Why can't an 80 flex like.....

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Bens old 80 with the front control arm issue fixed and the rear modified some flexed pretty well don't you think.

Actually it looks like all of the flex is in the rear. The front hasn't flexed much at all which is why the body is cranked so far over. I'd much rather have a little more flex up front and the body more level w/ a tire 8" off the ground, than what I see there. Flopping your truck into a side hill w/ all 4 tires on the ground sucks....

Here's a pic to show why too much flex is bad:

And the resulting carnage(body shop estimates ranged from $1000-2000 to give you an idea):

Had the truck been more stable and less flexy, the body wouldn't have gotten into the side hill at all...

Ary

 

[Curran]

Be objective buddy. Your story discusses 1 obstacle you had an easier time on.

You are correct . I actuallly though about this before clicking on the submit button. But it was a good description of how the whole day went. I didn't mention the broken U-Joints on two of the Cherokees or the broken spring pearch on one ot the Wranglers that we had to wait for either.

On the other 99, the Wranglers will make it look easy.
BTW: Those Jeeps have 35's on them and will embarrass yours and my 80 in almost any extreme trail. Can we be honest with ourselves?

But this is where you're wrong. I've wheeled with more Jeeps than I have Cruisers and I've never been the slow kid in the group. If a Cruiser owner is getting embarrased by a Jeep on 35s, then there is more to it than the trucks.

Now, back to the point of this thread........flex? Wouldn't you like your 80 to flex like those Jeeps? I would.

Actually, I think my truck needs more lateral stability on side slopes not front axle flex. My ARB Rack will come off this summer and my next set of wheels will be 10” wide with perhaps an inch less backspacing than they currently have to give the truck a wider stance. Given that my truck is locked and I've got a nice set of sliders, I can stomach having a wheel come off the ground every now and then. If you can find a cheap and easy mod to gain articulation in the front, then great. I'd be interested. But I don't think that articulation is the Achilles’ heel of the 80 series.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

But this is where you're wrong. I've wheeled with more Jeeps than I have Cruisers and I've never been the slow kid in the group. If a Cruiser owner is getting embarrased by a Jeep on 35s, then there is more to it than the trucks.

I might be misunderstood in this thread?

Within the capabilities of the 80, I'm not embarassed out there whatsoever against ANY vehicle. Sometimes one rig handles something better, then on the next obstacle another rig has the advantage. Jeepers sometimes drop their jaws on some of the lines I do that they do.

What separates a Cruiser and something like the Jeeps is the fact they can run trails we only dream of because of their size, flex, angles, and the like. Because of this I say they can "bury us" out there. There are so many rock crawling trails out here an 80 can't dream of doing, though Jeeps and Zukes, and the like are out there all day long.

The bottom line is that THEY, JEEPS can run ALL these trails wheras WE CANNOT. THIS is why I say that overall the Wrangler (and the like rigs...40's, etc) is the superior off-roader.

Again though, the thread was about flex. Ben's 80 is amazing. WOW, though Mr. Slee said that took about $10K.

 

[MoJ]

Gotta agree with Jeep size comments. Wheeled with a stock Rubicon a few weeks ago. He did one section that I had to back off of due to size. Probably could of got it with sliders but again, he was stock. They also have a lot less body hanging out into space and ready to get wacked. Love my 80 but there's a lot of times I wish I had the maneuverability and size of a Rubicon.

 

[wob]

The bottom line is that THEY, JEEPS can run ALL these trails wheras WE CANNOT. THIS is why I say that overall the Wrangler (and the like rigs...40's, etc) is the superior off-roader.

Why are you spending so much time comparing apples to oranges? A smaller wheelbased vehicle can go someplaces that a wagon cannot. Duh.

You seem so hyped on Jeeps, why don't we compare the fullsize Toyota LC80 wagon to the the fullsize jeep wagon?

I think my wagon would "bury" this one.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Why are you spending so much time comparing apples to oranges? A smaller wheelbased vehicle can go someplaces that a wagon cannot. Duh.

You seem so hyped on Jeeps, why don't we compare the fullsize Toyota LC80 wagon to the the fullsize jeep wagon?

I think my wagon would "bury" this one.

Don't go there WOB. A Cherokee SUV can do the same as the Wrangler...go onto and into trails an 80 can't dream of. LET'S BE HONEST WITH OURELVES?

I'm fine with this discussion. I was originally discussing flex issues. Trying to make a case that a huge Cruiser can keep up with smaller vehicles off road is a waste of time and a losing battle.

 

[wob]

LET'S BE HONEST WITH OURELVES?

I have always wondered about you.
What do the little people have to do with it?

 

[upcruiser]

The coversation originally was discussing what makes a Jeeps front flex better. This wasn't really addressed. Stock they suck ballz. You keep posting pictures of Jeeps with 5" lifts saying, "LOOK AT THAT FLEX!" No kidding, but show me a picture of a STOCK Jeep, with only the sway bar disconnected. I seriously doubt that it would even be remotely close to the lifted rigs that keep getting posted. If we are posting flexing shots of modded rigs, then its all out the window, and I can post a picture of Gigantor. I have nothing personal with jeeps and actually used to have a CJ5, but, I think your playing Devil's advocate here is causing you to skirt some of the primary questions. If you do not in fact know the answer, that's fine, as I don't myself. So, again, can someone please show me a picture of a stock Wrangler, or Cherokee, flexing with and with out the sway bar connected. I want to see the different amount of flex they can get with their spindly toothpicks.

