or maybe hinged.

 

[denis]

There are pros and cons for a protective tube housing. If the truck is stuck deep into or onto something when the rope breaks and you can't reach the pulleys easily to push/pull the cable you're still stuck.

 

[Mickldo]

I know it won't be ideal with it set up like that but I think with access through the engine bay at the front and under the tray at the rear it will only leave the short section under the Ute cab that will require a bit of fiddling to get it through.

There is always the option if all else fails to just feed the cable in through the rear and use it as a rear winch only until acces is available underneath.

There are always going to be pro's and con's to every set up but I think that this one suits me the best so far. Keep the good ideas coming, it is great to have another point of view to make me think of the things that have slipped my mind at the moment.

 

[Tapage]

I'm not a rope lover .. I trust in cable. But just in competition all segs count. In my style of off road the time is not an issue.

My best advice .. to keep it simple, maybe cable is a nice selection in this moment.

 

[andrewfarmer]

Some tips:
make sure you have a reasonable distance between the rear pulley and the drum - otherwise the cable will not automatically lay up properly.
put a brace between the rear pulley and the drum - or on a hard pull you will shorten the chassis (BTDT!)
work out how you will manage a shear pin - I don't have one (I know the rope will break before anything else) - but your system might be a bit weaker - I certainly broke a few parts before I got it fully reliable.

for your motor, two upgrades...
HEI dissy - much better, more reliable than the std one.
fit a commodore V6 oil pump, more flow, better oil pressure.

And yes - definately run LPG!

 

[Mickldo]

I'm not a rope lover .. I trust in cable. But just in competition all segs count. In my style of off road the time is not an issue.

My best advice .. to keep it simple, maybe cable is a nice selection in this moment.

I've got wire rope on my 80's electric winch and I don't plan on changing it but for a comp winch setup rope is virtually mandatory.

I saw another good advantage of rope this afternoon. I was re-watching the '06 OBC DVD again for the 1000th time and I noticed one of the teams had a winch failure. The winch seized up and they couldn't move from where they were so they just cut the rope near the hook. If they had wire they would have been up for a big recovery to release the tension on the cable.

 

[Mickldo]

Some tips:
make sure you have a reasonable distance between the rear pulley and the drum - otherwise the cable will not automatically lay up properly.
put a brace between the rear pulley and the drum - or on a hard pull you will shorten the chassis (BTDT!)
work out how you will manage a shear pin - I don't have one (I know the rope will break before anything else) - but your system might be a bit weaker - I certainly broke a few parts before I got it fully reliable.

for your motor, two upgrades...
HEI dissy - much better, more reliable than the std one.
fit a commodore V6 oil pump, more flow, better oil pressure.

And yes - definately run LPG!

Thanks for the tips Andrew.

The distance from the drum to the rear pulley should be a fair distance as I'll have a 107" WB and I'm going to try to keep the winch as far forward as I can to allow access to the drum for "birdnest" problems and for shear pin replacements.

I fit a lot of PTO winches to new HDJ79 LandCruisers at work for Ergon Energy. As part of my job I regularly talk with the manufacturers of the winches we fit. We have been trying to come up with a better solution than shear pins. They have a couple of ideas but shear pins are still the most reliable and cost effective. We will have to see what we come up with for mine.

Yeah, points and the carbys are both definitely going. I haven't decided yet about whether I wan't to go HEI or try a distributorless CDI type ignition. I'll be using Jet Ski sparkplug leads though. And LPG is very high on the list of must haves.

Haven't heard of the V6 Commodore oil pumps being used before so I'll have to look into that when I modify the sump and oil pickup to try and limit oil pressure problems on steep slopes.

Thanks again for the tips. Do you have any more? What would you do differently if you did yours all over again from scratch?

 

[Mickldo]

Just finished reading Andrewfarmers ROTW thread. One of my other ideas for my rig was to set up a fiddle brake/cutting brake system similar to his. Or like the Haultech Traction Control System.

BTW Andrew, Do you have any tips on setting up a fiddle brake/cutting brake system?