Most Wranglers that I've seen, lifted or not, don't flex like that in the front, and when they try they bust spring perches.

As far as size, I have no doubts that small Jeeps can have an advantage due to their size, and weight for that matter. For under $1,000 how much lift can you get on a TJ or a ZJ? You aren't going to be running 35's. I'd be surprised to see a 5" lift of any kind for under 1k for a jeep, and thats what is need just to get up onto 33's. I'm too lazy to look this up, but someone making the argument for the Jeep superiority in the suspension department, post up some links or prices to the kits available. I'm curious.

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Shotts, even an XJ(cherokee) is MUCH more compact than an 80. I don't recall the 80's wheelbase offhand, but an XJ's is 101" The 80 is much wider. Cherokee's/TJ's axles are 60" wide wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. 80's are 63.5 up front(don't know the rear) + Jeeps run 5.25" BS stock. 80's run 4.5" of BS, correct? So that means factory to factory 80's are about 6-7" wider at the tires. 6-7" is a big difference!

Ary

 

[upcruiser]

I believe the 80's is 112" for wheelbase.

 

[Arya Ebrahimi]

Oh, and just to throw some more fuel on the fire, here:

That's 3" of lift and discoed swaybar, otherwise stock. Total investment in suspension at the time was $300(used parts are CHEAP).

Ary

 

[upcruiser]

OK, thankyou Ary! So then, I'm assuming the lift that was installed there had no effect one way or the other on the flex in the front, that the only variable is the sway bar. If so, that IS impressive. Now, how about a Wrangler?

 

[upcruiser]

Let me be clear, impressive for the front, the rear isn't anything special though.

 

[upcruiser]

Also, regarding the whole size thing, and I know its off topic for this discussion, but.... The size was the reason I bought my 60 and my 80. The Cherokees are just too small inside for the type of stuff I use my trucks for. Personally, I think the size of the 80 is the best compromise for the wide mix of wheeling that is out there. Especially if you like to go out, self supported for any lengths of time. Good stuff.

 

[T Y L E R]

LET'S BE HONEST WITH OURELVES?

Yeah sure ... lets call SANTA .. I'm game


TY

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

As far as size, I have no doubts that small Jeeps can have an advantage due to their size, and weight for that matter. For under $1,000 how much lift can you get on a TJ or a ZJ? You aren't going to be running 35's. I'd be surprised to see a 5" lift of any kind for under 1k for a jeep, and thats what is need just to get up onto 33's. I'm too lazy to look this up, but someone making the argument for the Jeep superiority in the suspension department, post up some links or prices to the kits available. I'm curious.

SHORTER WHEELBASE DOESN'T REQUIRE AS LARGE A TIRE AS A LONGER WHEELBASE TO RUN THE SAME OBSTACLE.

OK, since some really have issues with accepting the fact that non-Cruisers can be superior off-roaders (let's lose the Cruiser ego?), let's throw the JEEP WRANGLER posts/words out the window and replace everything in this thread with this instead:

"40-series with coilovers, massive flex, 35-inch tires, and it's smaller body"

So, we all got that? Every place on the thread where a JEEP is mentioned we'll replace that with that above statement. I bet the responses are DIFFERENT because all of a sudden we're comparing a Cruiser to a Cruiser.

Give the other brand vehicles the credit they deserve. When I'm on the trail in my decked-out one-of-kind 100-series that cost zillions, I'm giving the thumbs up to everybody else on the trail. Their rigs are just as important to them as my 100 is to me. Just because we happen to luv our Cruisers doesn't mean they're the best thing at everything on the planet. Most of the people I go out with don't give a rats axx about my Cruisers. Most wouldn't trade their ride for anything. The "attitude" or "ego" does nobody any good.

 

[sleeoffroad]

What separates a Cruiser and something like the Jeeps is the fact they can run trails we only dream of because of their size, flex, angles, and the like.

Maybe size, but not flex or capabilities if you compare apples to apples in terms of mods. Remember we started this re: Flex and not size

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Remember we started this re: Flex and not size

Hey, don't steal my lines!

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

How many inches of travel are you looking for? 10" - 12" - 14" or more. Once you go over 12" shocks you start running into big $$. What are of those jeeps using? My guess is no more than 12" travel shocks.

 

[upcruiser]

Shotts, I'll be the first to give credit where its due, and in fact I do. I have no "cruiser ego" as you say. You simply avoided my questions most of the thread. My asking you to clarify the same concept could have been misunderstood for me posturing for the cruiser as the end all, but in fact, I was, and am trying to get you to address the question that I asked you in the very beginning. Your assumptions as to my motives are 100% wrong, so get off your moral high horse there buddy. ;p I respect rigs of all nature, I have my preferences sure, as does anyone. Your posts are of the nature of trying to continually escalate a debate. If that's how you like to spend your time fine, but arguing on an internet forum is like getting a medal in the Special Olympics, you may feel like you accomplished something, but you're still retarded. So, who can find a picture of a Wrangler, with coils, stock, flexing without the sway bar?