They are probably not legal for winch comps but if I decide to do other events I reckon they would be ideal in some situations.

Do you use it as much as you thought you would or not?

 

[andrewfarmer]

BTW Andrew, Do you have any tips on setting up a fiddle brake/cutting brake system?

They are probably not legal for winch comps but if I decide to do other events I reckon they would be ideal in some situations.

Do you use it as much as you thought you would or not?

For competitions I use them a lot!
Normal trail work they're useful sometimes - really increases the turning ability.

You can do what I did and make them air operated - which gives an on or off only option. If you're more coordinated than me (which isn't hard!) or will have a co-pilot, just make them manual with levers - cheaper, easier, and more control.

The only thing I'd do differently (and it's on the list) is an impored free-spool clutch system - mine gets full of mud and is permanantly seized, so I have to wind out the cable in reverse

 

[Mickldo]

For competitions I use them a lot!
Normal trail work they're useful sometimes - really increases the turning ability.

You can do what I did and make them air operated - which gives an on or off only option. If you're more coordinated than me (which isn't hard!) or will have a co-pilot, just make them manual with levers - cheaper, easier, and more control.

The only thing I'd do differently (and it's on the list) is an impored free-spool clutch system - mine gets full of mud and is permanantly seized, so I have to wind out the cable in reverse

Thanks for your reply Andrew.

It wil depend on room in the cab (it is only small) on whether I use a manual or air operated system. Manual will be cheaper, easier but I don't think I'll have room between the seats (that is where I'd naturally want the levers). The air system I can mount on the dash.

The wanting to have a cutting brake system was one of the main reasons for wanting to go for the LT230 T/case, so I can unlock the centre diff and use the cutting brakes for "front burns".

The free spool system is one that has had me wondering too. My thoughts have been to try and use an air operated soenoid(?) to operate the free spool. Either that or a cable sytem.

 

[andrewfarmer]

I have an air solenoid on mine but it still seizes.

I plan to have an internal, sealed system made that sits inside the drom where no dirt, mud etc can get in to cause problems.

 

[Mickldo]

I have an air solenoid on mine but it still seizes.

I plan to have an internal, sealed system made that sits inside the drom where no dirt, mud etc can get in to cause problems.

I just re-read your threads on Gertrude. I'm not familiar with Garwood winches. Do you have any more photos of the winch setup? In particular the air solenoid. (even though it doesn't work).

I don't know what winch I'll end up with but if I can't find one second hand I'll buy one from the suppliers of the winches we use at work. We use ATS winches. Advanced Trailer Spares winches made by Acherfeild Engineering.

I deal with ATS all the time at work so I should be able to get one with the right roation.

Come to think of it the ATS winches are the correct rotation normally. They use a chain block setup mounted to the front of the winch so they change where the shaft joins onto the winch to get good chassis clearance.

 

[Lupdog]

Hey Mick, just noticed that Ozeast fibreglass does a F20 bonnet. Don't know if that will fit your rig and its probably not on your list of priorities but will save a bit of weight.

Lup

 

[Mickldo]

Hey Mick, just noticed that Ozeast fibreglass does a F20 bonnet. Don't know if that will fit your rig and its probably not on your list of priorities but will save a bit of weight.

Lup

Already got one

The problem is though my Fibreglass F20 bonnet is cool it won't fit my F55 ute

Unless I change all of the grill and radiator support and maybe the guards. No problem as I have all the bits.

I suppose the Ute will be different then.

 

[Lupdog]

 

[Mickldo]

Quick update.

Haven't done much to the ol' girl in the past couple of weeks. I've been putting up a garden shed so that I had room to put the Ute in the main shed. Of course once it was up I had to clean the shed up.

I have done a bit of selling of Daihatsu parts lately too. I sold the DG diesel motor for $500 and just today sold the 235/75R15 Kumho M/Ts on Suzuki Sierra rims for $400. Of course once I sold the rims I had no way of wheeling the Ute around so I had to pull my finger out and finish cleaning the shed.

Anyway the Ute is now in there and the tyres are sold now. Time to start work on it for real.

 

[Mickldo]